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Remarkable palms of Tampa Bay

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kinzyjr
1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Look at the 2:00 mark.

1 hour ago, Palmaceae said:

Yeah I heard about this guy, he is open for one month during the year, I will have to check it out!

 

I've bought some stuff off of him before.  He's a pretty nice guy.  When I checked out the coconuts he had after the 2010 freeze, a lot of them were just too damaged to pick up at the time.  Had they not been damaged though... pretty good price on them.

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kinzyjr

Some additional information on the palms in the pictures I posted on the first page of the thread:

Dypsis lasteliana (?): near City Hall - This palm can be confirmed as far back as November of 2007.  City Hall Dypsis

Ptychosperma elegans: Downtown near the Publix parking garage.  - This palm can be confirmed back to 2015. Publix Parking Garage Ptychosperma

Archies outside of City Hall: - These can be confirmed back to April 2008.  City Hall Archies

One of the smaller Pseudophoenix sargentii in town, but it was in flower: Has been confirmed to Feb. 2017. Publix Parking Garage - Psuedophoenix sargentii

(Below are not pictured in my initial posts)

Pseudophoenix sargentii in front of City Hall: One has been there since November of 2007. City Hall - Psuedophoenix sargentii

Mystery palm #1: Not 100% sure what this is, but it is a crownshaft palm that may have been there since 2007.

For those curious about cold hardiness observations, these are our Jan. 2010 freeze observations and yearly annual lows according to the data from Wunderground, recorded at KLAL.  Thus far in 2019, our annual low was between 36F and 39F and will hopefully stay that way.

image.png.5381765f64afc5e9f275639126509b09.png

 

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RedRabbit
2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Some additional information on the palms in the pictures I posted on the first page of the thread:

Dypsis lasteliana (?): near City Hall - This palm can be confirmed as far back as November of 2007.  City Hall Dypsis

Ptychosperma elegans: Downtown near the Publix parking garage.  - This palm can be confirmed back to 2015. Publix Parking Garage Ptychosperma

Archies outside of City Hall: - These can be confirmed back to April 2008.  City Hall Archies

One of the smaller Pseudophoenix sargentii in town, but it was in flower: Has been confirmed to Feb. 2017. Publix Parking Garage - Psuedophoenix sargentii

(Below are not pictured in my initial posts)

Pseudophoenix sargentii in front of City Hall: One has been there since November of 2007. City Hall - Psuedophoenix sargentii

Mystery palm #1: Not 100% sure what this is, but it is a crownshaft palm that may have been there since 2007.

For those curious about cold hardiness observations, these are our Jan. 2010 freeze observations and yearly annual lows according to the data from Wunderground, recorded at KLAL.  Thus far in 2019, our annual low was between 36F and 39F and will hopefully stay that way.

image.png.5381765f64afc5e9f275639126509b09.png

 

Your mystery palm looks like a dictyosperma. 

Edited by RedRabbit

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Xenon
48 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Your mystery palm looks like a dictyosperma. 

Looks more like Satakentia imo

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Hardypalms

What happened in the video at 2:00? I see the guy in front of potted Cocos nucifera, is that it?

Thxs

Pat

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Zeeth
11 hours ago, Xenon said:

Looks more like Satakentia imo

Agreed on Satakentia, though the 2007 picture does look a lot like Dictyosperma and I would expect a Satakentia to be bigger at that age. Maybe it was a Dictyosperma that didn't survive 2010 and was replanted with Satakentia? Either way it's pretty cool for a public planting!

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Matthew92
On 9/2/2019 at 12:38 PM, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Wow- very old. I think it's very possible that one could be remaining from when that lot was undeveloped. They don't usually grow that tall unless in a forest competing for light.

Edited by Matthew92

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Xenon
43 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

Agreed on Satakentia, though the 2007 picture does look a lot like Dictyosperma and I would expect a Satakentia to be bigger at that age. Maybe it was a Dictyosperma that didn't survive 2010 and was replanted with Satakentia? Either way it's pretty cool for a public planting!

Also looks like it may have been a cycad. Whoever did the landscaping is definitely into cycads; impressive variety for a public space...nearly all the major genera represented. 

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kinzyjr

@RedRabbit @Xenon@Zeeth

Thank you for weighing in.  This picture taken on 08/31/2019 might help nail it down:

20190831_135453_Mystery_1600.jpg

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RedRabbit
3 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@RedRabbit @Xenon@Zeeth

Thank you for weighing in.  This picture taken on 08/31/2019 might help nail it down:

20190831_135453_Mystery_1600.jpg

I think @Xenon was right about it being a Satakentia.  Great to see one doing so well there!

