Z8a Chamaerops humilis questions/experience

[Dartolution]

Good Evening all, 

 

Im new here and just would like some feedback on everyones experiences with this species. 

 

I have 3 specimens, all purchased from LOWES in the blue pots (you know the ones).

1 is about 2 yrs old (meaning I've had it for 2 years). Last winter I kept it inside in a roughly 10 gallon pot. Over the last year it has grown well, albeit slowly.

The other two I purchased around april this year and are smaller. 

 

After relandscaping my entire property I decided to plant all of these in select locations. I am in Calera, Alabama, zone 8a I believe. 

They are all planted in a south facing back yard, and get 8+ hrs of direct sunlight a day. 

 

I planted them in local soil amended with compost, sand, and garden soil. Their soil is fairly loamy and sandy.  These were planted around mid April, and recently I checked and see new white root growth developing close to the surface. 

 

I also amended each of their holes using Dr. Earths exotic palm blend. 

 

Does anyone have experience with these guys growing in my zone/climate? 

If so, what is your experience with them, and if you have any tips I would greatly appreciate these. Im aware they are a clumping species, and growth is usually slow, but I have read reports of anywhere between moderate and very slow. 

I also bought some Jobes Palm fertilizer spikes, but I haven't used these yet. 

I have mostly been watering them using facet water/rain water, or compost/earthworm castings teas.

 

 

I'll see if I can get some pictures here. 

 

 

 

[Dartolution]

Here are some pictures I took today. It's overcast here right now. 

Heres the smallest one:

[Dartolution]

another of the small one

[Dartolution]

"medium" sized of the 3. 

[Dartolution]

"medium" number 2 picture

[Dartolution]

and the oldest of the 3:

[Dartolution]

Last of the oldest:

[sevapalms]

I have had around 4 months of experience with this palm. Mine was planted in the fall of 2017, which was definitely a mistake. I should’ve waited until the next spring. In early January 2018 there was a blizzard, and temperatures stayed below freezing for around 3-4 days. It turned mostly brown and died. Part of the issue was that it was in a low spot and when the snow melted, it was sitting in a puddle. I assume that they like well draining soil. It sounds like your soil is good, and the palms will likely like the sun. I don’t think the Deep South gets prolonged extreme cold, which these palms seem to hate, so your palm should be good as long as it doesn’t drop below the low teens, from what I’ve heard. Good luck!

Edited June 30, 2019 by sevapalms
more detailed

[Steve in Florida]

Stay away from the Jobes fertilizer spikes.  You want a balanced blend  as close to a 3-1-3 ratio as possible with micronutrients.

[Flow]

Although not exactly comparable, our winters are often 8a too. Anything below -8/-10C for a longer period of time is risky with these and protection is advisable although they can survive as low as -15C. But it all depends on many factors, i.e. duration of freeze, positive temperatures the next day, microclimate, etc..

I found that starting with a slightly larger plant that has some trunk really pays off. Mine has doubled in size since I've had it (2012). It stands a little over 2m tall (tips of the newest leaves). Here's a pic from May:

[Joe NC]

Z8a in SE NC.

I've killed 5 various green leaf ones.  3 from blue pot specials, 2 from other sources.  They seem to really hate what I have to offer them (heavy clay soil, wet winters).  However, I have 3 blue leaf forms that have showed only deformed spears after the worst winters.  I've thrown a tarp over them a few times when freezing rain was forecast, but other than that no special treatment. 

[Allen]

I don't have experience with them but if these are your only palms why not try a Trachy, Palmetto or Butia in there.  The Trachy should be your toughest.

[RyManUtah]

They are pretty hardy if they are dry when it’s cold.  They like sun and very well draining soil. There could be some damage in the low teens, especially if it is wet at all. That being said I’ve seen some “dead” ones pop up new trunks from the base after spear pull in the single digits on the main trunks. They will get hardier with age. 

They do sucker. These can be cut off easily when young if you want a certain number, will grow into a wall, etc. 

There are several specimens around in Z8a here. The larger ones aren’t even phased by winter anymore. They are very drought tolerant. We have very little natural rain water, and these tend to do just fine with a deep watering every week or two. They like to dry out a little, especially in the winter 

[Dartolution]

@sevapalms We usually don't get freezing temperatures that last long. May have a stray night or two February that dips in the teens, but these nights are few and far between usually. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

Stay away from the Jobes fertilizer spikes.  You want a balanced blend  as close to a 3-1-3 ratio as possible with micronutrients.

