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RJ

More cold hardy mule? Perhaps....

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RJ

So I don't tend to post many picks of hybrids I've purchased from Patric until I get a chance to get an idea of what they will look like. I've always really liked the Yatay mule that @_Keith has that is a showstopper. So I did purchase a few from Patric last year and they are now starting to go pinate.  However in talking with Patric he peaked my interest when he mentioned he had a Yatay X (Mule). Now from my understanding Mules tend to have sterile pollen so it's pretty interesting that patric has pulled this cross off. After a few questions directed at patric and a little digging the mule pollen came from one of two palms that @Gtlevine has in his amazing garden. These mules are the offspring of a huge mule that was created by the late Dr. Wilcox and was sent to HBG in Ca. This mule for some reason has viable seeds, or at least some are. Garry germinated two of them and has them growing in his garden- one of them is the daddy to this hybrid.  (Hopefully I have this linage correct)

 

So I purchased this palm last year from Patric as a 5g plant. As is par for the course, it arrived in excellent shape and I received it in the end of July 2018. I potted it up into a 15g and it has never looked back since. I have not tested this palm in the cold but I would venture to guess given the genetics that this palm is at least a tad but more cold hardy then a traditional mule which tend to be reliable to the mid to upper teens depending on the genetics of specific plant. Given that this palm should be a tad more hardy. It's not as soft as a mule but not nearly as rigid as a typical butia. My hunch is this might be a great alternative to those who can't quite pull off a mule reliably.  I have this plant in 80% sun.  

 

Here it is Last July 25th 2018 in a 5g:

 

 

 

Yatay X Mule 7-25-18.JPG

Yatay X Mule 7-25-18 b.JPG

 

October 25th  2018

BBQ 10-24-18.JPG

 

August 20th 2019

Yatay_x_Mule_8-30-19_b_Low.jpg

Edited by RJ
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Dartolution

Nice growth and beautiful form. 

What is your potting mix, and fertilizing schedule if you have one?

 

 

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Allen

If it's like mine it will outgrow pots in a couple years from now.   Looks great!

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Laaz

I have one of Patric's Yatay mules in the ground here. It did spear pull the winter we had freezing rain, snow & 16F but has fully recovered. One thing I have noticed is that recently it has gotten hooks on the ends of the leaves. If you do a forum search you will find photos of the damage it sustained from the freeze.

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Sandy Loam

So, I am guessing that the Butia Yatay x Syagrus Romanzoffiana type of Mule Palm is LESS cold-hardy than a regular mule?  

 

Wow, Laaz, I can't believe you had such harsh winter weather in Charleston two years in row!  I thought it was never supposed to snow in Charleston or drop below the low or mid- 20s, at the worst.  What a fluke!

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Laaz

Two years in a row? Only Jan, 2018. Last winter our low was 28F.

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RJ
On 8/30/2019 at 9:53 PM, Dartolution said:

Nice growth and beautiful form. 

What is your potting mix, and fertilizing schedule if you have one?

 

 

Nothing special for fertilizing. I tend to actually be VERY conservative with fertilizers.  I use  Jobe's organic palm fertilizer at about half the recommended dose every two months. 

This particular palm is in a mixture of large pine bark chips, pine bark soil amendment chips (just smaller version of the larger chips), I then add some mushroom compost from Lowes that is sand based.  

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RJ
On 8/30/2019 at 11:11 PM, Allen said:

If it's like mine it will outgrow pots in a couple years from now.   Looks great!

Hopefully going in the ground next year. 

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RJ
20 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

So, I am guessing that the Butia Yatay x Syagrus Romanzoffiana type of Mule Palm is LESS cold-hardy than a regular mule?  

 

On the contrary I would venture to speculate it's actually a tad MORE cold hardy then a run of the mill mule. Keith said his laughed off 16, Buffy (Cameron) on this board had his large one pull thought 8F, although just barely, and with help.  I have read other accounts on this board suggesting that the YxQ is slightly more cold hardy then a stadard mule. However, of course YMMV. 

