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Sabal Palmetto in Desert


RyManUtah

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Does anybody have any experience growing this tree in the desert? Or perhaps resources to point me towards? I love the sabal palm. Just don’t know if it will thrive here, or if I’m wasting my time. 

I am in zone 8b high desert.

Lows rarely below 20F, but occasionally in the teens. 

Highs around 115F.

Altitude 2600’. 

Edited by Ryagra
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I realized I did not put this in Athe cold hardy forum, and am unsure how to move it. 

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It doesn’t sound like low temperatures would be an issue. I’m not sure they could survive the dry desert conditions. Also I’ve read they can’t survive long periods without seeing warm weather. 

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I have a S. Minor and S. Blackburniana. Both are in 3/4 day sun here in Phoenix. Sun wise both do well and maybe wash out slightly in the hottest months. I saw a night of 26f this winter and both had zero issues. I keep both well watered. Heat and cold are not an issue. 

Max

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You might also try Sabal mexicana, which I've heard are a bit more tolerant of desert climates. 

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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I have a 5g here in Gilbert, AZ that I purchased from a big box store about two years ago.  It was like $5 on the final sale rack so why not?  It's in a hellstrip of full sun all day and has had zero issues with sun or cold.  It's on a drip which probably helps.  Not fast growing but always looks happy and pushing a spear or two in my experience.  Slower than the Butia Capitata next to it.

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39 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

It doesn’t sound like low temperatures would be an issue. I’m not sure they could survive the dry desert conditions. Also I’ve read they can’t survive long periods without seeing warm weather. 

That’s what I don’t know either. It is usually hovering between 45-55 during the daytime in January. . But that’s significantly colder for longer than in places like say northern Florida. 

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24 minutes ago, AZPalms said:

I have a S. Minor and S. Blackburniana. Both are in 3/4 day sun here in Phoenix. Sun wise both do well and maybe wash out slightly in the hottest months. I saw a night of 26f this winter and both had zero issues. I keep both well watered. Heat and cold are not an issue. 

Max

Awesome! So really moisture that is the key? I didn’t think the weather would bother it much. Do you winter water? 

Our winter days are probably much colder than yours, but still well above feeezinfnin the daytime. We had record snowfall and cold this year. The dactys croaked. Many robustas defoliate shut came back in April. I don’t anticipate it being a problem with the sabal. Chamaerops, trachys and filifera all made it through fine. 

Edited by Ryagra
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17 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

You might also try Sabal mexicana, which I've heard are a but more tolerant of desert climates. 

Do you know if it’s because of drought tolerance, or better tolerance to no humidity? 

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14 minutes ago, RichAZ said:

I have a 5g here in Gilbert, AZ that I purchased from a big box store about two years ago.  It was like $5 on the final sale rack so why not?  It's in a hellstrip of full sun all day and has had zero issues with sun or cold.  It's on a drip which probably helps.  Not fast growing but always looks happy and pushing a spear or two in my experience.  Slower than the Butia Capitata next to it.

Thanks for the report! All of my plants that aren’t a cactus, yucca, etc. are on a drip, so that won’t be a problem. 

Slower than the butia? That’s one of the slowest ones in my area. That’s interesting. I plan to plant in full sun as well.

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7 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

Awesome! So really moisture that is the key? I didn’t think the weather would bother it much. Do you winter water? 

Our winter days are probably much colder than yours, but still well above feeezinfnin the daytime. We had record snowfall and cold this year. The dactys croaked. Many robustas defoliate shut came back in April. I don’t anticipate it being a problem with the sabal. Chamaerops, trachys and filifera all made it through fine. 

I believe so. Minors can be found in swamp conditions in nature, I have them planted in the “wettest” portion of my yard (by desert standards) and mulched. Slow growing but stays nice and green. The blackburniana I water deeply a couple of times per week, keep it moist but it’s not as wet as the minor. Grows more quickly than the minor as well. 

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17 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

That’s what I don’t know either. It is usually hovering between 45-55 during the daytime in January. . But that’s significantly colder for longer than in places like say northern Florida. 