What fertilizer would you recommend? These are 10-5-10 NPK, and have Mg, S, Cl, CU, Fe, Mn, Zn  all in them too... ? They had really good reviews. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Flow said:

Although not exactly comparable, our winters are often 8a too. Anything below -8/-10C for a longer period of time is risky with these and protection is advisable although they can survive as low as -15C. But it all depends on many factors, i.e. duration of freeze, positive temperatures the next day, microclimate, etc..

I found that starting with a slightly larger plant that has some trunk really pays off. Mine has doubled in size since I've had it (2012). It stands a little over 2m tall (tips of the newest leaves). Here's a pic from May:

 

Beautiful specimen. 

 

6 hours ago, Allen said:

I don't have experience with them but if these are your only palms why not try a Trachy, Palmetto or Butia in there.  The Trachy should be your toughest.

 

Ideally I would like a sabal, but I have been unable to source one at a reasonable price. 

Also Trachys here are extremely expensive, with even small ones being several hundred dollars. I have yet to see one in a blue bucket yet. 

 

5 hours ago, Ryagra said:

They are pretty hardy if they are dry when it’s cold.  They like sun and very well draining soil. There could be some damage in the low teens, especially if it is wet at all. That being said I’ve seen some “dead” ones pop up new trunks from the base after spear pull in the single digits on the main trunks. They will get hardier with age. 

They do sucker. These can be cut off easily when young if you want a certain number, will grow into a wall, etc. 

There are several specimens around in Z8a here. The larger ones aren’t even phased by winter anymore. They are very drought tolerant. We have very little natural rain water, and these tend to do just fine with a deep watering every week or two. They like to dry out a little, especially in the winter 

 

We have some pretty wet cold winters, however they are usually barely 3 months. Typical winters here are in the mid/high 50's during the day, overcast, damp, and usually mid 40's or 30's at night. The typical temp range for the area annually is between 36F - 90F. 

Snow if fairly rare, happening only 1 or 2 days every few years. Cold snaps are the same below freezing, and usually happening in late january and february. 

 

Im hoping that adding sand to the soil mix will help with the winters here. 

 

Thoughts?

[RyManUtah]

6 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

 

We have some pretty wet cold winters, however they are usually barely 3 months. Typical winters here are in the mid/high 50's during the day, overcast, damp, and usually mid 40's or 30's at night. The typical temp range for the area annually is between 36F - 90F. 

Snow if fairly rare, happening only 1 or 2 days every few years. Cold snaps are the same below freezing, and usually happening in late january and february. 

 

Im hoping that adding sand to the soil mix will help with the winters here. 

 

Thoughts

 

Sand mixed with soil is pretty ideal. I helps the roots not sit in water. Being that wet in the winter, I would Make sure to cover the bud if it gets close to freezing so water doesn’t get inside the crown. Ice in the growth crown will make it extremely less hardy. Overall I don’t think your weather will be a problem. They are all over the place here; average winter is 20s/teens at night and 40/50 during the day. Ideally they will grow really well when it’s close to 90 degrees. The heat isnt much of a problem. We were over 115F as a high for a few weeks last summer. 

[Dartolution]

27 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

Sand mixed with soil is pretty ideal. I helps the roots not sit in water. Being that wet in the winter, I would Make sure to cover the bud if it gets close to freezing so water doesn’t get inside the crown. Ice in the growth crown will make it extremely less hardy. Overall I don’t think your weather will be a problem. They are all over the place here; average winter is 20s/teens at night and 40/50 during the day. Ideally they will grow really well when it’s close to 90 degrees. The heat isnt much of a problem. We were over 115F as a high for a few weeks last summer. 

 

Geeze 115, but what humidity? 

Humidity here in the summer is almost always 70-90% lol 

 

What would you recommend wrapping them with? This first winter I don't want to take any chances.

I was thinking of wrapping them all in a layer of burlap, and use a heating coil around the base and trunk, then another layer of burlap. 

 

 

[Steve in Florida]

The Jobes fertilizer spikes have a lot of excess salt including 10% chlorine.  There is also no mechanism to prevent flash release of all nutrients.  I custom blend Nutricote fertilizers.  Dynamite fertilizer is Nutricote.  Have you checked what slow release fertilizers are available locally to you? 

[RyManUtah]

1 hour ago, Dartolution said:

 

Geeze 115, but what humidity? 

Humidity here in the summer is almost always 70-90% lol 

 

What would you recommend wrapping them with? This first winter I don't want to take any chances.

I was thinking of wrapping them all in a layer of burlap, and use a heating coil around the base and trunk, then another layer of burlap. 

 

 

Humidity is usually single digits in the summer haha. In the winter it’s 20-30 unless it’s raining. 

