Sabal miamiensis in flower - Seeds Anyone?

[PalmatierMeg]

My largest Sabal miamiensis is now flowering profusely and will likely produce a crop of many 1,000s of seeds come Nov./Dec. I have a dilemma: cut off and compost this bounty or find new homes for them. Is there anyone on PT who might be interested in part or all of this crop? I have no desire to parse them out in lots of 10 or 20 and store them for months. I sold last year's crop, uncleaned, to a PTer for the labor I expended harvesting them to finance future plant purchases. I'm looking to do the same this year. If you have an interest in a large lot of seeds, let me know.

Some background: I received a 1-leaf seedling that became this palm from a generous PTer on Pine Island in May 2008. He, in turn, had received Sabal miamiensis seeds collected by Christian Faulkner from a garden owned by an anonymous source. After much angst and tribulation on my part, that tiny seedling grew into the palm in the following photos.

This little Sabal has generated a lot of debate and ink since it was first described in the 1990s after which developers wiped out the entire wild population of this native palm. It now exists only in botanical gardens and a few private gardens. Only DNA tests may decide the issue. What is Sabal miamiensis and why should you care? See past topics below

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/1627-sabal-miamiensis/&tab=comments#comment-24549

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/6435-sabal-miamiensis/&tab=comments#comment-106851

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/47965-does-sabal-miamiensis-sabal-palmetto-does-it-matter/&

My mother plant is a most beautiful specimen and worthy of being conserved. See photos below:

Sabal miamiensis, Cape Coral, FL

 

[palmsOrl]

That is a beautiful specimen Meg.  In your opinion, what are the visible differences from Sabal palmetto?

[kinzyjr]

@palmsOrl They are most closely related to Sabal etonia, and I think Sabal miamiensis is now considered botanically to be a synonym for Sabal etonia.  I believe seed size is one of the determinants of when one of these beasts are considered Sabal miamiensis.  I have two of them in the front yard, courtesy of a donation to a CFPACS auction from @Eric in Orlando.

@PalmatierMeg Should no one else approach you concerning your seed lot, I'll offer to adopt the wayward seedlings into my loving arms.  If someone desperately wants them, I won't get in their way though.

[NC_Palms]

I am interested. I've always wanted to try S. miamiensis

[PalmTreeDude]

Are they like the Miami area ecotype of Sabal etonia? 

[Steve in Florida]

They grow like a hybrid between S. palmetto and S. etonia and have an affinity for limestone.

[palmsOrl]

I would also love to try some seeds, but I know you said you prefer to move the whole lot in one batch.

[Phoenikakias]

They tolerate much better high air humidity, moist soil, semi shade and hot temps combined. A Sabal causiarum under such conditions would show fungal problems.

[PalmatierMeg]

3 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

I would also love to try some seeds, but I know you said you prefer to move the whole lot in one batch.

That would be nice but is not iron clad. I wanted to get an idea of interest. With so many seeds coming on I may need to cut off most of the inflorescenses. What I want to avoid is dinking around sending out 10 or 20 seeds at a time with the resulting paperwork nightmare. If someone can take to 100, 250, 1000+ seeds, etc. ............... gives me an idea how much pruning I need to do.

 

@palmsOrl and @PalmTreeDude until someone conducts DNA tests no one can say with certainty exactly what genetics this palm carries. I can tell you I've had difficulties growing pure Sabal etonia here in my alkaline, calcareous soil. This species thrives in the loamy soil of north central FL but hates the limestone and shell rock of the coasts.I have just one struggling, dwarfish specimen left from seeds I germinated in 2008 - the rest all eventually croaked. I took this photo a few moments ago and saw it actually looks better than it has the past 11 years. It is about 40" tall and 48" wide but is only a fraction the size of my miamiensis.

Sabal etonia, Cape Coral, FL

 

@palmsOrl, my S. miamiensis differs from S. etonia in robustness, size, larger seeds and three orders of branching for S.m. vs two for S.e. It also hails from a small restricted area of the SE FL coast quite distant from north central FL. While S.m. shares three orders of branching with Sabal palmetto, the two species have striking differences. S.m. seeds are 2-3x larger than those of S.p. Miamiensis has grown faster than my palmettos germinated in 2008. Its leaves appear more costapalmate to me. It also flowered and set seeds at a much younger age: ~7-8 years old. None of my 11-year-old normal palmettos has ever flowered. My 12-year-old Sabal Lisa flowered and set viable seeds in 2017, but aborted its 2018 crop and so far this year has shown no sign of flowering at all. Is that because of the shellacking the palm received from Hurricane Irma in Sept. 2017? Or was that first and only crop a fluke? I really don't know.

[SilverDragon]

Gorgeous Sabal indeed!

[clevelandtropicsmaybe]

Do you think that s.p. miamiensis has the same cold hardiness as s. palmetto?

[PalmatierMeg]

1 hour ago, clevelandtropicsmaybe said:

Do you think that s.p. miamiensis has the same cold hardiness as s. palmetto?

I'm not sure. Perhaps or maybe close. Palmetto's problem is when its trunk exceeds 4' tall, the meristem/growing point is fully exposed to ambient air temps. The non-trunking Sabals, i.e., etonia, miamiensis and minor, have underground meristems that are protected. Even if their leaves die back, the palm still survives. But they will require long hot, sunny summers to recover from their winter damage. I don't know if anyone has tried miamiensis north of FL. Plant Delights Nursery in Raleigh sells seedlings of Sabal etonia so I know that species can survive there. From all I've learned, minor is the cold hardiest Sabal.

I've become quite fond of Sabal minor, esp. the varieties I call "uber dwarfs." If I lived north of FL, I would devote a portion of my yard to growing minor in its many varieties. Recently, S. minor 'Cherokee' surpassed S.m. 'McCurtain County' as the northernmost growing S.m. You should check into them.

[clevelandtropicsmaybe]

36 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I've become quite fond of Sabal minor, esp. the varieties I call "uber dwarfs." If I lived north of FL, I would devote a portion of my yard to growing minor in its many varieties. Recently, S. minor 'Cherokee' surpassed S.m. 'McCurtain County' as the northernmost growing S.m. You should check into them.

Thanks for the recommendation, ill have to check them out. And wow, miamiensis is pretty big for a sabal with an underground trunk!

[Nj Palms]

I’d love to try some seeds up here when they are ripe. I will have to test their true hardiness. Does anyone know how hardy they are?

[Steve in Florida]

In the ground they are hardy to at least 12-14F provided there is no freezing rain involved.

[Frank]

Hi Meg,

Do you still have any Sabal palmetto "Lisa" for sale?

Frank

New Smyrna Beach, FL

[PalmatierMeg]

10 hours ago, Frank said:

Hi Meg,

Do you still have any Sabal palmetto "Lisa" for sale?

Frank

New Smyrna Beach, FL

Yes, see my PM.

[PalmatierMeg]

Seeds ripe and posted in the Sale Forum. Come and get 'em.

[Steve in Florida]

Meg,  how many orders of branching does the inflorescences have?

[edric]

Hi Meg, looks great! Ed

[PalmatierMeg]

On 12/1/2019 at 8:10 PM, Steve in Florida said:

Meg,  how many orders of branching does the inflorescences have?

3 orders.