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Have I doomed my trachies?


DAVEinMB

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First time posting so first off - hello everyone, I'm a big fan of the forum. 

Ok so here's my situation...

I've just recently gotten into palm trees and have been trying to give myself a crash course on the do's and don'ts and just bulking up on knowledge in general. However some knowledge is gained through making mistakes as we all know.  I got a screaming deal on some mature trachycarpus fortunei palms back in December of 18. I picked up 5 of them for $625 but had to dig up and move them myself. The weekend before Christmas they were out of the ground and replanted at my place.  Relocating them was by no means fun but they all seemed to take. They pushed out new growth and even seeded (months later).

Now fast forward to April... After browsing around online doing some research on pruning and whatnot, I came across pics of trachies with cleaned trunks and thought, what the hell.  Not really thinking about compounding shocks on them I cleaned the trunks of 3 of the 5. A shorter one with roughly 5' of trunk and 2 taller ones each with 10 to 11' of trunk. All 3 of them look rough compared to the 2 I left alone. The fronds are closing almost as if there is a root problem and new growth has slowed a good bit on the 2 taller trees and has stopped completely on the shorter one. Per recommendation of a local tree guy I recently gave each of them a fungicide / insecticide drench but have not done anything else. They got fertilizer a couple months ago and I plan on giving them another course in the next week or so. 

If you guys have any recommendations I could def use some help. I'd hate to lose them...at the size they're at I'd be looking at roughly $1200 to replace each one which is really not an option right now.

Attached are a couple pics of 2 of them right after the trunk cleaning, I'll upload current pics later today or tomor. 

20190421_180728.jpg

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I always thought it looked like a bad idea to strip the trunk but probably not many people have experience with this.    Maybe when the trunk heals if it doesn't get diseased it will do better but then you have to do this more to keep it consistent.  These transplanted trees can take 1-2 years to thrive as they grow roots.  interesting experiment though as you have some with it and some without so you can tell the difference.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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38 minutes ago, palmsOrl said:

Not sure about any health issues but I love the clean look they have been given.

Thanks! They take on a completely different look for sure

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25 minutes ago, Allen said:

I always thought it looked like a bad idea to strip the trunk but probably not many people have experience with this.    Maybe when the trunk heals if it doesn't get diseased it will do better but then you have to do this more to keep it consistent.  These transplanted trees can take 1-2 years to thrive as they grow roots.  interesting experiment though as you have some with it and some without so you can tell the difference.

At this point I'm definitely thinking it was a bad idea, haha. I've seen others in the area that are cleaned up and look healthy but they likely didn't go under the knife shortly after being transplanted.  Below is a pic from last week of the one up against the garage... the angle is slightly different but it helps tell the story. 20190808_180134.thumb.jpg.8d525d1e2022f68b5ad877c4ecd27c50.jpg

 

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I would say for a larger tree like yours it probably takes a good year for them to settle in so in that time I wouldn't mess around with them much, but a little too late for that.  I think the best you can do is make sure they have lots of water and fertilize with a good quality one during the growing season.  As long as the center spears don't turn crispy they should pull out of it, so you may have set them back a little.  From your pictures they don't look unhealthy.

From what I've read it doesn't seem like removing the hair affects their cold hardiness.  Me personally I don't like stripping them I think they should be left alone.  You have to figure the hair is there for a reason.

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@DAVEinMB How hot has it been there recently?  I have heard they slow their growth above 90F.  I do agree with @Chester B that it will probably take them a bit to get established and all you can do is make sure they have the appropriate care for recovery.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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I wouldn't attribute the stress to the frond pruning, unless you were trimming green fronds off. They look great. 

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Longview, Texas :: Record Low: -5F, Feb. 16, 2021 :: Borderline 8A/8B :: '06-'07: 18F / '07-'08: 21F / '08-'09: 21F / '09-'10: 14F / '10-'11: 15F / '11-'12: 24F / '12-'13: 23F / '13-'14: 15F / '14-'15: 20F / '15-'16: 27F / '16-'17: 15F / '17-'18: 8F / '18-'19: 23F / '19-'20: 19F / '20-'21: -5F / '21-'22: 20F / '22-'23: 6F

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1 hour ago, Chester B said:

I would say for a larger tree like yours it probably takes a good year for them to settle in so in that time I wouldn't mess around with them much, but a little too late for that.  I think the best you can do is make sure they have lots of water and fertilize with a good quality one during the growing season.  As long as the center spears don't turn crispy they should pull out of it, so you may have set them back a little.  From your pictures they don't look unhealthy.

From what I've read it doesn't seem like removing the hair affects their cold hardiness.  Me personally I don't like stripping them I think they should be left alone.  You have to figure the hair is there for a reason.

Yea, I def jumped the gun a bit. In damage control mode now. Center spears and fronds look fair as far as color goes but the fronds are all closed up which is what concerns me. I'll get some better pictures to highlight this. 

One of the sources I found when doing research spoke about trachies in habitat having clean trunks. This was due to animals and whatnot naturally stripping them so I figured longterm it wouldn't hurt. I neglected to take into consideration the initial effects.

