Killing royals

[redant]

Anyone murder a royal palm?  I really over planted them and would like a few less. I'd be happy to just have them die and decay rather then pay to remover which just costs to much. Bore a couple of holes and inject roundup concentrate directly into the palm? Any thoughts. Please don't feel bad for them, I just have way to many and moving them is not an option.

Edited July 30, 2019 by redant

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

I like your disclaimer: Dont feel bad for them haha can we get a pic of this over planting ..... 

[GottmitAlex]

7 minutes ago, redant said:

Anyone murder a royal palm?  I really over planted them and would like a few less. I'd be happy to just have them die and decay rather then pay to remover which just costs to much. Bore a couple of holes and inject roundup concentrate directly into the palm? Any thoughts. Please don't feel bad for them, I just have way to many and moving them is not an option.

Salt will kill the roots.

For faster effect: boil water and add a bunch of salt to it. Then pour it around the palms. It will kill them.  The problem is, you'll end up with a toothpick in the ground. You'll still have to cut it down..

[PalmTreeDude]

Nooo! Sell them! If possible, and you can make a little bit of money to spend on different palms. 

[Xerarch]

The drilling holes and roundup concentrate should work. 

[NOT A TA]

How big are they? Pic?

[redant]

There really is no selling or moving these beasts, they are in my back yard and would need a crane and massive truck to move. I have over 100 royals and the frond drop is just to much.

[Xerarch]

Royal jungle looks awesome

[NOT A TA]

1 hour ago, redant said:

There really is no selling or moving these beasts, they are in my back yard and would need a crane and massive truck to move. I have over 100 royals and the frond drop is just to muc

I would try girdling a few to see how well it works and if it's a fast enough demise. I've done it to many other types of trees but not palms. Last tree I girdled was a big Almond and it took about a year to be dead & dry. I have dealt with large Roystonea like yours that died of air girdling, lightning, etc.  My observations of air girdling are that they will drop their leaves slowly with less and smaller new ones forming, then the crown shaft, and the trunk will remain standing while rotting internally. Over a couple years (give or take) you'll end up with a hollow trunk (very light weight) and depending on rainfall where you are the base of the trunk may have as much as 10-20 gallons of water in it. Birds or other critters may make a home in them so just be mindful. First time I went to notch the base of one I was cutting down (not knowing they rot internally) was quite a surprise when water started spraying out. hahaha  Once they've rotted and are hollow they can easily be cut or broken into sections light enough to easily be carried out.

[redant]

43 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

I would try girdling a few to see how well it works and if it's a fast enough demise. I've done it to many other types of trees but not palms. Last tree I girdled was a big Almond and it took about a year to be dead & dry. I have dealt with large Roystonea like yours that died of air girdling, lightning, etc.  My observations of air girdling are that they will drop their leaves slowly with less and smaller new ones forming, then the crown shaft, and the trunk will remain standing while rotting internally. Over a couple years (give or take) you'll end up with a hollow trunk (very light weight) and depending on rainfall where you are the base of the trunk may have as much as 10-20 gallons of water in it. Birds or other critters may make a home in them so just be mindful. First time I went to notch the base of one I was cutting down (not knowing they rot internally) was quite a surprise when water started spraying out. hahaha  Once they've rotted and are hollow they can easily be cut or broken into sections light enough to easily be carried out.



I don't believe that is effective on palms, I have done that to invasive trees though. I have had a royal or two croak from other reasons, the trunks decay rapidly.

[redant]

1 hour ago, Xerarch said:

Royal jungle looks awesome

My back is a total jungle, I love it but got carried away with the royals.

Edited July 31, 2019 by redant

[NOT A TA]

1 hour ago, redant said:

I don't believe that is effective on palms, I have done that to invasive trees though. I have had a royal or two croak from other reasons, the trunks decay rapidly.

Since there's no real urgency I'd try it on a couple, nothing to lose and pretty quick/easy to accomplish. Maybe we all learn something even if it's that it doesn't work or takes too long. I'd try one down at ground level and another up a bit higher on a different tree.

