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Any chance for Royal Palm?


James B

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Hello! I made the mistake of purchasing in December and planted end of January as this palm was already turning brown in its leaves. It’s been planted almost 4 months and nothing. All leaves have turned brown. Spear is mostly green but spots of brown. The new spear has not grown one inch since planting. Is it time to say this palm is dead and replace? Has anyone seen this level of transplant shock in a Royal and the Palm come back? Thanks!

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Is the spear firm and doesn’t pull? What’s the coldest it’s seen? My optimistic guess is that it still has a chance if it gets decent warm weather. My larger Royal this year was 75% burned but it’s alreadh pushed two fronds and is actively growing. 

 My more realistic side says it’s not looking good.

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Tough call. Was the palm expensive? If not, consider replacing it than waste time fooling with it. Second, how high are your daytime temps now? Your nights? Your damaged royal needs heat and sun to jump start its growth. Until it gets that it may do nothing for weeks or even months. Royals are fast growing given the favorable weather conditions they need. You should consider treating the meristem with hydrogen peroxide will help with any infection of the growing point.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Royals are not that expensive in Southern California for a tree that size.  

I would replace the palm. The palm may recover but will take some time.

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It was the most expensive palm I’ve bought lol. I didn’t realize Royals were so delicate. I’ve planted 30 or so King Palms of various subspecies and never had one go into major shock. I had 2 Maximas I planted in December that did not grow until March but once March came around they woke up and have been throwing leaves since. The spear is firm when I pull it. We saw down to 30 degrees a few nights in December and January. So I am prepared that I made a mistake by purchasing a royal and planting in winter and won’t do it again. If I have to replace it. It will be with a slightly smaller palm that isn’t trunking yet. Thank you for the feedback guys!

Edited by James B
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As for highs we have been all over the place this spring. We have had a few days in the 80s and been as high as 87. But the past two weeks we have had a cool spell with lots of rain. Most days highs are between 65-75 going down to a low of 50-55 at night 

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Here in SoCal we haven’t really hit our consistent spring weather yet as you know. Lots of “May Gray”. I would wait and see how it does throughout the summer after it has seen consistent warmer temperatures. That’s my two cents.

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My royals completely defoliate in the winter, but come back just fine.  I'd give it some time with warmer weather.

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Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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15 hours ago, James B said:

As for highs we have been all over the place this spring. We have had a few days in the 80s and been as high as 87. But the past two weeks we have had a cool spell with lots of rain. Most days highs are between 65-75 going down to a low of 50-55 at night 

Extended chilly temps and cold rain can wreak havoc on royals. Winters in SFL can be chilly to downright cold but are almost always dry. We get most of our rain in summer. Royals haven't evolved to cope with winter rain and cold, wet soil. I suggest you not plant any tropical or subtropical palms from Nov. through March. Warmth and sun from spring through fall will give them a chance to establish and grow before the following winter.

All that said, seeing as how you paid quite a bit for this palm, you may want to wait a bit before pulling the trigger. Sun and warmer temps may yet get it growing. Royals can be tougher than you might expect, i.e., hurricanes. And they are very fast growing when they do so - a handy trait when recovering from 130+ mile winds.

I had a dwarf red spicata coconut that survived the record cold/rain event of Jan. 2010 but was severely damaged. It sat there and did (apparently) nothing for the next 6 months. In July 2010 it started to grow again and never looked back. About the same time I had a Borassodendron machadonis with extensive wind damage that I dug up from the back yard, repotted, then planted in the front. It sat there and did (apparently) nothing for the next 18 months, i.e., spring, summer, fall, winter, spring. But the spear never pulled. Finally, late the 2nd summer the spear began moving. Now the palm is taller than I am.

Unless your palm totally collapses, you have hope.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Based on everyone’s input I’ll give it few more months. Never had a palm completely shut down like this before. Great point about wet vs dry winters. I lived in the Orlando area for most of my childhood so I remember the rain patterns are the opposite of our Mediterranean climate out here in SoCal.

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5 hours ago, The Gerg said:

Here in SoCal we haven’t really hit our consistent spring weather yet as you know. Lots of “May Gray”. I would wait and see how it does throughout the summer after it has seen consistent warmer temperatures. That’s my two cents.