I think that should work out well. I haven’t wrapped in years, but one of my methods was a burlap collar around the grown, Christmas lights up the truck and a frost cloth over the entire thing.

There was only one time I had to wrap a tree for more than just overnight. I sprayed a diluted fungicide to prevent rot from occurring under the layering. Then wrapped the whole thing in burlap and Christmas lights. I had two pipes coming down for ventilation. With a tomato cage I filled with leaves, and a covered with a tarp. The cage was so the tarp would not touch the fronds. We didn’t get above freezing for three days and it was a baby Washingtonia robusta. 

I don’t have experience wrapping a Chamaerops, but I think you are headed in the right direction. I would make sure the burlap isn’t flammable if it’s a really hot cable, personally. But it’s also very dry out west. 

[Dartolution]

11 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

The Jobes fertilizer spikes have a lot of excess salt including 10% chlorine.  There is also no mechanism to prevent flash release of all nutrients.  I custom blend Nutricote fertilizers.  Dynamite fertilizer is Nutricote.  Have you checked what slow release fertilizers are available locally to you? 

Nothing available locally that I have seen specifically for palms. 

When I planted them I used Dr. Earth Exotic Blend organic dry amendment. 

I did see the Cl, which I was curious about. Why do they put that in there?
 

9 hours ago, Ryagra said:

Humidity is usually single digits in the summer haha. In the winter it’s 20-30 unless it’s raining. 

I think that should work out well. I haven’t wrapped in years, but one of my methods was a burlap collar around the grown, Christmas lights up the truck and a frost cloth over the entire thing.

There was only one time I had to wrap a tree for more than just overnight. I sprayed a diluted fungicide to prevent rot from occurring under the layering. Then wrapped the whole thing in burlap and Christmas lights. I had two pipes coming down for ventilation. With a tomato cage I filled with leaves, and a covered with a tarp. The cage was so the tarp would not touch the fronds. We didn’t get above freezing for three days and it was a baby Washingtonia robusta. 

I don’t have experience wrapping a Chamaerops, but I think you are headed in the right direction. I would make sure the burlap isn’t flammable if it’s a really hot cable, personally. But it’s also very dry out west. 

 

It's far from dry in the winter here, so I don't think flammability is too concerning. 

Basically for the last 2 months its been raining daily for 30mins - an hr or more in the mid afternoon. 

I swear I live in the tropics. 

 

Other than the winter care what fertilizers would anyone recommend, and what growth rates has anyone seen from this species?

Over the last year that I had my largest one potted it put out a good 5-7 new leaves, and all the new leaves were much longer than the original ones as you can see in the picture. 

 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

You should be able to find slow release tree fertilizer with major elements in the approx. ratio of 3-1-3 NPK (nitrogen-phosphorous-potassium) that also contains the minor elements (read the label). Both the orange and the blue BBs have similar versions. Southern Ag puts out Essential Minor Elements in granular form if you should need them.

Minor elements include:

Calcium (Ca)
Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S)
Boron (B)
Chlorine (CI)
Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)
Zinc (Zn)

[sevapalms]

14 hours ago, Dartolution said:

@sevapalms We usually don't get freezing temperatures that last long. May have a stray night or two February that dips in the teens, but these nights are few and far between usually. 

That’s good, those temperatures likely wouldn’t faze your palms.

[NC_Palms]

I've had luck with Chamaerops in my zone 8a climate and they are planted quite commonly throughout my area. Chamaerops is definitely one of my favorite palms to grow. 

[PalmTreeDude]

Mine defoiliates and comes back every Spring here on the boarder of zone 7a/7b in Virginia. Here it is, given no care, as you can tell. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by PalmTreeDude

[Dartolution]

Thanks guys, 

Is there anyone that has had this species in zone 7-8 long term? 

[RJ]

52 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

Thanks guys, 

Is there anyone that has had this species in zone 7-8 long term? 

Plenty around me that have been in the ground decades I would say. 

[mdsonofthesouth]

3 hours ago, Dartolution said:

Thanks guys, 

Is there anyone that has had this species in zone 7-8 long term? 

 I had one from 2016 til 219 in z7a with minimal protection. Lost it this year during a family death event that it needed some help through. If you plant it in a solid 7 to 8 in a protected spot and keep it sheltered during bad events it is more hardy, IMHO, than some claim. Maybe I got lucky as a good while duing the 2018 event it saw high single digit temps and only lost its fronds and even put out inflorescence in April 2018. This was my first palm and has earned a permanent spot in my garden. I have a wonderful specimen currently planted in my new garden and will be better prepared this time. 

 

Bellow is the post 2018 event look of my late palm. 

Here is the same palm a few months later. They recover wonderfully!

