Tale of 2 mules

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Planted these twins same day same manner I have basically treated them the same way since planted after a mild winter the one on the right seemed to have had a lil winter burn not sure tho.

Could this be the case of over fertilizing the smaller one I doubt from not enough fertilizer , I'm kinda at a loss my wife wants to give up on it but I check for new growth everyday which it is growing just nothing compared to the other. Any ideas

[The Gerg]

Are mule palms pretty readily accessible near you? If so, if it were me I would probably dig it out and put it back in a pot (rather than dumping it) and see if I could nurse it back to health. In the meantime of course plant a new healthy one as close to the same size as possible to your other healthy one to replace it. That may make your wife happy too. 

 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

5 hours ago, The Gerg said:

Are mule palms pretty readily accessible near you? If so, if it were me I would probably dig it out and put it back in a pot (rather than dumping it) and see if I could nurse it back to health. In the meantime of course plant a new healthy one as close to the same size as possible to your other healthy one to replace it. That may make your wife happy too. 

 

Thanks greg for the advice mule are kinda readily available unfortunately the size that my other has grown to is quite expensive now =/ i planted those 1 year ago as 7g plants 

[AZPalms]

How much did you fertilizer did you use? How much water does it receive? As it warms up my guess is that it will begin to recover. No spear pull? I’d mark the spear and  I’d leave it.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

The weird part is you look at the palm on the left and I look like I have a green thumb then you look at the right and I obviously don't know what I'm doing haha Just weird is all. No spear pull at all just slow growing and cant hold onto leaves like its counterpart. The biggest difference is the 1 on the right could be planted a lil bit deeper then the other and with how much rain we get out here maybe suffering from root rot ?

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Update: things have gotten a lot worse, seems my better looking palm the new fronds are browning =/ So instead of 1 sick mule there are 2 now smh

So I have been doing more research and I'm still a lil bit concerned it could be root rot which I was gonna do a soil drench with captan as others on here have suggested. Then by reading up on frond discoloration the Florida palm nutritional deficiency study says there is a good chance I have a manganese deficiency spurred on by possibly too much nitrogen from grass fertilizer when I broadcast without a care in the world haha. So possibly I have created an imbalance with quick release fertilizer. My soil is gumbo clay but has been amended pretty well since this is the 2nd set of palms in this location from the 2018 freeze killing =( Coconut queens use to preside there

 

[HtownPalms]

Hey! Fellow Houstonian here. I don't know if it has anything to do with your palms, but I have seen quite a number of decent size palms in the Pearland area die this spring. A lot of them even collapsed over. I heard that there is a fungus that can attack the palms roots then work it's way up into the trunk and eventually kills the tree. Since we just had such a wet winter maybe something like that is affecting your palms? That's just a guess though. Good luck. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

1 hour ago, HtownPalms said:

Hey! Fellow Houstonian here. I don't know if it has anything to do with your palms, but I have seen quite a number of decent size palms in the Pearland area die this spring. A lot of them even collapsed over. I heard that there is a fungus that can attack the palms roots then work it's way up into the trunk and eventually kills the tree. Since we just had such a wet winter maybe something like that is affecting your palms? That's just a guess though. Good luck. 

Hey neighbor haha

I really hope it isn't some kind of fungus I tried to look it up and didn't find anything on occurrences in the area. So maybe its real random and doesn't become an epidemic or anything like what Florida has been dealing with =/ Ill keep you posted on anything I come up with.

[Merlyn]

8 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Update: things have gotten a lot worse, seems my better looking palm the new fronds are browning =/ So instead of 1 sick mule there are 2 now smh

So I have been doing more research and I'm still a lil bit concerned it could be root rot which I was gonna do a soil drench with captan as others on here have suggested. Then by reading up on frond discoloration the Florida palm nutritional deficiency study says there is a good chance I have a manganese deficiency spurred on by possibly too much nitrogen from grass fertilizer when I broadcast without a care in the world haha. So possibly I have created an imbalance with quick release fertilizer. My soil is gumbo clay but has been amended pretty well since this is the 2nd set of palms in this location from the 2018 freeze killing =( Coconut queens use to preside there

Manganese deficiency is a possibility, especially if the new fronds are really bad but the old ones still look okay.  Very alkaline soil, root burn from lawn fertilizer, root rot all could cause or be contributing factors.  A sprinkled handful of Manganese Sulfate granular would help, if that's the cause.