Temperature won't be an issue until you start approaching the 10F mark, perhaps lower depending on the area from which the seed/plant was collected.  They are native stands in coastal NC and they happily grow in the Virginia Beach Area.  The biggest challenge you'll face is keeping them watered.  I agree with @Zeeth about Sabal mexicana.  They grow pretty slowly. 

I do have a few juveniles I can spare, but they are pretty small (4-5 leaflets).  If you want a few, PM me.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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It seems like I read about some people in the Seattle area unsuccessfully trying to grow them. The problem wasn’t extreme low temperatures. It was long cool winters without temperatures warm enough for the palm to thrive. 

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  Street View of S. palmetto specimen up the road from the house here in Chandler, Across from Dobson Ranch Park. Pretty sure these are S. palmetto since this is the most commonly offered "Sabal" in local nurseries, aside from S. blackburniana. 
596130475_savedpictures.jpg.d0fee7fcd483448a6407e4dd3cf1ca0e.jpg


Few others planted in front of a local nursery in Gilbert.
828858216_savedpictures2.jpg.79b9fd62404c84e5eb68f990a304d586.jpg

 

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I would forget about Sabal palmetto and go with S. Riverside and S. Bermudana. The last one is the only one I grow in PNW z8. 

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Latitude aside, your elevation is similar to parts of Tucson. While likely a bit milder overall during the winter months, they can see more lower / low 20's ..occasional teens some years, and snow ( though likely less than up there in St. George / Southern Utah, or so i'd imagine.. ) compared to here around Phoenix.. That said, the U of A Campus Arboretum lists Sabal mexicana, minor, palmetto,  uresana, and x Riverside in their collection. They also have 6 Bismarckia specimens as well.. Know of a nursery owner nearby who also has one growing on his property also.. 

While siting likely helps with survival during the coldest winters there, U of A sits at 2443ft in elevation, and sits in the river valley where it often gets colder during such events compared to places like Tohono Chul Park in Casa Adobes at an elevation of 2539ft. Not sure which sp. but the park has several non-uresana  Sabals on- site and doing well.

If it were me, i'd get some seed /seedlings and go for it.. Might grow a few up to 3- 5gal size before planting though. Of all the Sabal seedlings i have atm, unintentionally sown S. palmetto have been the toughest, and i have really put them to the test here, at least heat / lack of consistent water-wise..

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The problem for Sabals in PNW z8, at least near the coast, is not with winter lows but the lack of long, hot summers. They need sun and heat to prepare them for winter. If your zone 8 in Utah has lots of sun and heat for at least 3-4+ months, most Sabals except mauritiiformis should survive lows to the lower teens. S. minor takes even lower. If you provide regular fertilizer and irrigation they grow faster than if left to fend for themselves. If you plant small seedlings you may have to protect them until they gain size.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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45 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

The problem for Sabals in PNW z8, at least near the coast, is not with winter lows but the lack of long, hot summers. They need sun and heat to prepare them for winter. If your zone 8 in Utah has lots of sun and heat for at least 3-4+ months, most Sabals except mauritiiformis should survive lows to the lower teens. S. minor takes even lower. If you provide regular fertilizer and irrigation they grow faster than if left to fend for themselves. If you plant small seedlings you may have to protect them until they gain size.

We have plenty of sun and heat. We lack natural moister. With 8” of rain a year, most palms other than very nature desert species, are regularly irrigated.  It gets hot in April, usually around 90F. It is at or over 100F for a minimum of three months, several weeks of which are over 110F. It’s january that usually wreaks the havoc. 

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Am pretty much in the same exact climate as you Ryagra. Am in Hesperia , zone 8b High Desert as well and honestly never thought about sabals not making it in my area. (Besides the more tropical ones of course.) I've had Uresana & pumos do fine for me. I recently planted a Riverside & plan to plant Blackburniana, Causiarum, a few minors, Palmetto by next week. I say go for it!

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Hesperia,Southern CA (High Desert area). Zone 8b

Elevation; about 3600 ft.

Lowest temp. I can expect each year 19/20*f lowest since I've been growing palms *13(2007) Hottest temp. Each year *106

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I didn’t realize there were areas of Utah that are that warm. Looking at the map you’re not far from Las Vegas so it makes sense. 