[Joe NC]

3 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

Since there's no real urgency I'd try it on a couple, nothing to lose and pretty quick/easy to accomplish. Maybe we all learn something even if it's that it doesn't work or takes too long. I'd try one down at ground level and another up a bit higher on a different tree.

Girdling isn't effective on palms (monocots) because thier vascular bundles are dispersed throughout the trunk.   You can kill a dicot tree by girdling because you will sever all of vascular tissue which is located in a ring around the trunk close to the outer edge.

[NOT A TA]

1 hour ago, Joe NC said:

Girdling isn't effective on palms (monocots) because thier vascular bundles are dispersed throughout the trunk.   You can kill a dicot tree by girdling because you will sever all of vascular tissue which is located in a ring around the trunk close to the outer edge.

I'm well aware of how monocots differ from dicots. Have you actually tried it? Seen an example of anyone who's tried it? Tried air girdling by digging away soil around the base of a palm?

Exposing the inner tissue and allowing it to dry might kill it.  As I said in my first post I haven't tried it on a palm. I have a healthy mature Adonidia I need to remove so I think I'll experiment.  I'm in a similar situation of wanting it gone but there's no urgency. I could make it disappear with the chain saw in about 15 minutes but I'm intrigued now.

[Joe NC]

1 hour ago, NOT A TA said:

I'm well aware of how monocots differ from dicots. Have you actually tried it? Seen an example of anyone who's tried it? Tried air girdling by digging away soil around the base of a palm?

Exposing the inner tissue and allowing it to dry might kill it.  As I said in my first post I haven't tried it on a palm. I have a healthy mature Adonidia I need to remove so I think I'll experiment.  I'm in a similar situation of wanting it gone but there's no urgency. I could make it disappear with the chain saw in about 15 minutes but I'm intrigued now.

Hope I didn't come off too preachy.  I get what you are saying, basically do enough damage around the trunk to see if you can kill it by any means (like letting in a pathogen or something) but not by the same mechanism as girdling a dicot tree.  I terminate enough palms that I'm trying to keep alive, so I haven't needed to try that approach to end one.  I was just pointing out why it won't be a sure kill like doing the same to your aveage maple or oak.

[NOT A TA]

Na, not to preachy. There are folks who lurk on forums like this and will learn from the diagram you posted. On forums like this we have no idea of the knowledge or background other members have. I chuckled when I saw the post knowing you had no clue on my background. I still cringe every time I use the word "tree" on this forum because I recall the times I heard professors say "Palms aren't trees" and they were never mentioned in any of the curriculum when getting degrees in arboriculture & related fields up North. I find myself using the word plant instead pretty often when posting on this forum hahaha

So, I'm happy to try killing palms by girdling.   I find myself experimenting in my yard like an old plant pathology professor I had. His yard was like his own giant petri dish of experiments and one lab class each semester was a field trip to his home to see all the stuff he was doing. His yard looked horrible with decaying, diseased, and insect infested plants everywhere. The guy had colonies of Eastern tent caterpillars, Gypsy moths, Elm bark beetles, and other problem insects of the era.  Although I experiment a lot I try to keep the place nice looking and hide experiments like the Ganoderma Zonatum I've been growing. The Adonidia is in the front yard though so I may be pushing things a bit further slowly killing a tree (if possible) that's visible from the street. Ya, I called it a tree...But it's gotta come down one way or another so...... I'll hack it up tomorrow and we'll see what happens.

[Merlyn]

My only concern on killing them over time and letting them rot is that you may end up inviting in an opportunistic fungus to your jungle.  100 tall rotting Royals also seems like it might stink a lot, especially if there is rotten stagnant water in the middle.  I know what you mean about the expense of cutting them down, I am looking at close to $10k to take out the last of my dying water oaks in the front yard.  A good climber can take down palms pretty quick though, it might be worth getting quotes.  Even if you have to clear a "drop zone" for each palm so they can chop off chunks and drop 6' pieces, it might be better than letting them rot in place.  With my luck, I'd have about 30 dead ones standing and then have a hurricane come through and dump them all on the other nice palms!

