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RJ

Is there a [(J X B) X Q]

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RJ

Most of us are aware there is a [(B X J) X Q] but is there a [( J X B ) X Q]? I don't think Patric does this cross, anyone else? And if so how does it look compared to a [( J X B ) X Q].

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

I swear there is a thread for this exact hybrid. I think Tom something was trying this for awhile. Not sure if he ever pulled it off. Gonna do some searching now =) 

Tim not Tom haha may not be what you were thinking right ? 

Edited by OC2Texaspalmlvr
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RJ

Yes there is a long history with Tim, he vanished under less then stellar circumstances. Regardless, he used offspring from the late Dr. Wilcox, which would be if I understand it an F3 ( J X B )  if I have read my history correctly.  So that not really the palm I'm inquiring about. 

Perhaps a [( J X B ) X S] doesn't work for some reason or another? 

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8B palms

Here is a pic of my Tim Hoppers  Jubutiagrus, I thought the JxB was an F2 gift from the late Dr Wilcox's F1 JxB, maybe someone with more info can clarify

IMG_0113.JPG

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Tropicdoc

Nice palm. Should be darn cold hardy too.

 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
On 4/29/2020 at 3:24 PM, 8B palms said:

Here is a pic of my Tim Hoppers  Jubutiagrus, I thought the JxB was an F2 gift from the late Dr Wilcox's F1 JxB, maybe someone with more info can clarify

My guess is your correct on the heritage =) Good looking palm regardless. Can you get a pic of the trunk with something next to it for scale B)

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RJ
1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

My guess is your correct on the heritage =) Good looking palm regardless. Can you get a pic of the trunk with something next to it for scale B)

There is a few pictures of the alleged JxBxB that Tim used. If they're is Jubaea in it, it's been pretty watered down from the looks of it. 

 

Edit just found them from here:

 

 

Tim Hopper JxBxB(1).jpg

Tim Hopper JxBxB(2).jpg

Tim Hopper JxBxB(3).jpg

Edited by RJ
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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@RJ I definitely see the Jubaea in it =) looks like a really robust Butia. With back crossing again with a Butia it should be watered down right. Makes it more likely to set seed I'm guessing. Did Tim ever pull off the (JxB) xB x S 

Edited by OC2Texaspalmlvr
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RJ
23 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@RJ I definitely see the Jubaea in it =) looks like a really robust Butia. With back crossing again with a Butia it should be watered down right. Makes it more likely to set seed I'm guessing. Did Tim ever pull off the (JxB) xB x S 

Butia can flower quite young, Jubaea not so much. So it wold make sense that a JXB would probably flower at a middle of the ground age. @swolf has some spectacular JXB and (JxB)xJ that he obtained from Patric, so you know there is a good chance that they are what are claimed to be. His have started to flower and are considerably larger then the one pictured above. He has also successfully  crossed them with a queen. I'm eagerly awaiting to see how they turned out. :drool:

I have no idea what Tim pulled off, I wasn't around here when he was making crosses. I know some duds got distributed then he vanished. Not sure if folks got their money back or not. In the pictures above it looks like I only see 6 stamen on the flowers, which is what butia has. Jubaea has 18 stamen (I think) and the crosses have a stamen count of 7, 8, or 9. <--- I'm not 100% sure on that though. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@swolf Well im definitely in the market for any (JxB) x S =) I dont believe I have seen the (JxB) x J on here before, I wonder how slow it is ? Hopefully faster then a regular Jubaea , if so I'm in for those too haha 

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RJ
23 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@swolf Well im definitely in the market for any (JxB) x S =) I dont believe I have seen the (JxB) x J on here before, I wonder how slow it is ? Hopefully faster then a regular Jubaea , if so I'm in for those too haha 

That is precisely why I started this thread, I don't think there is a (JxB)xS. If there is I haven't seen it, and that is very possible. B)

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8B palms

So here is a close up of the base of my jubutiagrus (Tim Hoppers) and a close up of some of the J hooks on the tips of the fronds, not all fronds display this, some taller ones are nicer but I can't reach them. 

IMG_0069.JPG

IMG_0065.JPG

IMG_0067.JPG

Edited by 8B palms
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OC2Texaspalmlvr
1 hour ago, 8B palms said:

So here is a close up of the base of my jubutiagrus (Tim Hoppers) and a close up of some of the J hooks on the tips of the fronds, not all fronds display this, some taller ones are nicer but I can't reach them. 

Well that sure does seem like the real deal there. Love it !!! So what happened to the palm to give it the curve ? Kinda reminds me of a Jubaeaopsis 

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8B palms

It was accidental, we had a tropical storm about 4 years ago knock it off a little, I thought about straightening it but it seems to be doing ok, hopefully not something I will regret down the line. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

I think it looks fine , not often you see a very large palm with a curve. 

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necturus

Mine aren't worth showing as tiny, but Patric for sure has made a (JxB)xS. I thought there was some discussion on here about them? They apparently are a slower grow than Tim's plants. Tim's were thought to be (JxBxB)xS or something like that. Recently Dave Alvarez was selling some (JxBxB)xS.

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
7 hours ago, necturus said:

Mine aren't worth showing as tiny, but Patric for sure has made a (JxB)xS. I thought there was some discussion on here about them?

I just ordered one of his (BxJ)xS , I would have preferred a (JxB)xS for sure =) 

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matthedlund

I have some (JxB) x S palms available from a palm hybridizer in Florida; the same so-called 'Super Mule' offered by Moultrie Palms. I have 10 plants in character leaf, large band size.

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8B palms

I believe theirs is  ((BxJ)xB)xS, 12.5% Jubaea, 37.5% Butia and 50% Syagrus, so a bujubiagrus, certainly super hardy, and from their website it looks awesome. 