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The ol' saying here is that sabals love their head in fire and feet in the water (or something along those lines).     Sounds like you have the right winter temps to keep one going.  Just need to keep it moist in those hotter than heck days.   

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C from NC

:)

Bone dry summers, wet winters, 2-3 days ea. winter in low teens.

Siler City, NC

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7 hours ago, Jeff985 said:

I didn’t realize there were areas of Utah that are that warm. Looking at the map you’re not far from Las Vegas so it makes sense. 

It is a pretty cool pace. This little metro is in the NE corner of the Mojave Desert, at significantly lower elevation then the rest of the state. Nearby the mojave desert meets with the Great Basin and the Colorado plateau. We have a very stron “micro climate” compared to the rest of the state, however, we do get their storms on occasion. Same elevation as the east side of Vegas. We are far more likely for snowfall, however. 

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2 hours ago, NCpalmqueen said:

The ol' saying here is that sabals love their head in fire and feet in the water (or something along those lines).     Sounds like you have the right winter temps to keep one going.  Just need to keep it moist in those hotter than heck days.   

That is a great saying! Thank you. I have plenty of irrigation for it. I mean, I have a square patch of lush green grass for the dog haha. 

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I have seen Sabal palmetto of decent size in both Las Vegas and Phoenix, I didn’t think they looked their prime in either place like they do in the SE US but I also think it may be a care issue, looked over-trimmed and under-watered.  

I have wondered why they are not used in St. George, their cold tolerance would seem to make them ideal. I see more Phoenix genus in St. George than I have Sabal and Phoenix is less tolerant of cold. Sabal Uresana is more tolerant of desert conditions too, but I would have to check on the hardiness again. 

By far the most abundant palms in St. George are Washingtonia. They do well not only because of their excellent hardiness to cold (especially filifera) but also because when they inevitably get damaged by cold, they have an excellent growth rate and rebound quickly. Sabal does not have that same rebound superpower as Washingtonia, I think that may be one reason why you don’t see so many.  Similar thing for Phoenix genus, they survive cold spells there but have a hard time restoring a full crown before getting blasted again. Nevertheless I know of a handful of them around town that have survived for decades. 

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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19 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

That is a great saying! Thank you. I have plenty of irrigation for it. I mean, I have a square patch of lush green grass for the dog haha. 

I have heard a similar saying for date palms but it goes like this. “Date palms like to have their feet in heaven and their head in hell.”

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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9 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

I have seen Sabal palmetto of decent size in both Las Vegas and Phoenix, I didn’t think they looked their prime in either place like they do in the SE US but I also think it may be a care issue, looked over-trimmed and under-watered.  

I have wondered why they are not used in St. George, their cold tolerance would seem to make them ideal. I see more Phoenix genus in St. George than I have Sabal and Phoenix is less tolerant of cold. Sabal Uresana is more tolerant of desert conditions too, but I would have to check on the hardiness again. 

By far the most abundant palms in St. George are Washingtonia. They do well not only because of their excellent hardiness to cold (especially filifera) but also because when they inevitably get damaged by cold, they have an excellent growth rate and rebound quickly. Sabal does not have that same rebound superpower as Washingtonia, I think that may be one reason why you don’t see so many.  Similar thing for Phoenix genus, they survive cold spells there but have a hard time restoring a full crown before getting blasted again. Nevertheless I know of a handful of them around town that have survived for decades. 

I say a lot of tall dactys removed this spring.  The record snowfall and cold spell was brutal. It made me sad. There are still some around, as well as CIDP. 

You are right about the Washingtonias. Birds probably have a lot to do with it, but I’ve seen them grow out of retaining walls and sidewalks several times haha. They do really well. There’s a pretty heavy abundance of trachycarpus as well. 

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12 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

I have heard a similar saying for date palms but it goes like this. “Date palms like to have their feet in heaven and their head in hell.”

That’s what I appreciate about date palms. I can relate to that on a personal level haha. I would rather melt than shiver, any day.  Just keep yourself sufficiently watered. 