[Rickybobby]

Down south you guys must have tree cutters like we have up north. They just climb up and cut off sections to eliminate. Cranes and huge trucks ?i realize it costs money but we need to think of these issues before we plant 

[redant]

3 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

My only concern on killing them over time and letting them rot is that you may end up inviting in an opportunistic fungus to your jungle.  100 tall rotting Royals also seems like it might stink a lot, especially if there is rotten stagnant water in the middle.  I know what you mean about the expense of cutting them down, I am looking at close to $10k to take out the last of my dying water oaks in the front yard.  A good climber can take down palms pretty quick though, it might be worth getting quotes.  Even if you have to clear a "drop zone" for each palm so they can chop off chunks and drop 6' pieces, it might be better than letting them rot in place.  With my luck, I'd have about 30 dead ones standing and then have a hurricane come through and dump them all on the other nice palms!

only looking to thin the heard not delete it. just a couple to start and see how it goes.  All the ones I would kill are in the back, so maybe 20 out of 70.

[redant]

Yeah they can make quick work of the job but they charge a lot. I'm patient, don't mind waiting for them to croak.

[DavidLee]

If you can’t have someone dig them out and take them off your hands, you should cut them all down except the real large ones with a nice crown. Maybe you can later use the area to plant smaller palms or for something else. A bunch of dead Royals would be ugly. 

[NOT A TA]

Being a climber long term is rough on the body. It's one of those jobs where eventually something will go wrong. Whether a chain saw slips or a branch snaps unexpectedly turning you into a human pendulum that slams the trunk or some other misfortune. So they get paid accordingly and it's a lot of work removing the trees after cutting them down.

At the time I went to school everyone in the arboriculture major was required to pass a climbing test. It involved climbing a 60-70 foot tree, tying in at the top then tagging ribbons tied way out on the ends of branches where trimming would be done within a certain time limit. The first branch was probably about 25 feet off the ground so to get up into the tree first you had to throw rope up & over the branch then hoist yourself up. Harness was similar to rock climbing harness but you don't have a partner to belay for you. I was good at it, so I climbed & trimmed a bit for extra money while going to school. But figured I was smarter than that, so I sold my ropes and all equipment immediately upon graduation so that friends, relatives etc. wouldn't sucker me into risking injury to myself so they could save a few bucks. I continued my education.

Plants are either assets or liabilities. If it falls into the gray area I consider it a liability because it will be one soon as they continue to grow even when we're not looking. That's what happened to redant, they continued to grow and have now become a problem because of the excessive maintenance required.  I see old guys here in S FL that can't pick up a Royal frond because they're so big & heavy so they have to cut them in sections before dragging them out for bulk pick up. Can't imagine doing it for 100 trees plus cleaning all the mess from fruiting.

This happened today so we'll see what happens. I know there's folks here who would say, dig & move or whatever.  But it's not worth the time & work to me. It's too close to the house and I don't want animals being able to get onto the roof from the tree, plus it's arching over the house so it would get harder and harder to remove as it gets bigger meanwhile I get older & older, so it's a liability. I've removed all the large trees on my property, been replacing all landscaping and I won't let anything get taller than I can remove alone myself. 

 

[NOT A TA]

52 minutes ago, DavidLee said:

If you can’t have someone dig them out and take them off your hands, you should cut them all down except the real large ones with a nice crown. Maybe you can later use the area to plant smaller palms or for something else. A bunch of dead Royals would be ugly. 

With soo many tall trees and the standing trunks looking just like live ones you probably wouldn't even notice if 10% were dead.  He's got a dense canopy. The crowns and crown shafts drop then the trunks would just blend in.

[DavidLee]

My opinion I would get rid of them. The dead trees would be wasting space and be a hazard.

[redant]

2 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

With soo many tall trees and the standing trunks looking just like live ones you probably wouldn't even notice if 10% were dead.  He's got a dense canopy. The crowns and crown shafts drop then the trunks would just blend in.

Yep, you would never notice.

[redant]

2 hours ago, DavidLee said:

My opinion I would get rid of them. The dead trees would be wasting space and be a hazard.

taking out 20 @ $500 a tree, (which would be cheap)=10k  or wait for my space. Trey rot really quickly, less then a year.