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kinzyjr

A few of the many clumps of Dypsis in the area.  These are on South Blvd. near Lake Morton.

Link 1

Link 2

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ruskinPalms

Royals

Some Royal palms that have been there a long time. Survived 2010. This is not a warm  area of Hillsborough county... they take foliage damage most years  

 

 

 

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RedRabbit

Majesties

As I've noted elsewhere, there are some big majesty's growing in NW Hillsborough. There must be something different with the soil to where they're able to prosper. I just stumbled upon these tonight and thought you all might want to see. :)

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FishEyeAquaculture
7 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

....some big majesty's growing in NW Hillsborough. There must be something different with the soil to where they're able to prosper. 

Swampland turned into residential.  The water table is probably only 4' down at the most.  If you dig a large/deep hole in that area, it will be filled with water by the next morning. 

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Eric in Orlando

There are Archontophoenix alexandrae and Pseudophoenix sargentii at Hollis Garden in Lakeland that have been there for awhile. Also Pandanus utilis.

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kinzyjr
10 minutes ago, Eric in Orlando said:

There are Archontophoenix alexandrae and Pseudophoenix sargentii at Hollis Garden in Lakeland that have been there for awhile. Also Pandanus utilis.

What is the easiest way to tell alexandrae apart from cunninghamiana?  We have both here and @PalmTreeDude may be right about the palms in front of City Hall.

City Hall - Archontophoenix Google Maps

 

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Eric in Orlando

A. alexandrae have brighter green colored leaves and crownshafts. The leaves are also silvery on the undersides . A. cunninghamiana are more olive green colored in the crownshaft with speckles and leaves with no silvery undersides. A. cunninghamiana leaves are a bit more droopy too. A. alexandrae have white colored inflorescences and  A. cunninghamiana have more lilac colored ones.  A. alexandrae is also slightly less hardy.

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sonoranfans

I have an alexandre triple planted from 1 gallon seedlings(MB palms) in summer 2010.  I covered most of them for the dec 2010 cold front(28x2 with frost).  Given that every exposed leaf was fried these probably arent alive today if not being covered.  I had some small royals and foxtails die as well as foxy ladies.  These would be with them, in palm heaven, if not for the overhead netting.  the fence is 7' for scale.  today my yard has more canopy, including palm canopy so it may take a 30 year cold to take them out.

Alexandre1y2019.jpg

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kinzyjr

@sonoranfans I had one that experienced leaf burn on approximately half the fronds during the Jan. 2018 advective freeze.  Thought it had made it since it didn't totally fry, but it took a dive from a fungal infection after the freeze.  I have another one now, but who knows for how long.

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kinzyjr

Using the ID tips from Eric, I can confirm that the palms in front of City Hall have the silvery color underneath.  They much more closely resemble Archontophoenix alexandrae than Archontophoenix cunninghamiana due to the silver color and deeper green crownshaft.  With this, Archontophoenix alexandrae can be confirmed as surviving 2010 in downtown Lakeland, FL.  Thank you to @PalmTreeDude for inquiring and for @Eric in Orlando providing me with the ID tips to correct my mistake.

20190920_184659_Archontophoenix_alexandrae_CityHall.jpg

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RedRabbit
17 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Using the ID tips from Eric, I can confirm that the palms in front of City Hall have the silvery color underneath.  They much more closely resemble Archontophoenix alexandrae than Archontophoenix cunninghamiana due to the silver color and deeper green crownshaft.  With this, Archontophoenix alexandrae can be confirmed as surviving 2010 in downtown Lakeland, FL.  Thank you to @PalmTreeDude for inquiring and for @Eric in Orlando providing me with the ID tips to correct my mistake.

20190920_184659_Archontophoenix_alexandrae_CityHall.jpg

I’ve been pretty impressed by Lakeland. The urban portion seems to be on par with Orlando for palms. 

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PalmTreeDude
4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Using the ID tips from Eric, I can confirm that the palms in front of City Hall have the silvery color underneath.  They much more closely resemble Archontophoenix alexandrae than Archontophoenix cunninghamiana due to the silver color and deeper green crownshaft.  With this, Archontophoenix alexandrae can be confirmed as surviving 2010 in downtown Lakeland, FL.  Thank you to @PalmTreeDude for inquiring and for @Eric in Orlando providing me with the ID tips to correct my mistake.

