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Palm crazy

Anyone try these Super cold Hardy Mules?

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Palm crazy

The cross goes like this... Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus.  Palms are being developed by Moultrie Nursery in St. Augustine, Fl. Has anyone tried this super mule? Cold hardiness has not been tested but they are saying super cold like 7b is not out of the question...WHAT? That sounds too good to be true! :rant:  :hmm:  What type of Butia and Syagrus are they using that would produce such a cold hardy mule. Hmmm?

Edited by Palm crazy

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RJ

I have a large ~15g one. I don't see how it would be a 7b palm though. 

Edited by RJ
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OC2Texaspalmlvr

Just looked it up myself sounds like a lot of speculation, but I would think once the syragus gene is introduced its no longer as hardy I would think but I'm surely no expert haha. You read more and they say there IPS members anyone seen this super mule in person yet ?

Edited by OC2Texaspalmlvr
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Palm crazy
25 minutes ago, RJ said:

I have a large ~15g one. I don't see how it would be a 7b palm though. 

RJ, is your planted in the ground yet? Showing any cold hardiness? 

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kinzyjr

I won't say it can't happen, but I'd want to get at least a few verifiable field tests.  On the website, it states:

Cold tolerance: It is not yet known how cold these trees can get, but we expect them to survive into the low digits.

Website: https://moultriepalms.com/super-mule/

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Palm crazy
14 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Just looked it up myself sounds like a lot of speculation, but I would think once the syragus gene is introduced its no longer as hardy I would think but I'm surely no expert haha. You read more and they say there IPS members anyone seen this super mule in person yet ?

It seems the palms they are crossing with would have to be hardy to at least 7b to be super cold hardy,  however, these would be super hardy for Florida or anyone in 9a and maybe 8b and mostly hardy in 8a with protection.  My 

Edited by Palm crazy

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RJ
Just now, Palm crazy said:

RJ, is your planted in the ground yet? Showing any cold hardiness? 

Not in the ground as it's for the new house that's still a work in progress. I picked it up over the winter and potted it up in a 25g. We saw a low of 23.5F so it was a pretty mild here. I also have two smaller ones that I *think* is of the same source but I can't confirm that for sure. 

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RJ

The parent was sourced from the late Dr. Wilcox 

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Palm crazy
11 minutes ago, RJ said:

Not in the ground as it's for the new house that's still a work in progress. I picked it up over the winter and potted it up in a 25g. We saw a low of 23.5F so it was a pretty mild here. I also have two smaller ones that I *think* is of the same source but I can't confirm that for sure. 

Thanks, RJ. 

9 minutes ago, RJ said:

The parent was sourced from the late Dr. Wilcox 

My hardy x butiagrus nabonnandii came from the late, Dr. Wilcox, BxQ, and it has survived several 15F with protection and overhead canopy.  That does make this super cold hardy mule more promising. 

Edited by Palm crazy

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RJ
3 minutes ago, Palm crazy said:

It seems the palms they are crossing with would have to be hardy to at least 7b to be super cold hardy,  however, these would be super hardy for Florida or anyone in 9a and maybe 8b and mostly hardy in 8a with protection. 

I can't see it as a 7b palm as no palm in the linage is a 7b palm. I don't know anyone who considers a BXJ as a 7b palm. The big one has started to show some plumosity which I found rather interesting. It looks like it's going to be a big palm though. :unsure:

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Trustandi

@Palm crazy I have a seedling in 1g. I have a feeling it will be slightly hardier than butiagrus. Let's see how it goes here in our pnw z8b.  

 

IMG_20190605_133554.jpg

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Palm crazy
4 minutes ago, RJ said:

I can't see it as a 7b palm as no palm in the linage is a 7b palm. I don't know anyone who considers a BXJ as a 7b palm. The big one has started to show some plumosity which I found rather interesting. It looks like it's going to be a big palm though. :unsure:

To say low teens without testing it seems to good to be true. But I am sure some people will get there hopes up and buy one. lol. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
1 minute ago, Trustandi said:

@Palm crazy I have a seedling in 1g. I have a feeling it will be slightly hardier than butiagrus. Let's see how it goes here in our pnw z8b.  

 

IMG_20190605_133554.jpg

Mail ordered seedling from Moultrie ?

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Palm crazy
1 minute ago, Trustandi said:

@Palm crazy I have a seedling in 1g. I have a feeling it will be slightly hardier than butiagrus. Let's see how it goes here in our pnw z8b.  

 

IMG_20190605_133554.jpg

Trustandi, Good for you, I will see how yours does before biting the bullet.  Thanks! It's very hard to resist. 

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RJ
2 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

@Palm crazy I have a seedling in 1g. I have a feeling it will be slightly hardier than butiagrus. Let's see how it goes here in our pnw z8b.  