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RJ
1 hour ago, 8B palms said:

I believe theirs is  ((BxJ)xB)xS, 12.5% Jubaea, 37.5% Butia and 50% Syagrus, so a bujubiagrus, certainly super hardy, and from their website it looks awesome. 

Yes the ones from Moultrie are at least BXJXB. I'm pretty skeptical of any hybridizer from FL that claims to have a a true (JXB)xS mule. I would want to see the mother for sure. 

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8B palms

I completely agree, I think there used to be a Jubaea at Fairchild botanical gardens for many years, not sure how it survived given the sustained humidity. I trust Tim's JxB as it was from sadly the late Dr Wilcox. I had the pleasure of touring the palms at his Gainesville house and those at his other home closer to Alachua, he was such an incredible individual.  He performed many hybridizations so his skill and accuracy are not in question.  It's possible the Jubaea percentage of Tim's might be diluted but I still see the J hooks periodically on the hybrid he generated. But I agree a true (JxB)xS would be a truly amazing palm to have, maybe we could convince the current hybridizing guru Patric(k) Schaffer to try this one. If anyone else has this true hybrid please post your pics. 

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RJ

Moultrie’s parent is from Dr. Wilcox as well If I recall correctly. When I picked up a palm from them I was given the wonderful opportunity of talking with them for some time and given a. Ice tour of their operations. 
 

 

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8B palms

If it is Frank and Elaine, they are really nice, they must be getting into their early to mid 70's, I hope they have passed on their skills to someone else in the family. I recently contacted him about sizes and prices of the super mules, I have not heard anything back, do recall a ball park price?

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Swolte

I got their 'supermule' for about $75 2 years ago. I considered that a bargain. I'd say it was a 5G but I have no record of the size. The palm is huge now.
:)

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DAVEinMB
57 minutes ago, Swolte said:

I got their 'supermule' for about $75 2 years ago. I considered that a bargain. I'd say it was a 5G but I have no record of the size. The palm is huge now.
:)

We're gonna need pics :D

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matthedlund
6 hours ago, matthedlund said:

I have some (JxB) x S palms available from a palm hybridizer in Florida; the same so-called 'Super Mule' offered by Moultrie Palms. I have 10 plants in character leaf, large band size.

These are for sure (J x B)F3 x S. The mother tree is an offspring of a J x B F2 from Merrill. It's a good looking palm. Anyway, happy to sure photos if people are interested. 

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Chester B

I’m interested. :interesting:

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
12 hours ago, Chester B said:

I’m interested. :interesting:

+1 

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matthedlund
16 hours ago, Chester B said:

I’m interested. :interesting:

So first photo is the host tree, J x B F3. Second is the pollen donor, a pretty typical Syagrus romanzoffiana. Third photo shows the hybrids, still young.

FB_IMG_1588487957691.jpg

FB_IMG_1588528039670.jpg

20200503_104327.jpg

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RJ

Does the JxB F3 set viable seeds? 

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matthedlund
1 hour ago, RJ said:

Does the JxB F3 set viable seeds? 

It better, or I don't know where all these plants came from. I'm not the hybridizer, just a nurseryman.

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RJ
14 minutes ago, matthedlund said:

It better, or I don't know where all these plants came from. I'm not the hybridizer, just a nurseryman.

I guess I should clarify. Does it set viable seeds without being pollinated by the queen? ;)

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matthedlund
2 minutes ago, RJ said:

I guess I should clarify. Does it set viable seeds without being pollinated by the queen? ;)

That I don't know, but the presumption is that it does. It's an offspring from a J X B F2 that was self fertile. I can see if I can find out.

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Gallop

Here is my Jubutiagrus for comparison.

3BA14FB0-D5C6-406A-BE18-89D25660842C.jpeg

4A133CFB-BCE1-4B63-9517-DF2E1B0B9434.jpeg

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8B palms

That's a stunning palm, where was you source? How long have you had it, what's the lowest temp it's seen and have you seen any effects? Just awesome. 

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matthedlund
24 minutes ago, Gallop said:

Here is my Jubutiagrus for comparison.

3BA14FB0-D5C6-406A-BE18-89D25660842C.jpeg

4A133CFB-BCE1-4B63-9517-DF2E1B0B9434.jpeg

That's drop dead gorgeous! I hope mine fill in like that 

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Gallop

I’ll have to look back at my notes for source. I’ve had it in ground 10 plus years. It’s seen temps temps down to 21f maybe a touch lower. Freeze lasted a week, my common mules leaves burned. This had no leaf burn. It’s robust hard to tell it’s size from pic, it’s fairly large. I’ll have to get some better pics of it for scale. 

Edited by Gallop

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RJ
2 hours ago, matthedlund said:

That I don't know, but the presumption is that it does. It's an offspring from a J X B F2 that was self fertile. I can see if I can find out.

Don't quote me on this, but my understanding is it take quite a few generations for JxB to be self fertile. So I would assume that the palm pictured above was back crossed with another Butia. Here is a thread with the F1 JxB and even (JxB)xJ's in Florida. 

 

 

And another: 

 

1087377A-6ED8-4BCF-AB81-87E1D8D4381A.jpeg

 

Here is Dick's old BxJ, notice how large it is. 

 

 

Dick Douglas trunk BXJ.jpg

Edited by RJ
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Alicehunter2000

 

 

Here is the Old "War and Peace" thread.....read through it if you have an hour to kill. LOL

Some good info

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
On 5/3/2020 at 6:13 PM, RJ said:

Here is Dick's old BxJ, notice how large it is. 

That palm is Legendary =) 

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