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1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

@DAVEinMB How hot has it been there recently?  I have heard they slow their growth above 90F.  I do agree with @Chester B that it will probably take them a bit to get established and all you can do is make sure they have the appropriate care for recovery.

It's been a hot and fairly dry summer.  Summer hit like a punch in the face starting with Memorial Day weekend - actual temps near 100 with index in the 110s. Granted it didn't hold those temps all summer but all and all it never really seemed to let up. The trees that have their trunks intact don't seem to be bothered by the heat, or at least not as much. I definitely didn't do these trees any favors so appropriate recovery care advice is what I'm hoping to gain :)

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29 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

but the fronds are all closed up

Do you mean each individual tine or leaflet on each frond is folded shut?  The picture below shows how they start to close up.  If so that's due to drought stress.  Put a hose on them for an hour slowly trickling to ensure a deep watering.

Image result for trachycarpus drought

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2 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Do you mean each individual tine or leaflet on each frond is folded shut?  The picture below shows how they start to close up.  If so that's due to drought stress.  Put a hose on them for an hour slowly trickling to ensure a deep watering.

Image result for trachycarpus drought

That's damn near identical to what they look like. I initially thought it could be fungus/poor drainage related but I doubt that where they are is a place that has standing water issues. Either way they got a daconil treatment... I'll give them a good soak and see if they perk up :shaka-2:

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Ok guys, well I came home with the intent of getting pics showing how bad these trees look and to my surprise they are looking pretty damn good.  The fronds are opening back up and the color is looking better. I'm assuming this is a result of the fungicide / insecticide bath they just received but it may be coincidence... either way here are a couple pics from today. 

20190816_172744.jpg

20190816_174344.jpg

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The smallest one is still struggling tho... this one is in a different area of the yard that I just had to add a drainage system to so there's a few factors working against it

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Yeah the curling is bad in my experience. 

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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As others mentioned I don't think the trimming is the issue.  They are not taking up enough water to match transpiration from the leaves.  It could be because roots haven't grown in good yet, or because the roots rotted (often due to the soil being waterlogged).

Steve

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I’ve had trachys leafs when they were too wet and root issues started. Their roots are very sensitive to wet soils 

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They don't look bad at all to me.  My guess is they lost some roots with the transplant, and need to build a full root system back.  They will be appreciative of coming cooler temps.

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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@Turtlesteve @Rickybobby I suspect the smallest of the three is suffering from some root damage in addition to whatever shock it also experienced from the trunk trimming.  The area it was planted in didn't drain nearly as well as it needed to so it had wet feet for a few months.  That issue has since been addressed but I worry the damage is already done. I guess time will tell. 

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12 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

They don't look bad at all to me.  My guess is they lost some roots with the transplant, and need to build a full root system back.  They will be appreciative of coming cooler temps.

I'm hoping we get some cooler temps sometime this year haha

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  • 4 weeks later...

if another situation comes about where you need to use a fungicide, instead of buying one, get some hydrogen peroxide. hydrogen peroxide is fantastic for plants. it helps strengthen roots and some farmers add it to the water they use on their crops. it can also be used to treat various types if fungus, it can be used to treat powdery mildew and also in the same fashion that you would use a fungicide on a palm to help it recover from frost damage or any other stress inducing process that can lead to pests and fungus attacking the heart. also if you have to transplant a palm ever again i would remove some more of the lower fronds to help the palm cope with the shock. i am not saying remove all of them though because too few fronds is also quite stressful for a palm. and can also make it more prone to disease, pests and fungus and may even lead to sections of the trunk that are much thinner than the rest of the trunk.

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23 hours ago, PlantDad said:

if another situation comes about where you need to use a fungicide, instead of buying one, get some hydrogen peroxide. hydrogen peroxide is fantastic for plants. it helps strengthen roots and some farmers add it to the water they use on their crops. it can also be used to treat various types if fungus, it can be used to treat powdery mildew and also in the same fashion that you would use a fungicide on a palm to help it recover from frost damage or any other stress inducing process that can lead to pests and fungus attacking the heart. also if you have to transplant a palm ever again i would remove some more of the lower fronds to help the palm cope with the shock. i am not saying remove all of them though because too few fronds is also quite stressful for a palm. and can also make it more prone to disease, pests and fungus and may even lead to sections of the trunk that are much thinner than the rest of the trunk.

Awesome, thanks! 

I've used peroxide on some of my smaller plants but haven't tried on a larger scale. It def saved my small mule earlier in the summer. I've read that it's pretty much impossible to use too much, is that accurate?

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10 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

Awesome, thanks! 

I've used peroxide on some of my smaller plants but haven't tried on a larger scale. It def saved my small mule earlier in the summer. I've read that it's pretty much impossible to use too much, is that accurate?

You are very welcome. i think that it is pretty accurate that it pretty much impossible to use too much peroxide from what i have observed. i would do a bit of research just to be safe.  i subscribed to a guy on youtube that goes by The Palmfather. he has so many videos on palms and he know so much about them. i highly recommend watching his videos.

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