I’ve lived in Rancho Cucamonga for 7 years(West Los Angeles from 2004-2012) this has been the coldest, wettest year since I’ve been here. From December until now chilly and lots of rain. 2 years ago we got a lot of rain too but our spring that year was much warmer. May can be hit or miss with weather here. It’s not super uncommon to be rainy thru the end of May and the first two weeks of June can be a bit gloomy. By middle of June we should stay over 85 degrees until end of October.

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I've found that Roystonea borinquena is better suited to California cool wet winters than R. regia. Mine up here in Northern CA has never been damaged at all any winter since planting it as a small one gallon seedling four years ago. It's a bit slow in growth and is just 5 1/2 feet tall but not bad from a one foot tall seedling to start. 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Elegant Homes and Gardens

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That’s my Northern CA Roystonea borinquena between a Foxy Lady Palm and a Wodyetia bifurcata. The Royal was planted between the other two palms as a tiny 5” seedling four years ago. The three are purposely planted in a tight group whose trunks will eventually meet and fuse together. It’s the warmest part of my yard which is terribly important in a cool climate. D41EDA6B-98AB-4BBF-87E7-DF8BEB1AA714.thumb.jpeg.189fc93f8ae4e3ca67caef44edab105f.jpeg152F5980-7954-44D9-AF01-943956990B16.thumb.jpeg.b9ed2de3232044efb05e60841395c426.jpeg036AE334-C61A-46AB-B1A1-FE792BBEC95A.thumb.jpeg.ad8bb6bd3c5c49825f51c629d1fe3c90.jpeg

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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James, that palm is not dead yet. You'll know by mid summer if it is recovering. I just hope that it didn't come out of a green house because the existing leaves will sun burn and that might be the knockout blow.  But that February we had would have gave any newly planted palm a challenge. That was one of the coldest and wettest on record. It was easily the coldest month of the winter. I can't be too far from you (Mountain & 210) and we had several nights of frost and below 30 temps. I lost at least one palm and had a foxtail totally defoliate after having no problems last year. Anyways good luck with that royal, I hope it comes back strong for you!

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18 hours ago, Sr. Califas said:

James, that palm is not dead yet. You'll know by mid summer if it is recovering. I just hope that it didn't come out of a green house because the existing leaves will sun burn and that might be the knockout blow.  But that February we had would have gave any newly planted palm a challenge. That was one of the coldest and wettest on record. It was easily the coldest month of the winter. I can't be too far from you (Mountain & 210) and we had several nights of frost and below 30 temps. I lost at least one palm and had a foxtail totally defoliate after having no problems last year. Anyways good luck with that royal, I hope it comes back strong for you!

That’s funny I’m just off Archibald and the 210 so we are pretty much the same elevation and climate. Thanks for the input. This palm was not I a greenhouse it was a sizable 24” box palm but was under full canopy of larger royals at the nursery. So i can say it never saw full sun until it made to my place. Had I known Royals were so susceptible in winter I would not have purchased and waited until spring. Be a bummer if I lose it but I gained some valuable knowledge in the process.

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@James B, I feel your pain!

I lost more than a dozen baby royals in pots over this winter, mostly because of that ghastly cold February.

As for yours, alas!  "Coitains, Mugsy." Pull it out, dry tears and start over. Been there done that so many expletive times.

Just get another, plant now, water heavy, feed heavy. Start with a big plant 'cause it can get cold where you are. Get a R. borenquenia (big) or R. regia (enormous) and give plenty of space for leaves to fall. Come visit me to see how big both can be. Shoot me a PM if you want. One of our enormously esteemed growers had some nice big borquies. in fivers, which are plenty big enough.

 

 

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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On 5/17/2019 at 3:35 PM, James B said:

It was the most expensive palm I’ve bought lol. I didn’t realize Royals were so delicate. I’ve planted 30 or so King Palms of various subspecies and never had one go into major shock. I had 2 Maximas I planted in December that did not grow until March but once March came around they woke up and have been throwing leaves since. The spear is firm when I pull it. We saw down to 30 degrees a few nights in December and January. So I am prepared that I made a mistake by purchasing a royal and planting in winter and won’t do it again. If I have to replace it. It will be with a slightly smaller palm that isn’t trunking yet. Thank you for the feedback guys!

 

On 5/17/2019 at 3:39 PM, James B said:

As for highs we have been all over the place this spring. We have had a few days in the 80s and been as high as 87. But the past two weeks we have had a cool spell with lots of rain. Most days highs are between 65-75 going down to a low of 50-55 at night 

 

On 5/18/2019 at 11:57 AM, James B said:

Based on everyone’s input I’ll give it few more months. Never had a palm completely shut down like this before. Great point about wet vs dry winters. I lived in the Orlando area for most of my childhood so I remember the rain patterns are the opposite of our Mediterranean climate out here in SoCal.

