Royal palms at Collier - Seminole State Park

[NC_Palms]

[palmsOrl]

I was just thinking about these the other day.  I loved seeing the Florida royals of all sizes growing in the jungle there.  I need to order some Fl royal seed from RPS one of these days.

[NC_Palms]

I’m down in Southwest Florida for a while and today I visited Collier - Seminole State Park near Naples. Seeing royal palms in habitat was such a cool experience. 

 

[NC_Palms]

1 minute ago, palmsOrl said:

I was just thinking about these the other day.  I loved seeing the Florida royals of all sizes growing in the jungle there.  I need to order some Fl royal seed from RPS one of these days.

This was my first time seeing them in the wild! Such a beautiful place 

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, palmsOrl said:

I was just thinking about these the other day.  I loved seeing the Florida royals of all sizes growing in the jungle there.  I need to order some Fl royal seed from RPS one of these days.

If you are looking for seedlings, I have a few I will gladly donate to your collection.

[NOT A TA]

12 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

If you are looking for seedlings, I have a few I will gladly donate to your collection.

^^^ there's a good offer!

[palmsOrl]

9 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

If you are looking for seedlings, I have a few I will gladly donate to your collection.

Kinzyjr, wow that is a great offer.  Even one or two would be great.  How much would I owe you for shipping?

Did you get yours from RPS?  Thanks again!

[kinzyjr]

@palmsOrl

PM me with how many you want.  I think I have 4 or 5 good ones left.  I'll calculate shipping and respond.

The seeds for this particular batch was a CFPACS auction last fall.  @Steve the palmreader was the one who brought them to the auction if memory serves me correctly.

[palmsOrl]

I looked up Florida royal palm (Roystonea Regia) on Wiki and apparently one of the synonyms in the past was “Roystonea regia var. hondurensis”.  Does this mean that an ecotype similar to, or superficially identical to the Florida form is found in Honduras?  

[DoomsDave]

So nice to see them again.

Even more magnificent than for my visit back in early 2008.

 

[NOT A TA]

IIRC there's also been discussions on "Florida" VS "Cuban" Roystonea. There's quite a few Royals in my neighborhood I can get seed from. Last batch came from this specimen about 20' from my house in neighbors yard. He usually cuts off the inflorescence's to reduce debris but will let one go to seed if I want some and I'll go climb up  a tall ladder and cut it with a pole saw just as it starts dropping seed.

[NC_Palms]

13 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

I looked up Florida royal palm (Roystonea Regia) on Wiki and apparently one of the synonyms in the past was “Roystonea regia var. hondurensis”.  Does this mean that an ecotype similar to, or superficially identical to the Florida form is found in Honduras?  

I’m far from an expert on royal palms but I would imagine that there are several variations of this species throughout its range. Similarly to how there are variations between Sabal palmetto in NC vs Florida and so on. 

 

[sonoranfans]

Last I read, "florida royals" are just naturalized cuban royals, roystonea regia.  These are massive trees with thick trunks when they get enough water.   I have seen quite a few street trees that were neglected often planted in a small sidewalk with little room for growth of roots.  these appear with relatively thin trunks, stunted.   Mine get plenty of water, they tower over the rest of my palms at about 35-40' overall and have maximum trunk diameters of 28-30".   Such a heavy tree I never want to remove, it would take a crane.

[palmsOrl]

Sonoranfans, I also wouldn’t be surprised if the South Florida royal populations were naturalized (or introduces then evolved separately) from Roystonea regia from Cuba.  Whether they have had enough time to differentiate into a distinct species from Cuban Roystonea regia, I have no idea (clearly more research is needed).  My understanding is, there are some subtle morphological differences between the two.

I have also seen it theorized on other Palmtalk threads that the differences seen in Florida royal populations are simply due to differences in growing conditions in habitat, as opposed to differences in DNA sufficient to indicate a distinct species.

I have seen lots of chlorotic, pitiful royals in South Florida, but when well cared for, they are massive and beautiful palms.  Same in warmer areas of Central Florida.

[NC_Palms]

@palmsOrl @sonoranfans This is probably an unanswerable question, but if Florida royal palms are just naturalized from Cuba, how and when did they first get to Florida? 

[palmsOrl]

I guess either Native Americans brought seeds or plants from Cuba or birds deposited seed in South Florida.  Does anyone know if there was a time since South Florida was part of the ocean that sea levels were low enough that a land bridge existed between Cuba and Florida?

[sonoranfans]

Yes seafaring natives brought seed to florida is the hypothesis I heard, and its not unlikely as 90 miles to cuba isnt much.  When is anyones guess.  Some who have claimed morphological differences between florida and cuba most often cited trunk shape of coke bottle vs constant diameter trunk.  I have found in my own royals that the coke bottle is just a lower water regimen/soil.  I have one of each coke bottle and ~constant diameter trunk.  I have read taxonomist opinions that say this is not a real difference, more likely location and conditions, and seed and inflorescences, leaf and crownshaft sizes of the supposed "elata" florida everglade variety are the same.  Lets just say the ones in the everglades get plenty of water, are sometimes with roots partly submerged.  But cuba has a dry season so there is that.  I am not a taxonomist, so I dont have an expert opinion. 

[Zeeth]

Here's what Scott Zona says in the Roystonea monograph about the origin of R. regia in Florida:

 

"Birds and bats have been observed feeding on the fruits of Roystonea. The colorful, oily drupes are produced in abundance and are likely a significant food resource for many species of animal...

Simpson (1932) believed that Roystonea established itself in Florida by means of water dispersal from Cuba. He believed that most trees in Cuba fruit in autumn - when migratory birds are flying south, not north. He described how he witnessed large quantities of Roystonea fruits floating along the Florida coast after a hurricane. Although seeds deposited along the coast would not likely germinate and establish, those blown inland might. That Cuban material is occasionally transported to Florida, as Simpson observed, may account for the lack of genetic differentiation in Florida (Zona, unpublished data). Because fruits are produced throughout the year (but with peak in late summer), animal-mediated seed dispersal between Cuba and Florida need not be unidirectional."

 

[Steve the palmreader]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:56 AM, kinzyjr said:

@palmsOrl

PM me with how many you want.  I think I have 4 or 5 good ones left.  I'll calculate shipping and respond.

The seeds for this particular batch was a CFPACS auction last fall.  @Steve the palmreader was the one who brought them to the auction if memory serves me correctly.

The seeds were from a palm that was grown from a habitat collected seed,  In  the Glades  He has other royals in his yard that were grown from seeds from Old Homestead fl. I don't know if they hybridize ?

[palmsOrl]

The ones from old Homestead, Fl might indeed be Fl royals too (?) as Miami-Dade County is part of Roystonea regia’s native range.