[redant]

3 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

Being a climber long term is rough on the body. It's one of those jobs where eventually something will go wrong. Whether a chain saw slips or a branch snaps unexpectedly turning you into a human pendulum that slams the trunk or some other misfortune. So they get paid accordingly and it's a lot of work removing the trees after cutting them down.

At the time I went to school everyone in the arboriculture major was required to pass a climbing test. It involved climbing a 60-70 foot tree, tying in at the top then tagging ribbons tied way out on the ends of branches where trimming would be done within a certain time limit. The first branch was probably about 25 feet off the ground so to get up into the tree first you had to throw rope up & over the branch then hoist yourself up. Harness was similar to rock climbing harness but you don't have a partner to belay for you. I was good at it, so I climbed & trimmed a bit for extra money while going to school. But figured I was smarter than that, so I sold my ropes and all equipment immediately upon graduation so that friends, relatives etc. wouldn't sucker me into risking injury to myself so they could save a few bucks. I continued my education.

Plants are either assets or liabilities. If it falls into the gray area I consider it a liability because it will be one soon as they continue to grow even when we're not looking. That's what happened to redant, they continued to grow and have now become a problem because of the excessive maintenance required.  I see old guys here in S FL that can't pick up a Royal frond because they're so big & heavy so they have to cut them in sections before dragging them out for bulk pick up. Can't imagine doing it for 100 trees plus cleaning all the mess from fruiting.

This happened today so we'll see what happens. I know there's folks here who would say, dig & move or whatever.  But it's not worth the time & work to me. It's too close to the house and I don't want animals being able to get onto the roof from the tree, plus it's arching over the house so it would get harder and harder to remove as it gets bigger meanwhile I get older & older, so it's a liability. I've removed all the large trees on my property, been replacing all landscaping and I won't let anything get taller than I can remove alone myself. 

 

Foxtail?  Update us as anything changes.  My son when much younger blasted a hole through the middle of a smallish foxy lady with a rifle. The palm never missed a beat. Kinda looks like an ass crack these days, the palm is huge.

[DoomsDave]

@redant your royals are magnificent.

But 100 is too many. I cry, and I also feel your pain. Those 50 pound leaves get really REALLY annoying after a while.

I'm going to edit some Archies, and I'm thinking of something to kill them to make them easier to remove.

Will advise, after sobs . . . .

[NOT A TA]

35 minutes ago, redant said:

Foxtail?  Update us as anything changes.  My son when much younger blasted a hole through the middle of a smallish foxy lady with a rifle. The palm never missed a beat. Kinda looks like an ass crack these days, the palm is huge.

Christmas Palm

[redant]

11 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

@redant your royals are magnificent.

But 100 is too many. I cry, and I also feel your pain. Those 50 pound leaves get really REALLY annoying after a while.

I'm going to edit some Archies, and I'm thinking of something to kill them to make them easier to remove.

Will advise, after sobs . . . .

I'm going to wait until after hurricane season to try to reduce the population. Don't need sickly huge royals when the winds kick up.  Let me know what works for you.

[awkonradi]

If you do drill holes in them, and add poison, then would you please post details of the process and results here?  If the fronds fall off, and the trunk rots, then I think this method of removing a large palm, in a warm and humid climate, deserves publication.  I think your royal jungle is beautiful, but I understand your need to thin.

[redant]

23 hours ago, awkonradi said:

If you do drill holes in them, and add poison, then would you please post details of the process and results here?  If the fronds fall off, and the trunk rots, then I think this method of removing a large palm, in a warm and humid climate, deserves publication.  I think your royal jungle is beautiful, but I understand your need to thin.

I decided to do 2 test palms today. I used a 1" spade drill bit to drill 4 deep holes in the base of each palm. The spade bit makes a nice clean hole, the first 1/2 inch is a bit tough, then it goes right in.  Palm 1 I added about 5oz Bayer brush killer plus concentrate. https://www.bioadvanced.com/products/weed-grass-brush-control/brush-killer-plus-concentrate  Palm 2 received about 5oz generic roundup concentrate.  I'll update on the results. 

