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Dartolution

Seeds from the beach, lots.

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Dartolution
22 hours ago, jimmyt said:

You can sun them.  Just be sure not to keep them in a sealed container in the sun = Roasted :rant:  and keep them moist.  Sabals are pretty tough. 

 

I figured if they can survive a tropical storm being washed out to sea, and thrown on shore to dry in salty water and still green up they must be tough as nails. hahaha. 

 

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jimmyt
14 hours ago, Dartolution said:

 

I figured if they can survive a tropical storm being washed out to sea, and thrown on shore to dry in salty water and still green up they must be tough as nails. hahaha. 

 

Pretty tough for sure.  I had buried excess palmetto seed in a shallow trench in a neglected compost pile 2 years ago. It gets minimal water. Look what is growing! Like weeds!

138298BF-8A1B-4502-ADE7-834C9CC07B80.jpeg

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Dartolution
9 hours ago, jimmyt said:

Pretty tough for sure.  I had buried excess palmetto seed in a shallow trench in a neglected compost pile 2 years ago. It gets minimal water. Look what is growing! Like weeds!

138298BF-8A1B-4502-ADE7-834C9CC07B80.jpeg

 

lol yay! next generation! haha

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Dartolution

I thought I would just post an update. 

Still no progress on the Butia seeds, They are still in the container with perlite, sitting on the coffee table on the patio baking. Hopefully that might get them to germinate. 

 

Here is a picture update on the Sabal seedlings that washed ashore. Roughly a month later. 

What do you guys think? 

 

SabalPBeach28SEP2019.jpg

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Dartolution

Here is a closer picture of the largest of the 8.

 

 

SabalPBeachLG28SEP2019.jpg

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Dartolution

Decided to give a 2 month update. 

Ive brought them in for the winter and given half of them to a family member. 

I have 4-5 of them now. 

The largest one is now producing its second strap leaf which is exciting! I didn't really expect that already. 

 

BeachSabel1-23NOV2019.jpg

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Dartolution

The others are quite a bit behind but slowly doing their thing. 

 

BeachSabel2-23NOV2019.jpg

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Dartolution

The double pot. 

There was 3 seedling planted in there. I don't know what happened to the third. 

 

BeachSabel3-23NOV2019.jpg

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Dartolution

Well, Some of the Sabal seem to be stalled. That may be because of winter, or perhaps root damage from when they washed ashore. 

Either way, the Butia seeds have been in a container filled with moist perlite since September and still haven't germinated. 

In an effort to speed up germination, I decided to get a vice grip and pop them open today. 
I ended up destroying 4 seeds of the 9 left. Thankfully several had 2 "nuts" in them each? (Someone please correct me, I know that cannot be the correct term for what I am describing). 

I ended up getting 6 out, and don't believe I damaged but 1. 

Here are some images. Do you guys think they are viable?

The last one is one that split in half. :unsure:

IMG_4248.jpg

IMG_4250.jpg

IMG_4247.jpg

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Allen

I don't know much about palm seed germination but it's a cool project.  I have some Washy seeds in a ziplock bag and can't get them to germinate.

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kinzyjr
42 minutes ago, Allen said:

I don't know much about palm seed germination but it's a cool project.  I have some Washy seeds in a ziplock bag and can't get them to germinate.

How long have you had them?  Usually they are 1-2 weeks on the heat mat here.

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Fusca
12 hours ago, Dartolution said:

Do you guys think they are viable?

They definitely look to be viable - the white embryo in the one that split looks very healthy so I'm sure the others are the same.  Watch for fungus on seed #6 (damaged one) since the embryo is exposed.

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Dartolution

@Fusca Thanks. What can I use to help prevent fungal infections? 

Also, is it okay that I have them half buried in the perlite?

 

@Allen

These would be the first Ive ever germinated if I can get them to. 

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Fusca

There are a couple of old threads out there where the embryo is exposed intentionally to speed up germination of the seed ("de-lidding").  I've tried it a few times myself with some success and some fungus/mold!  :unsure:  Since your one seed embryo was exposed by accident and not under sterile conditions fungus is likely.  I believe the author of the original post recommended spraying the seed with water daily.  I think it's OK to have them half buried in perlite.  I am attaching the threads below which I think are very interesting and informative.

 

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Dartolution

@Fusca Thanks for the references. Searching through all the forum topics can be a bit tedious at times. 

I am spraying them with distilled water daily to rinse them and they are on a seed germination mat set at 90F. 

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Dartolution

:yay:!!!FINALLY!!!:yay:

Finally!!! After all this time! The first of the embryos are germinating!!!

After removing them on Jan. 5th I didn't notice any difference in activity. 

Yesterday I decided to remove most of the perlite in the container I've been trying to germinate them in. I believed that the large amount of perlite in the container was preventing the heat of the seed mat from rising enough. 

Yesterday I removed 3/4 of the perlite, then rinsed the remaining under the tap, and finally in a hydrogen peroxide dilute solution just to make sure its clean. I placed them all back, and put back on the seed heat mat set at 85F. This morning, they've began germinating finally!!! 