 

IMG_20190605_133554.jpg

Hmmmm... that looks nothing like my smaller ones. So perhaps my smaller ones aren't from the same source :rolleyes:

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Trustandi

@OC2Texaspalmlvr I got it from a local palm grower, I think he might got it from Einar Richard. Moultrie sold out of them until fall. 

 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
Just now, Trustandi said:

@OC2Texaspalmlvr I got it from a local palm grower, I think he might got it from Einar Richard. Moultrie sold out of them until fall. 

 

Gotcha is there a much of a difference in the look between the super mule and a regular mule

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Trustandi

Yes. It would have been awesome if we could get the mule with butia eriospatha x Syagrus santa catarina here. It would be much hardier.   

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Palm crazy

The late Dr. Wilcox Syagrus was used as a parent plant because it survived a very cold Winter at 18F so now I am thinking this new super cold hardy mule is worth a try for people in z8b-9a and maybe in 8a/8b like me.  :D Good luck to all that have one or all that might get one! :greenthumb: Looking forward to seeing how they do!

Edited by Palm crazy

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mdsonofthesouth

Hmmm sounds interesting. Ill wait for some results before I even consider the plunge. I'm down to 7 palms and 2 are not looking great and 4 are new plantings from March. So I'm going to be more reserved from here on out.

Edited by mdsonofthesouth

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RJ
3 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Gotcha is there a much of a difference in the look between the super mule and a regular mule

It's doesn't look at all like a regular mule. I have a couple smaller ones. Ones on their first pinnate spear sized mules and there is little resemblance. There is definetely some other blood in the "super mule" . Once can only surmise it's the jubaea 

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Ben in Norcal

Here’s mine. Different provenance (Patric) and can’t speak at all to cold hardiness.

 

D5013E30-DB5F-4BC1-A653-7E157A6E57C3.jpeg

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RJ
8 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Here’s mine. Different provenance (Patric) and can’t speak at all to cold hardiness.

 

D5013E30-DB5F-4BC1-A653-7E157A6E57C3.jpeg

I have one from Patric as well, although smaller it’s identical looking to yours. Patrick’s is a ((BXJ)xS)) I think. 

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Ben in Norcal
1 minute ago, RJ said:

I have one from Patric as well, although smaller it’s identical looking to yours. Patrick’s is a ((BXJ)xS)) I think. 

Mine is (BxJ) x (BxS).

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Trustandi

Does Patrick still grow the one like yours, Ben? 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
26 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Mine is (BxJ) x (BxS).

Ben your growing all the cool hybrids unfortunately your not much help with cold hardiness info lol :P

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Ben in Norcal
Just now, Trustandi said:

Does Patrick still grow the one like yours, Ben? 

Not sure!

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Ben in Norcal
Just now, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Ben your growing all the cool hybrids unfortunately your not much help with cold hardiness info lol :P

Love them because I know they will never be challenged here - look tropical - and can provide cover for my experiments!

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RJ
5 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Mine is (BxJ) x (BxS).

Ahh. That's a mule back cross.  Hows the speed on that one? 

 

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Swolte

I have two 'supermules'  (Butia x Jub)x Butia)x Syagrus) I planted from a 3G size (about 3" in trunk diameter) in the spring of 2018 in zone 8b. One I planted in a non-irrigated shady spot (actually didn't receive much direct sun at all) although it did grow. I ended up moving it in the Fall and it had a spear pull last winter (lows in 30's, very mild for here). I have now moved it AGAIN as I was concerned the soil in the 2nd spot may not have been ideal (we had a crazy wet winter) causing the spear pill. Right now, it is mounded in a part-sun spot and it is surviving the Texan heat well. It developed quite a root system in the 2 spots it was and, despite all the punishment, grew about twice the size in trunk (I cut all fronds).

The other one has been in an irrigated spot close to the house where it gets lots of sun from the start. It's now a MONSTER. Probably my fastest and healthy-looking palm.  

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
2 hours ago, Swolte said:

I have two 'supermules'  (Butia x Jub)x Butia)x Syagrus) I planted from a 3G size (about 3" in trunk diameter) in the spring of 2018 in zone 8b. One I planted in a non-irrigated shady spot (actually didn't receive much direct sun at all) although it did grow. I ended up moving it in the Fall and it had a spear pull last winter (lows in 30's, very mild for here). I have now moved it AGAIN as I was concerned the soil in the 2nd spot may not have been ideal (we had a crazy wet winter) causing the spear pill. Right now, it is mounded in a part-sun spot and it is surviving the Texan heat well. It developed quite a root system in the 2 spots it was and, despite all the punishment, grew about twice the size in trunk (I cut all fronds).

The other one has been in an irrigated spot close to the house where it gets lots of sun from the start. It's now a MONSTER. Probably my fastest and healthy-looking palm.  