20190920_184659_Archontophoenix_alexandrae_CityHall.jpg

Now that is awesome to know! Alexandrae are not supposed to be as hardy as cunninghamiana. I heard they can get beat up by cold quite easily, especially if in an exposed spot. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude

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ruskinPalms

I always found alexandrae to grow much faster in my area but to not be as leaf hardy, absolutely hates any kind of frost. Cunninghamiana might be a little tougher overall but definitely they have been slower and more troublesome for me. I’ve lost most of my cunninghamiana to various bud rot issues. And I’ve found my slower palms in general have more trouble with bud rot. Fast palms for the win in this area! Even if they are less cold hardy overall, you might get more enjoyment out of them between freezes. (Cocos, adonidia, wodyetia, veitchia, hyophorbe, fast dypsis species - slow ones rot, roystonea)

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sonoranfans

HAHA, my alexandre were completely defoliated in that advective freeze, just an intact spear left on each of the 3 in the triple.  They are just gettingn b ack to full crowns of 10-12 or so leaves each.  Maxima and myolensis were similarly defoliated as was dypsis pembana, while the teddy bear and kentiopsis were only 70-80% toast.  Royals were 50%+ burned at 35' tall.  Usually its not so cold up there with a radiational event, but that advective event mostly kills the protective effect of canopy.  So my archies survived the 2018 advective event but a month after they looked like they might not make it.  Then they just kicked in, with maxima and alexandre leading the recovery, myolensis was a bit behind as its a bit slower palm.

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RedRabbit
42 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

HAHA, my alexandre were completely defoliated in that advective freeze, just an intact spear left on each of the 3 in the triple.  They are just gettingn b ack to full crowns of 10-12 or so leaves each.  Maxima and myolensis were similarly defoliated as was dypsis pembana, while the teddy bear and kentiopsis were only 70-80% toast.  Royals were 50%+ burned at 35' tall.  Usually its not so cold up there with a radiational event, but that advective event mostly kills the protective effect of canopy.  So my archies survived the 2018 advective event but a month after they looked like they might not make it.  Then they just kicked in, with maxima and alexandre leading the recovery, myolensis was a bit behind as its a bit slower palm.

It’s interesting to hear your d leptochellos took less damage than the archontophoenix. Mine was burned pretty good in that freeze too, but it is such a fast grower it managed to bounce right back. 

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sonoranfans

the dypsis leptocheilos was not over the house roofline as the archies were and it also had a sabal mexicana(?) and livistona nearby so that palm was more wind protected.  I do remember that dypsis took the 2010 28F with frost and had an intact spear and 90% burn about 3-4" above the ground.  The dypsis and kentiopsis O have tough spears against frost, must be an extra coating of insulation or something.  Royals, dypsis pembana, foxtails, and archies(myola,alex,maxima) dont have tough spears like that.

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Patrick Palms

Hard to beat his prices

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kinzyjr

Roystonea regia: Confirmed 2010 survivor. 

More interesting fact: located in one of the highest elevations in Lakeland near the summit of the hill on Clubhouse Rd.

Roystonea regia: Clubhouse Rd.

20190928_184003_RoystoneaRegia_1600.jpg

Hyophorbe verschaffeltii (?): Present as of May 2011.  Cannot confirm a previous planting date.  Roughly 2/3 of the way up the "big hill."

Hyophorbe - Sandy Knoll

20190928_184715_Hyophorbe_500.jpg

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GottmitAlex
4 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Roystonea regia: Confirmed 2010 survivor. 

More interesting fact: located in one of the highest elevations in Lakeland near the summit of the hill on Clubhouse Rd.

Roystonea regia: Clubhouse Rd.

20190928_184003_RoystoneaRegia_1600.jpg

Hyophorbe verschaffeltii (?): Present as of May 2011.  Cannot confirm a previous planting date.  Roughly 2/3 of the way up the "big hill."

Hyophorbe - Sandy Knoll

20190928_184715_Hyophorbe_500.jpg

That looks like a lagenicaulis.

Beautiful palms.

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kinzyjr
Just now, GottmitAlex said:

That looks like a lagenicaulis.

Beautiful palms.

I was up in the air on that one.  Hyophorbe gives me fits.  If you're right, and I don't doubt you are, that's even more impressive as Spindles are a notch hardier than Bottles.  Definitely not the healthiest, but didn't necessarily expect to find one that lived that long on a north-facing property out in the open.