@TexasColdHardyPalms @jimmyt @PalmatierMeg @Allen @SEVA @PalmTreeDude @Fusca  Or anyone else, How long should I wait before planting? Any advice? These are basically the first palm seeds I've ever germinated. 

 

 

ButiaOdorataGerm2-19JAN2020.jpg

ButiaOdorataGerm19JAN2020.jpg

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Fusca
3 hours ago, Dartolution said:

:yay:!!!FINALLY!!!:yay:

Finally!!! After all this time! The first of the embryos are germinating!!!

After removing them on Jan. 5th I didn't notice any difference in activity. 

Yesterday I decided to remove most of the perlite in the container I've been trying to germinate them in. I believed that the large amount of perlite in the container was preventing the heat of the seed mat from rising enough. 

Yesterday I removed 3/4 of the perlite, then rinsed the remaining under the tap, and finally in a hydrogen peroxide dilute solution just to make sure its clean. I placed them all back, and put back on the seed heat mat set at 85F. This morning, they've began germinating finally!!! 

@TexasColdHardyPalms @jimmyt @PalmatierMeg @Allen @SEVA @PalmTreeDude @Fusca  Or anyone else, How long should I wait before planting? Any advice? These are basically the first palm seeds I've ever germinated. 

 

 

ButiaOdorataGerm2-19JAN2020.jpg

ButiaOdorataGerm19JAN2020.jpg

I would wait until the first leaf and the strap leaves are pretty long.  Nice work!  :)

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PalmTreeDude

Awesome job! Germinating palms is very exciting! I am currently in a fight with Key Thatch seeds, I don't think I have enough heat for them on my heat mat, which is slowly wearing out. I need a new method. I always wait until the first leaf is starting to pop up or did pop up. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude

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Dartolution

@PalmTreeDude @Fusca So right now they are in maybe 1/2 inch of moist perlite. Is it safe to let them develop that much before potting?

When I do pot them up, how deep should I plant? Also, is a 2 qt pot an okay size? 

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NOT A TA
7 hours ago, Dartolution said:

Finally!!! After all this time! The first of the embryos are germinating!!!

Congrats! Almost exactly 5 months.

The Sabal seedlings periodically look like they're taking a vacation when they're little while building the root system. Patience, just leave them in their pots.

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Dartolution
3 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

Congrats! Almost exactly 5 months.

The Sabal seedlings periodically look like they're taking a vacation when they're little while building the root system. Patience, just leave them in their pots.

@NOT A TA Thanks, and its funny you should say that. 

I have 4 now (gave the rest away). I have kept 3 in the house under a grow light (COB and LED supplement), and left one outside to the elements in the pot on the patio, just to see how resilient it is. 

Of the 3 in the house under the grow light, 1 in particular (the largest one pictured in previous posts) seems to be growing the fastest, and hasn't skipped a beat. The other 2 appear completely stalled and haven't grown a mm since august. 

I was curious if the seeds pictured earlier can truly be identified as palmettos, and if the one that is growing the fastest is in fact another species. 

Thoughts?

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NOT A TA
1 minute ago, Dartolution said:

I was curious if the seeds pictured earlier can truly be identified as palmettos, and if the one that is growing the fastest is in fact another species. 

I'm colorblind and have old man eyes wearing 20 YO prescription glasses that should have been updated looong ago so I can't tell by looking at your pic. HOWEVER, I do have thousands of fresh Sabal Palmetto seed so I'll go take a pic and post it up in the next 15 min or so.

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NOT A TA

Your seedling pics look like palmettos to me with the defined ribs but a lot of seedlings can look similar, especially to me hahaha. Here's seed pics. I sent some seed to a member in Texas who had some seed grown locally there that was said to be palmetto and his were much larger than the FL ones I get here. I collect these mostly in a natural area nearby.

20200119_215142_zps8a454lsv.jpg

20200119_214955_zps3ahloati.jpg

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NOT A TA

Took a trip out back and got the smallest Sabal palmetto I have for it's pictorial debut. It's about 1 1/2 years old and just got moved up from a 6" pot. It'll stay in this pot for years unless I have a use to plant it somewhere (not my yard) or someone wants/needs it. I have four total that are transplant experiment survivors. They're difficult to keep alive if dug up in the wild before trunking so I wanted to experiment on ones at different growth stages and see if it could be done. The survivors range from this one up to one about 4 years old. They're slow when young even when undisturbed from seed.

20200119_223318_zpsd78by0dq.jpg

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Dartolution

@NOT A TA The seeds of the palmettos in question were about that size pictured if I had to guess, however they were already germinated with roots and shoots on the beach when I found them washed up. The seed attached is/was black and shaped like a tangerine (squat and round). 

Here is a picture of it, 5 months of potted growth. 