Just get a new one.

This was a tough winter for young royals. Big ones, no problem. Rancho C on the slopes is good. In the flats, not so good, but doable.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Consider species with care.

R. borquie I call the "Hulk Hogan Palm" because it's big, imposing but still more or less manageable. R. regia is "Andre the Giant Palm" because they get huge. Just be sure to give room. I have and love both.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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On 5/17/2019 at 5:35 PM, James B said:

It was the most expensive palm I’ve bought lol. I didn’t realize Royals were so delicate. I’ve planted 30 or so King Palms of various subspecies and never had one go into major shock. I had 2 Maximas I planted in December that did not grow until March but once March came around they woke up and have been throwing leaves since. The spear is firm when I pull it. We saw down to 30 degrees a few nights in December and January. So I am prepared that I made a mistake by purchasing a royal and planting in winter and won’t do it again. If I have to replace it. It will be with a slightly smaller palm that isn’t trunking yet. Thank you for the feedback guys!

It is always best to plant palms, even the more cold hardy subtropical ones in the late spring or early summer, especially in a cooler climate like California.

John

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On 5/18/2019 at 5:48 PM, Ben in Norcal said:

My royals completely defoliate in the winter, but come back just fine.  I'd give it some time with warmer weather.

:o

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On 5/18/2019 at 11:57 AM, James B said:

Based on everyone’s input I’ll give it few more months. Never had a palm completely shut down like this before. Great point about wet vs dry winters. I lived in the Orlando area for most of my childhood so I remember the rain patterns are the opposite of our Mediterranean climate out here in SoCal.

Try this viability test:

Nudge the base with your hand or tip of your toe. If it's good and solid, maybe (maybe) there's hope. If it's loose and wobbly, not so good.

 

Or, even better, grab it; if it's cold, it might still be alive enough to recover. If it's close to the surrounding air temp, I'm pretty sure it's dead.

@Phoenikakias, wow, dang, that's amazing! And I thought my place was tough on palms.

So, did your small plants come back from the dead?

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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On 5/25/2019 at 4:23 PM, DoomsDave said:

Try this viability test:

Nudge the base with your hand or tip of your toe. If it's good and solid, maybe (maybe) there's hope. If it's loose and wobbly, not so good.

 

Or, even better, grab it; if it's cold, it might still be alive enough to recover. If it's close to the surrounding air temp, I'm pretty sure it's dead.

@Phoenikakias, wow, dang, that's amazing! And I thought my place was tough on palms.

So, did your small plants come back from the dead?

Dave when you say base do you mean where the base of the trunk meets the soil? Or where the crown shaft meets the center spear?

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Base meets soil 

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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5 hours ago, James B said:

Dave when you say base do you mean where the base of the trunk meets the soil? Or where the crown shaft meets the center spear?

Base meets soil 

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It was solid there. But all of the rotted cronshafts were flimsy and did not feel secure. The spear was but the palm just looked terrible. So sadly I cut it down and dug it up. Major bummer. Gonna replace it with a slightly smaller royal that isn’t trunking  yet. But it will have 6 months to establish its roots before winter starts to roll back in.

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Just make sure to buy it and get it planted pronto to make sure it has basically the full season to establish.

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20 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Just make sure to buy it and get it planted pronto to make sure it has basically the full season to establish.

True story purchased today being delivered Thursday afternoon. I’ll have it in the ground before sundown. It grows as fast PalmTalk members say should be the size of the previous one within a year. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got it replaced with a new Royal that is a bit smaller but just about to start showing rings as the bottom leaf bases fall off

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@James B, you go!

You've put it in a perfect spot, away from almost everything that might get crushed by falling leaves. If it's a regia, those leaves can weigh 50 pounds each. If it's a borquie, closer to 30.

Water and feed, and keep us apprized, and PM me if you ever want a visit.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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5 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

@James B, you go!

You've put it in a perfect spot, away from almost everything that might get crushed by falling leaves. If it's a regia, those leaves can weigh 50 pounds each. If it's a borquie, closer to 30.

Water and feed, and keep us apprized, and PM me if you ever want a visit.

Dave I’ve been really wanting to check out your place! My wife is due with our second daughter July 7th so big life events going on. For sure though this summer I’ll reach out to you to set it up!

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