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You could try a three gallon palmetto or better yet a seven gallon.  Can you protect it if temperatures drop below 20F for the first 2-3 winters?  Protecting it until it gets fully established in the ground is the key. 

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29 minutes ago, Steve in Florida said:

You could try a three gallon palmetto or better yet a seven gallon.  Can you protect it if temperatures drop below 20F for the first 2-3 winters?  Protecting it until it gets fully established in the ground is the key. 

Easily. Protection is not an issue. I have zone zone 9 and 10 plants (not palms) that require protection every so often. 

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21 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

The problem for Sabals in PNW z8, at least near the coast, is not with winter lows but the lack of long, hot summers. They need sun and heat to prepare them for winter. 

Meg, I've never seen any palm tree on the coast of Washington. It all 8b and 9a so why not...I think it because of the lack of soil it all 100% sand and yes lack of heat would mean only trachycarpus would grow there. The rest of the hardy palms would grow very slowly but would survive. 

Meg, BTW I got my first ripe seeds off some Dyckia's I got from you a few years ago.  Some have turn out to be very hardy and some have not. Some are very colorful and some are really nice silvers and large now.  :D

Ryagra you should try as many palmettos as you can to see what is hardy and whats not.  

BTW the driest place in WA only has 6" of yearly rain while the coast has 80" to 100".  I am happy with just 54". Just found out that the next 100 days South Puget Sound (my area) will get less than an inch of rain this year. :mellow:

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On 6/17/2019 at 2:57 PM, Ryagra said:

Does anybody have any experience growing this tree in the desert? Or perhaps resources to point me towards? I love the sabal palm. Just don’t know if it will thrive here, or if I’m wasting my time. 

I am in zone 8b high desert.

Lows rarely below 20F, but occasionally in the teens. 

Highs around 115F.

Altitude 2600’. 

I used to live in Yuma AZ and admired the palms planted there. This link shows what I always assumed were 2 Sabal palmetto on the left side. Yuma gets much hotter than Utah, but not nearly as cold. I think you should try growing some.

Hi 104˚, Lo 64˚

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Casas Adobes - NW of Tucson since July 2014

formerly in the San Carlos region of San Diego

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Good luck, @Ryagra!  I have a feeling that they will do well with your intense summer heat and dry cold in the winter.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Good luck Ryagra! Keep us updated buddy :greenthumb:

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Hesperia,Southern CA (High Desert area). Zone 8b

Elevation; about 3600 ft.

Lowest temp. I can expect each year 19/20*f lowest since I've been growing palms *13(2007) Hottest temp. Each year *106

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55 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Good luck, @Ryagra!  I have a feeling that they will do well with your intense summer heat and dry cold in the winter.

 ^^ Whispers quietly.. Now he needs a Sabal "Lisa" or two to try up there:D

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I had a palm garden in Gilbert arizona for 10 years.  We saw to 123F one year and typically 90 days a year at 100F or more with low humidity in the heat(5-55% RH).  If I ever planted any non desert palm small(5g or less) and wanted it to survive the direct mid day sun, I put shade net over it for the first year.  I did this with livistona  decora(maroon was fantastic), sabals, butia, and other non desert palms.  Phoenix, washies, brahea armata, bizzies are in another category, they take the sun best even when young due to the reflective wax.  After the first year(full summer), the net can come off.  What this does is acclimate the non desert palm for minimum foliage losses due to heat and fastest adaptation to root growth instead of trying to keep itself from being desicated by the arizona sun with it small root ball.  Water goes in through the roots and out through transpiration of leaves.  Plants transpiration keeps them cooler but the water uptake is limited by the small roots and hot sun demands cooling.  These small palms can take the sun, but not until they get some roots in the ground.  One year will establish them with shadenet overhead.  I grew a sabal blackburniana in Gilbert it was a big robust sabal, about twice the width(20' wide crown) of a typical palmetto.  It did quite well but needed that shadescreen in year one.  It also was planted with 3 big queens nearby so some filtered sun in the late day hottest temps(~5pm).  In  florida w peak at 2pm in heat, in absence of clouds.  At 2pm, the desert is just heating up, ground and all that heat island with moderate vegetation.  Desert days are hot, low humidity, AND long in their heat.    

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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