What I find intriguing about the Yatay mules is that Yatay is by far the tallest of the butia's so his cross should make a pretty good statement. It's also makes for a more tropical looking mule IMO.  

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RJ
14 hours ago, Laaz said:

Two years in a row? Only Jan, 2018. Last winter our low was 28F.

My low last year was 24 so that sounds about right. 

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Sandy Loam

What is YMMV?

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RJ
16 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

What is YMMV?

B) Your Millage May Vary .... simply every plant, especially a hybrid can be significantly different.    

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buffy
On 9/2/2019 at 7:46 AM, RJ said:

Keith said his laughed off 16, Buffy (Cameron) on this board had his large one pull thought 8F, although just barely, and with help.  I have read other accounts on this board suggesting that the YxQ is slightly more cold hardy then a stadard mule. However, of course YMMV. 

The 8F was unprotected. I protected it last year to allow additional growth during the winter months and provide protection. The winter lows this past winter didn't require it. I'll probably protect it again this winter in hopes of a really full crown by this time next summer. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 9:25 AM, RJ said:

B) Your Millage May Vary .... simply every plant, especially a hybrid can be significantly different.    

Wow its true you learn something everyday haha I had no guess what ymmv meant.  I'm really digging the look of your yatay mule It so wants to be in the ground =)

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RJ
1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Wow its true you learn something everyday haha I had no guess what ymmv meant.  I'm really digging the look of your yatay mule It so wants to be in the ground =)

Just started clearing my land for the new house so hopefully it will get started here in the next couple months. 4 acres of palm bliss :)

 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
4 hours ago, RJ said:

Just started clearing my land for the new house so hopefully it will get started here in the next couple months. 4 acres of palm bliss :)

 

That is awesome im looking for more room for palms myself 4 acres sounds like plenty of room haha. Cant wait to see pics of your new garden. 

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Matt N- Dallas

I’m growing Patric’s Yatay mule in San Marcos, Tx and it has rapidly grown into a monster specimen.  It was a 15 gal plant in 2015 when I planted it- it now has a thick trunk of more than 8’ and is blooming for the first time.  It’s grown faster than regular mules and seems to be quite a bit larger than regular mules also. 

1855D1B1-432C-4EFF-BA61-E865B122BFB8.jpeg

39E1F594-8651-4DC1-8A83-A437DC80B8B6.jpeg

76D3A2A7-0CA7-4CFA-81C3-075E9F54C30E.jpeg

DC9D9DF6-203F-4DAD-B8F7-804911653366.jpeg

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Matt N- Dallas

9BDB1C40-9A19-40DE-A85F-172AA1515A6F.thumb.jpeg.54031a98657a4bb0a205a88bbaf6e092.jpeg

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Steve in Florida

Butia yatay can bloom at a smaller size.  One of mine has been blooming yearly since it was only 5.5 feet tall.

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Fusca
15 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

I’m growing Patric’s Yatay mule in San Marcos, Tx and it has rapidly grown into a monster specimen.  It was a 15 gal plant in 2015 when I planted it- it now has a thick trunk of more than 8’ and is blooming for the first time.  It’s grown faster than regular mules and seems to be quite a bit larger than regular mules also. 

1855D1B1-432C-4EFF-BA61-E865B122BFB8.jpeg

Matt, nice palm!  Do you have a flowering Butia also?  Good opportunity for some hybridizing if you do!  :D 

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RJ
48 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Matt, nice palm!  Do you have a flowering Butia also?  Good opportunity for some hybridizing if you do!  :D 

That's the kicker. Exactly what is pretty cool about the palm I purchased from Patric, most mules are pollen sterile. For some reason the palm the Dr. Wilcox created seems to have viable pollen/seeds to some extent. It seems that is the exception rather then the norm.   