SabalSP1-20JAN2020.thumb.jpg.724a6a652c553dd4896714421ee1e1db.jpgSabalSP2-20JAN2020.thumb.jpg.93a9003e42da8d74b70d1ba0c5ae7505.jpg

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Allen

These are looking real nice.  

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jimmyt

Dartolution,   have patience.   Like the others have suggested, let the seed develop a leaf and some roots before planting it.  It wants a warm spot to start growing and I bet it is still in that baggie.

You are doing great!

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Dartolution

@jimmyt Thanks. Its still growing in the container for now. I just am concerned about the seeds only having barely a half inch of perlite in the container to grow in. Is that an issue? 

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jimmyt

All the seed need now is moisture and some warmth.  The embryo will live off the endocarp and mesocarp for a good while as a source of food.  Once the eophyll begins to grow and turns green producing chlorophyll it will then begin to require some light to start photosynthesis.   Try to keep fungal growth in the bag away.   That is my mortal enemy.  The perlite or moss is just a medium to support the seed and separate them which helps prevent the roots from growing into each other.  The more you germinate seed the more you learn. Many are easy and a few are next to impossible.  I have my failures too for sure!

jimmyt 

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Dartolution

Thanks @jimmyt.

I have been spraying the container with a dilute H2O2 solution every day or every other day to keep any nasties from popping up. 

How deep should they be planted when they began to form leaf?

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jimmyt

I just plant them up to the level of the seed bottom, trying to get the root fully into the dirt.  I try to avoid getting the shoot(eophyll) below soil level so as not to invite any fungal or adversarial bacterial growth on the delicate new growth. :36_14_15[1]:

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Dartolution

Okay here's a February update:

@jimmyt @TexasColdHardyPalms @NOT A TA @PalmTreeDude @Fusca @PalmatierMeg

How do these look? Is the brown supposed to be there?

 

Unfortunately I lost all but these two to mold despite my best efforts :(

I sure hope these make it. 

 

ButiaSeeds02FEB2020.jpg

Edited by Dartolution
Forgot to add picture

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jimmyt

Yea,  mine do that too.  Just make sure the brown on the roots is not mushy.  That would indicate rot.  Wash your hands or other equipment before you reach into the baggies.  Helps minimize contamination.

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NOT A TA
1 hour ago, Dartolution said:

How do these look?

Sorry, I'm not much help on that topic yet. I've just started experimenting with Sabal palmetto seed germination for fun the past couple weeks because I never had a need to germinate seeds since they're everywhere here. I've got some in a baggie and some in community pots in the attic as well as outdoor.

You can see in pic below why we don't need to start from seed here. You can just pull them up as small seedlings anywhere they start in loose sand.

20200121_142025_zpszcojmmxc.jpg

 

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Dartolution

Here is a fun little update of the lone survivor. I culled the others as they were not really growing, or developing a good root system. 

This one on the other hand has done well, and outpaced all of the others. 

It does appear to have some blue coloring on the leaves, but I've read that it is pretty common to see that in young sabal seedlings. 

SabalPalmettoSeedling109JUL2020.thumb.jpg.6c211fe9a93094b7ef1ab6eee8d54bd0.jpg

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Dartolution

Not that anyone cares because its just a sabal, BUT...

Here is an update on my little sabal seedling that was rescued from the beach! 16 months old! So proud! haha 

I failed at germinating most of the Butia seeds, and the ones that did succumb to mold :( Maybe better luck next time.

Of the 6 or 7 Sabal seedlings 3 went to my Dad, he still has them, while I culled all but the one below. The other 2 never really developed roots, and eventually I gave up on them. This one seems to be the strongest of all of them. 

 

 

BeachSabalSp115DEC2020.thumb.jpg.6ec72096bf54e0957e2ec94fd9023f27.jpg

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Latinmtl67

Nice, i have one also in my living room   Grow so slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww  omg. hehe  what do you feed him?

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JLM

Looking good! My baby palmettos i germinated earlier this year are actually growing at a considerable rate IMO. The oldest one is on its 4th strap leaf. The second oldest on its third, and the latest one on its second. The one on its second leaf has been much slower than the other two. Might get some pics up in here tonight.

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Fusca
1 hour ago, Dartolution said:

Not that anyone cares because its just a sabal, BUT...

Here is an update on my little sabal seedling that was rescued from the beach! 16 months old! So proud! haha 

I failed at germinating most of the Butia seeds, and the ones that did succumb to mold :( Maybe better luck next time.

Of the 6 or 7 Sabal seedlings 3 went to my Dad, he still has them, while I culled all but the one below. The other 2 never really developed roots, and eventually I gave up on them. This one seems to be the strongest of all of them. 

 

 

BeachSabalSp115DEC2020.thumb.jpg.6ec72096bf54e0957e2ec94fd9023f27.jpg

Looks pretty good - especially for a beach rescue effort!  Hope you get another chance to try Butia seeds again next year with better luck.

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JLM

They were playing in the rain all night!

20201216_084612.jpg

20201216_084602.jpg

20201216_084556.jpg

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