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RedRabbit
40 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

I was up in the air on that one.  Hyophorbe gives me fits.  If you're right, and I don't doubt you are, that's even more impressive as Spindles are a notch hardier than Bottles.  Definitely not the healthiest, but didn't necessarily expect to find one that lived that long on a north-facing property out in the open.

I was thinking about getting a few spindles for my new place. Underrated palm in my opinion... I haven't seen many large ones though, do you know if there's a reason for that? Maybe a nutritional problem?

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kinzyjr
Just now, RedRabbit said:

I was thinking about getting a few spindles for my new place. Underrated palm in my opinion... I haven't seen many large ones though, do you know if there's a reason for that? Maybe a nutritional problem?

Hyophorbe tend to get potassium deficiency if they aren't fertilized properly here, but under your more expert care, probably not an issue.  As far as cold, Hyophorbe species are hit-and-miss here.  You have the survivor above, but a lot of them took a nosedive in 2010. 

I can't say this with absolute certainty, but I think frost bites them harder than the ambient air temperature.  There was a Bottle Palm (Hyophorbe lagenicaulis) down at Lake Hollingsworth at one time, but that lake sits in a "bowl" and the wind + cold + frost got it in Jan. 2010.  The crown started bleeding and it disintegrated fast.  Roughly 3/4 of the way up the hill from the lake on Cleveland Heights (where it meets Edgewood), a private garden is full of Hyophorbe, Adonidia, and Dypsis.  Guess that's part of the fun.

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RedRabbit
4 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Hyophorbe tend to get potassium deficiency if they aren't fertilized properly here, but under your more expert care, probably not an issue.  As far as cold, Hyophorbe species are hit-and-miss here.  You have the survivor above, but a lot of them took a nosedive in 2010. 

I can't say this with absolute certainty, but I think frost bites them harder than the ambient air temperature.  There was a Bottle Palm (Hyophorbe lagenicaulis) down at Lake Hollingsworth at one time, but that lake sits in a "bowl" and the wind + cold + frost got it in Jan. 2010.  The crown started bleeding and it disintegrated fast.  Roughly 3/4 of the way up the hill from the lake on Cleveland Heights (where it meets Edgewood), a private garden is full of Hyophorbe, Adonidia, and Dypsis.  Guess that's part of the fun.

Ahh, I bet potassium is the problem. I don't regularly see large ones even in warm spots. 

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RedRabbit

Palm Harbor - Coconuts

I found some nice coconuts growing next to Lake Tarpon:

lake_tarpon.thumb.png.7798e2c8cb94b4c2c6682a37133b2119.png

Edit: These have been there since before 2007. :)

 

Edited by RedRabbit
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RedRabbit
19 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Palm Harbor - Coconuts

I found some nice coconuts growing next to Lake Tarpon:

lake_tarpon.thumb.png.7798e2c8cb94b4c2c6682a37133b2119.png

Edit: These have been there since before 2007. :)

 

I just took a second look at the map and these coconuts are surprisngly far north:

518017490_laketarpon2.png.bbbd189451adf94be9f91ff8f6766036.png

These may be the furthest north pre-2010 coconuts on the whole west coast of FL. Is anyone aware of coconuts further north than this? Perhaps Tarpon Springs?

Edited by RedRabbit

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GottmitAlex
3 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I just took a second look at the map and these coconuts are surprisngly far north:

518017490_laketarpon2.png.bbbd189451adf94be9f91ff8f6766036.png

These may be the furthest north pre-2010 coconuts on the whole west coast of FL. Is anyone aware of coconuts further north than this? Perhaps Tarpon Springs?

Latitude?

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RedRabbit
1 minute ago, GottmitAlex said:

Latitude?

28.11N

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Zeeth

Here's a small B. alfredii along bayshore blvd in Tampa. 

IMG_20190929_123507.jpg

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RedRabbit
11 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

Here's a small B. alfredii along bayshore blvd in Tampa. 

IMG_20190929_123507.jpg

I’ve noticed a few BA on Bayshore and was surprised to see them. Did you plant them? lol

Edited by RedRabbit
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SWFLchris
On 9/28/2019 at 11:08 PM, RedRabbit said:

I just took a second look at the map and these coconuts are surprisngly far north:

 

These may be the furthest north pre-2010 coconuts on the whole west coast of FL. Is anyone aware of coconuts further north than this? Perhaps Tarpon Springs?

I know of a group of 3 much taller ones planted behind a house on the water in New Port Richey. No idea how long they have been there though

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