[NOT A TA]

Did you drill the holes at different heights so you don't make a weak point as tissue dies where a hurricane type big wind might snap the trunk? My thinking is if you kill the cells all in the same area of the base quickly you may lose the strength while there's still a lot of weight above the dead/rotting section till the plant dries out. Are the two palms close enough to hit something you don't want them to if they topple?

[Mike Evans]

2 hours ago, redant said:

I decided to do 2 test palms today. I used a 1" spade drill bit to drill 4 deep holes in the base of each palm. The spade bit makes a nice clean hole, the first 1/2 inch is a bit tough, then it goes right in.  Palm 1 I added about 5oz Bayer brush killer plus concentrate. https://www.bioadvanced.com/products/weed-grass-brush-control/brush-killer-plus-concentrate  Palm 2 received about 5oz generic roundup concentrate.  I'll update on the results. 

I planted ~80 royals when I started my garden and soon found out there were too many.  I have killed many of them over the years.  First I cut huge holes (8" dia) completely through the trunk in multiple locations.  Over a year and a half later, it looked like nothing happened to them, completely healthy.  Then I drilled 1, 1" hole into trunk and poured full strength glyphosate (roundup).  The older leaves die first and slowly fall off, then the entire crown will fall off after it is dead and brown.  That makes it easy to get rid of.  After about another year the trunk will rot, turn completely hollow, then fall over.  You can cut a wedge in it and push it over when you are ready.  Makes good mulch, since it will flatten out.  I also cut some down while alive.  The logs are big and heavy and makes it hard to move.  The best way I found it to top the crown w/ chainsaw.  The trunk will stay strong and not rot for years and years.  It makes a good woodpecker nest in the garden.  I have those big redheaded woodpeckers crawling around in them looking for bugs.  That makes a garden.

[Mike Evans]

Here is a pic of the woodpecker trunk.  I topped it ~4 - 5 years ago and it is still strong.  When using roundup, they rot fast.

 

 

 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Anyone ever had a tiki made out of an old palm trunk ? I always thought that would be cool and give even more jungle feel =) 

[GottmitAlex]

43 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Anyone ever had a tiki made out of an old palm trunk ? I always thought that would be cool and give even more jungle feel =) 

No round-up here. Just cut off too many leaf bases. (We were eventually going to cut the Filibusta down. It was getting too tall, too armed and at 16 ft height, It was difficult to trim. ) So once it went Kaput (literally), we left the dragon fruit cacti take over. Now it's a dragon fruit palm tree.

[redant]

20 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

Did you drill the holes at different heights so you don't make a weak point as tissue dies where a hurricane type big wind might snap the trunk? My thinking is if you kill the cells all in the same area of the base quickly you may lose the strength while there's still a lot of weight above the dead/rotting section till the plant dries out. Are the two palms close enough to hit something you don't want them to if they topple?

The holes are at the base of both, they are far enough away they can topple away.

[redant]

18 hours ago, Mike Evans said:

I planted ~80 royals when I started my garden and soon found out there were too many.  I have killed many of them over the years.  First I cut huge holes (8" dia) completely through the trunk in multiple locations.  Over a year and a half later, it looked like nothing happened to them, completely healthy.  Then I drilled 1, 1" hole into trunk and poured full strength glyphosate (roundup).  The older leaves die first and slowly fall off, then the entire crown will fall off after it is dead and brown.  That makes it easy to get rid of.  After about another year the trunk will rot, turn completely hollow, then fall over.  You can cut a wedge in it and push it over when you are ready.  Makes good mulch, since it will flatten out.  I also cut some down while alive.  The logs are big and heavy and makes it hard to move.  The best way I found it to top the crown w/ chainsaw.  The trunk will stay strong and not rot for years and years.  It makes a good woodpecker nest in the garden.  I have those big redheaded woodpeckers crawling around in them looking for bugs.  That makes a garden.

Good info, sounds like the roundup trick will work great for me. I'd prefer they rot away as soon as possible. I have some dead slash pine I leave up for the wood peckers.

[redant]

13 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Anyone ever had a tiki made out of an old palm trunk ? I always thought that would be cool and give even more jungle feel =) 

Palm wood just rots and usually rather quickly.