[Chester B]

No problem in zone 8. Here’s a nice one I saw yesterday. I have a few in the ground. The first one I planted saw 12f in its first winter. 

[mdsonofthesouth]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

No problem in zone 8. Here’s a nice one I saw yesterday. I have a few in the ground. The first one I planted saw 12f in its first winter. 

 

Haha mine did too and only tip burn!

Edited July 8, 2019 by mdsonofthesouth

[Dartolution]

Thanks guys, that leaves me a bit more relieved. 

I plan on wrapping mine up this winter when it gets really cold and use burlap and maybe a heating coil. I don't want to take any chances for the first several years until it becomes very established. 

[MSX]

Hello everyone, is it okay to plant a 3-4 years old Chamaerops (a common green one) in the flower-bed among a few Oleanders and other perrenials/ annuals (daisies, four o'clocks mirabilis, asters etc)? The flower-bed is watered by drippers tubes, these types of flowers actually need the water during the summer heat, especially oleander, but what about a young Chamaerops?

[Las Palmas Norte]

10 minutes ago, MSX said:

Hello everyone, is it okay to plant a 3-4 years old Chamaerops (a common green one) in the flower-bed among a few Oleanders and other perrenials/ annuals (daisies, four o'clocks mirabilis, asters etc)? The flower-bed is watered by drippers tubes, these types of flowers actually need the water during the summer heat, especially oleander, but what about a young Chamaerops?

It's certainly worth a try. You might need some winter protection during extreme temperature until it grows larger. 

[MSX]

34 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

It's certainly worth a try. You might need some winter protection during extreme temperature until it grows larger. 

Thanks! Yeah, I have an extra couple of Christmas lights strings ready for the next winter in the ground, but as we're now entering warm season I'm more worried about watering and possible chances of overwatering a young Chamaerops palm growing in the flowers-bed))

[oasis371]

This species has a lot of genetic variability, you see this on the surface as some are much more clumping in nature, others, almost solitary.  I had once planted one, unprotected, in a wet zone 6b and it came back from the roots.  Obtviously, you want to avoid this as it weakens the palm. I think anything you do to protect from winter WET is a plus, thinking raised beds are a plus in the East and Gulf.  I think sometimes people think of "protecting" as all or nothing. This past winter,  was not easy one, I just covered by in-ground Trachycarpus with couple of bungeed shower curtains to keep snow, ice and rain from the center of the plant,  and removed it during milder periods. Takes less than three minutes at most  and the plant looks terrific, considering. 

MSX,  I used the lights in the month of January into early February.  You need to get the older ones (non-LED), as the old incandescent ones actually emit some heat, LED emit practically no heat.  Keep in mind that those little, old-fashioned, non-LED bulbs emit more heat than you might think.  What I did was wrap the plant with with a layer of fabric to keep it off the foliage and then covered it with two shower curtains for insulation.  I also think it's useful to unwrap at times in the winter for ventilation and sun. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by oasis371

[GregVirginia7]

1 hour ago, MSX said:

Thanks! Yeah, I have an extra couple of Christmas lights strings ready for the next winter in the ground, but as we're now entering warm season I'm more worried about watering and possible chances of overwatering a young Chamaerops palm growing in the flowers-bed))

For sure, location is very important and if you have it in a bed with other plants that need a fair amount of water, you may want to think about moving it or the flowers...this is somewhat of a desert palm and dry spells are important. I planted mine on an incline and water only in the driest of circumstances. In the winter, I stake an umbrella over the crown which helps keep it a little dryer during cold and wet stretches. This year, it had some dieback but it was very selective about the fronds it shut down. The fronds it culled are all from the same emergence level and not some random freeze damage. Anyway, lots of sun and dry situations are best...my zone 7 is stretching the freeze tolerance a bit, but it’s been in-ground since 2014...so far so good...and, it has about an 18” trunk on it!
 

 

 

[jwitt]

I have one in 7b Rio Rancho, NM. It survived -10f in 2011 on the north side of my house.  I moved it to my southside when we saw zero the following winter. It lost 1(1 foot) trunk thru all that. It is slow growing for me here. 

 

It survives today and suffered about 25% frond damage this year after 7f.  For me, single digits are where I start to see damage. I have never protected it.

So in a dry climate it is leaf hardy to about 10f or so for me. So in my 7b, this works well on a south wall.

[Chad king NC]

I am 7a NC and always kill the green ones in spring.  So keep it dry, and be careful with fertilizer.   I recommend only using organic fertilizer.  Long-term silver does much better for me.

[Will]

Growing one in Central Europe 7b. Seems to grow quite good with some or no protection in winter.