Would love to see a pics of it =)

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Ben in Norcal
7 hours ago, RJ said:

Ahh. That's a mule back cross.  Hows the speed on that one? 

 

Seems similar to a mule...

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NCpalmqueen
19 hours ago, RJ said:
3 hours ago, Swolte said:

I have two 'supermules'  (Butia x Jub)x Butia)x Syagrus)

Now that's a hybrid I've not heard of!    Pictures?

In my 7b cool wet winter zone, Butia don't last more than 6-8 years unprotected.  Jubaea (anything of size and girth) are about the same in hardiness.   They *have* to be covered in the winter to keep the moisture off or they only last 2-4 years max.    I have both jxb and bxj and neither is more hardy than their parents, but they obviously grow at a faster rate into a beautiful palm, with protection.  The bxj is more prone to cold leaf damage than the jxb.  

20 hours ago, Palm crazy said:

Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus.

 Back crossed with another Butia or Queen, doesn't make them hardier, at least here at my locale.     Most likely an 8b/9a beautiful hybrid.  *sigh*   

 

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Palm crazy

Hey all you PNW gardeners if anyone would like to go together on an order of the super cold mules PM and I will give you a price. Shipping is the same for one palm as for four palms.  I am looking at ordering early July.  The One gallons are not ready right now but extra large tree pot seedlings are ready and these are from last years batch so they will be ready to go into 3-gallon pots.  PM if interested and for price. Prices are good. 

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Palm crazy
50 minutes ago, Palm crazy said:

Hey all you PNW gardeners if anyone would like to go together on an order of the super cold mules PM and I will give you a price. Shipping is the same for one palm as for four palms.  I am looking at ordering early July.  The One gallons are not ready right now but extra large tree pot seedlings are ready and these are from last years batch so they will be ready to go into 3-gallon pots.  PM if interested and for price. Prices are good. 

Sorry people I've decided not to do an order with anyone else. Really sorry for the inconvenience BUT if you are interested in doing your own the price is $15.00 each for a seedling. Shipping around $30.00. Shipping is based on the size of the box so you can get more than one for the same price. The reason for changing my mind is... it would actually be cheaper to have your palms shipped directly to your house since the prices are good.  :blush:

Edited by Palm crazy

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RJ

Here is one of the smaller ones. I potted it up to a 5g this spring from 1g. The other one is a bit more upright growing. Nature of the beast.

image.jpg

image.jpg

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Trustandi

@Palm crazy that is a good price for the 1g. How much is the last year ones? Where to order them from?

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Steve in Florida
22 hours ago, Palm crazy said:

The late Dr. Wilcox Syagrus was used as a parent plant because it survived a very cold Winter at 18F so now I am thinking this new super cold hardy mule is worth a try for people in z8b-9a and maybe in 8a/8b like me.  :D Good luck to all that have one or all that might get one! :greenthumb: Looking forward to seeing how they do!

I had the great opportunity to visit with Merrill before he passed, and his son, and they said their hybrid palm did not like temperatures below 19-20F due to it's Syagrus genes.

Edited by Steve in Florida
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Swolte

These are the two "supermules" from Moultrie Palms which, according to the owners, are: (B xJ) xB)  xS). 

The first image is the one close to the house. Upon planting in the Spring of 2018 it had a 3" trunk diameter and it was about 3' tall. By January 2019, it was 5.5"/4' and today it stands at 8"(!!)/5'.  It looks better in real life than in the picture! 

The second image is the one that went through all the punishment described earlier and I was surprised it even survived. In the spring of 2018 it was 3"/3', by January 2019 it was 3.5"/3', and today it is 4"/3'. As you can see, I mounded it up with better draining soil. Although this one is still in an non-irrigated spot, I am currently spoiling it back to life.

JBS_1.jpg

JBS_2.jpg

Edited by Swolte
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OC2Texaspalmlvr
52 minutes ago, Swolte said:

These are the two "supermules" from Moultrie Palms which, according to the owners, are: (B xJ) xB)  xS). 

The first image is the one close to the house. Upon planting in the Spring of 2018 it had a 3" trunk diameter and it was about 3' tall. By January 2019, it was 5.5"/4' and today it stands at 8"(!!)/5'.  It looks better in real life than in the picture! 

The second image is the one that went through all the punishment described earlier and I was surprised it even survived. In the spring of 2018 it was 3"/3', by January 2019 it was 3.5"/3', and today it is 4"/3'. As you can see, I mounded it up with better draining soil. Although this one is still in an non-irrigated spot, I am currently spoiling it back to life.

JBS_1.jpg

JBS_2.jpg

Thanks for the pics looking good and keep us posted on there hardiness over the next couple winters. I'm sure our summers are no problem for them

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