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Fusca
44 minutes ago, RJ said:

That's the kicker. Exactly what is pretty cool about the palm I purchased from Patric, most mules are pollen sterile. For some reason the palm the Dr. Wilcox created seems to have viable pollen/seeds to some extent. It seems that is the exception rather then the norm.   

My understanding is that the mules are self-sterile but I thought that they could be back-crossed with another palm.  I remember seeing a forum member pollinate a regular mule with Syagrus pollen.  I remember it set seed but don't know if any germinated.  Am I wrong?  I once was given a single seed from a regular mule that had been naturally pollinated by a nearby Butia (supposedly - they were both flowering at the same time) but the seed never germinated so I don't have first-hand experience with this.

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Joe NC
4 hours ago, Fusca said:

My understanding is that the mules are self-sterile but I thought that they could be back-crossed with another palm.  I remember seeing a forum member pollinate a regular mule with Syagrus pollen.  I remember it set seed but don't know if any germinated.  Am I wrong?  I once was given a single seed from a regular mule that had been naturally pollinated by a nearby Butia (supposedly - they were both flowering at the same time) but the seed never germinated so I don't have first-hand experience with this.

I tried hand pollinating my flowering mule with Butia pollen this summer.  Not a single seed set...

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Sandy Loam

Wow, Matt-in-Dallas, your Butia Yatay x Syagrus Romanzoffiana (Yatay Mule) looks fantastic and huge.  Could you possibly post a photo which shows the entire tree, including the full crown?  I am trying to get the big picture of its shape, but I am having trouble with those close-up above.  Thanks! 

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_Keith
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
6
On 8/30/2019 at 3:34 PM, RJ said:

So I don't tend to post many picks of hybrids I've purchased from Patric until I get a chance to get an idea of what they will look like. I've always really liked the Yatay mule that @_Keith has that is a showstopper. So I did purchase a few from Patric last year and they are now starting to go pinate.  However in talking with Patric he peaked my interest when he mentioned he had a Yatay X (Mule). Now from my understanding Mules tend to have sterile pollen so it's pretty interesting that patric has pulled this cross off. After a few questions directed at patric and a little digging the mule pollen came from one of two palms that @Gtlevine has in his amazing garden. These mules are the offspring of a huge mule that was created by the late Dr. Wilcox and was sent to HBG in Ca. This mule for some reason has viable seeds, or at least some are. Garry germinated two of them and has them growing in his garden- one of them is the daddy to this hybrid.  (Hopefully I have this linage correct)

 

 

16 degrees nearly proved to be the undoing of that Yatay Mule.   Two years later, it resembles nothing of its former self.  I am afraid that beauty will never return.  Some commercial entities pulled out their mules and replaced with P. dacts which suffered less damage.

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Matt N- Dallas

Here’s a pic of the yatay mule that has it’s blooms pictured above: 

BA07DBAF-7567-4894-9080-DFAE640473A9.jpeg

389CE2FC-64DE-4B16-A7FC-893439831BEB.jpeg

F0C32528-9A26-4AF0-B207-F5723C29B585.jpeg

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Matt N- Dallas

Here’s a smaller yatay mule that is only two years younger than the large one: 

826F9148-14DD-4E46-A3C6-08501D75AE24.jpeg

0DAB9DA7-589F-4F75-8833-67E0564C9C9B.jpeg

E0105145-612F-4FB0-ABB5-51D2210A3DCB.jpeg

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Matt N- Dallas

Butia x lytocaryum w.:

FFAAB9C2-3E22-419C-904B-95820DE505CE.jpeg

9B291209-890E-4F26-8298-1702EB1C6D84.jpeg

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@Matt N- Dallas You have some nice Mules growing. What kind of protection do you give them ? 

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Matt N- Dallas

Thank you OC2.  I don’t protect them.  They are on their own as far as temps go.  The yatay mule has not been any more cold hardy than the regular mules.  The butia x lytocaryum is more tender than the other mules.  

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@Matt N- Dallas Your mules are in excellent shape, how bad were they hit from the Jan 2018 cold snap. You must have a pretty nice micro climate there. Your lyto mule is spectacular =) 

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Matt N- Dallas

The mules were about 35% burned and the lyto mule was about 90% burned from the early Jan 2018 cold snap.  These are growing in San Marcos, TX 8b so there is no urban heat island, but I have a heavy stand of live oak and juniper to the N & W that help blunt the wind during cold events.  

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8B palms

Hi Matt, you have truly beautiful palms, real show stoppers. So just so I am correct your yatay mules are actually Butia yatay X Mule (Butia odorata x Syagrus romanzoffiana) and not the standard mule, Butia yatay X Syagrus romanzoffiana? Also curious your Butia x Lytocarvum weddellianum, which Butia is in this cross, odorata or yatay? What the ultimate low this hybrid has seen to date?

So I have several of Patric(k)'s hybrids in the ground, probably the Jubaea x Syagrus, has been the most impressive, I have 2, one went in the ground in the late spring of 2014 and is now about 16 feet to the top of the tallest frond, the other languished in a pot and only 6 feet tall despite getting them at the same time. My Butia x Parajubaea cocoides and Butia x Parajubaea sunkha have been incredibly slow and have been in the ground 3 years, I might be lucky to get one frond a year.

I know Patric is probably crazy busy, I have tried to contact him a couple of times this year to check his current availability and pricing but I have not heard back from him in over a couple months. I am curious if you might have a somewhat recent inventory he sent you. Also curious what is the price on the yatay x mule ($225)?

look forward to hearing your comments, thanks

Craig

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@8B palms we must see some pics of your palms in the ground a 16ft JxS has to be spectacular =) Im in contact right now w/Patric putting a order together. No JxS available tho , which is a bummer 

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8B palms

.Hi Matt, you have truly beautiful palms, real show stoppers. So just so I am correct your yatay mules are actually Butia yatay X Mule (Butia odorata x Syagrus romanzoffiana) and not the standard mule, Butia yatay X Syagrus romanzoffiana? Also curious your Butia x Lytocarvum weddellianum, which Butia is in this cross, odorata or yatay? What the ultimate low this hybrid has seen to date?

So I have several of Patric(k)'s hybrids in the ground, probably the Jubaea x Syagrus, has been the most impressive, I have 2, one went in the ground in the late spring of 2014 and is now about 16 feet to the top of the tallest frond, the other languished in a pot and only 6 feet tall despite getting them at the same time. My Butia x Parajubaea cocoides and Butia x Parajubaea sunkha have been incredibly slow and have been in the ground 3 years, I might be lucky to get one frond a year.

I know Patric is probably crazy busy, I have tried to contact him a couple of times this year to check his current availability and pricing but I have not heard back from him in over a couple months. I am curious if you might have a somewhat recent inventory he sent you. Also curious what is the price on the yatay x mule ($225)?

look forward to hearing your comments, thanks

Craig

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8B palms

Sorry posted that again by mistake, so I snapped a pick of my Jubaea x Syagrus, so here it is been in the ground about 6 years, I don't regularly fertilize, but have started to. It has seen temps down to 21oF with no issues. 

IMG_0051.JPG

IMG_0058.JPG

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DAVEinMB
37 minutes ago, 8B palms said:

Sorry posted that again by mistake, so I snapped a pick of my Jubaea x Syagrus, so here it is been in the ground about 6 years, I don't regularly fertilize, but have started to. It has seen temps down to 21oF with no issues. 

IMG_0051.JPG

IMG_0058.JPG

Absolutely gorgeous! 

Wonder how one would do in my 8b climate 

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8B palms

so the new USDA hardiness map has Gainesville Florida in 9a, I still believe we are more realistically zone 8b, so I feel you are also 8b I think it would do fine.  The one thing we don't seem to get here is freezing rain, it will get into the high teens every 10 years or so.

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@8B palms Your JxS is absolutely glorious man I gotta get one of these :drool:

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