Another possibility is fungus, since you had a couple of Coconut queens in that spot die.  Being a Syagrus hybrid, mules are (arguably) just as susceptible to the diseases that commonly kill queens.  That's one reason I'm not a huge fan of mules, and only have one myself.  If your previous Coconut queens developed a fungus like Ganoderma or Fusarium, then planting another susceptible palm in that spot is a death sentence.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

9 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Manganese deficiency is a possibility, especially if the new fronds are really bad but the old ones still look okay.  Very alkaline soil, root burn from lawn fertilizer, root rot all could cause or be contributing factors.  A sprinkled handful of Manganese Sulfate granular would help, if that's the cause.

Another possibility is fungus, since you had a couple of Coconut queens in that spot die.  Being a Syagrus hybrid, mules are (arguably) just as susceptible to the diseases that commonly kill queens.  That's one reason I'm not a huge fan of mules, and only have one myself.  If your previous Coconut queens developed a fungus like Ganoderma or Fusarium, then planting another susceptible palm in that spot is a death sentence.

So i lost my coconut queens to 20 degrees and freezing rain they went full brown nothing green left in them which was really sad cause they were becoming beautiful specimens. They too 24 degrees with freezing rain the year before without any burn =) 

So it seems pretty possible i have done this to my palms myself for straight negligence =/ live and learn right. Ordered Down to Earth Organic Langbeinite Fertilizer Mix 0-0-22 and some bonide captan for soil drench should i try one before the other or does it matter ? 

[Merlyn]

I was just thinking that if your queens died they could have developed opportunistic fungal infections before you removed them.  Ganoderma has been theorized (not proven) to maybe be an opportunistic infector of palms that are already sick.  So a palm may die of some other disease or cold (like yours) and Ganoderma could develop before it's removed.  See the thread "Ganoderma Hell" for more info. 

I wasn't aware that Captan made a good soil drench, but I have never used it.  I've used Banrot as a soil drench or foliar spray with good results.

Langbeinite is a great fertilizer for potassium-deficient plants, but it won't help if you need Manganese!  It's sul-po-mag or sulfur, potassium, magnesium.  I use Rite-Green Manganese Sulfate for my cycads, a 4lb bag at HD or Lowe's is something like $8.  A sprinkled handful per palm is probably good enough to correct a minor or transient deficiency.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

21 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I was just thinking that if your queens died they could have developed opportunistic fungal infections before you removed them.  Ganoderma has been theorized (not proven) to maybe be an opportunistic infector of palms that are already sick.  So a palm may die of some other disease or cold (like yours) and Ganoderma could develop before it's removed.  See the thread "Ganoderma Hell" for more info. 

I wasn't aware that Captan made a good soil drench, but I have never used it.  I've used Banrot as a soil drench or foliar spray with good results.

Langbeinite is a great fertilizer for potassium-deficient plants, but it won't help if you need Manganese!  It's sul-po-mag or sulfur, potassium, magnesium.  I use Rite-Green Manganese Sulfate for my cycads, a 4lb bag at HD or Lowe's is something like $8.  A sprinkled handful per palm is probably good enough to correct a minor or transient deficiency.

Thanks Merlyn for your insight this is exactly the reason why i joined palmtalk. For trials and tribulations of others and there experiences. Looking up both banrot and rite green now =)

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

UPDATE : After treating the frizzle top with manganese the frizzled fronds have all spear pulled now. Which im treating with hydrogen peroxide and getting alot of fizzling. Seems the ants were in on the decaying fronds =/ Still got my fingers crossed the palm will pull the through. The other palm is definitely picking up speed hoping to have a full set of fronds before winter hits =) 

[Ras]

@OC2Texaspalmlvr

Hello fellow Mule Palm parent. How did you make out with your sick ones? Hopefully they pulled through. I recently got a Mule which hasn't been doing too great, and looking for some bright spots from others.

Cheers!

[Collectorpalms]

Anytime I have seen spear pull/browning in SE Texas, in Butia or Butia hybrids, and is not related to cold, they have died.

[DoomsDave]

@OC2Texaspalmlvr do please give us an update, hope it's good.

Praying for the best if it isn't . . . .

[NorCalWill]

It could be any number of things, some of which you may not be able to solve. It could be the tree that all the neighborhood dogs prefer. The bottom line is that it isn't happy where it is, so I'd move it to another spot in the yard and see if it's condition improves.

[sonoranfans]

If it is a deficiency, manganese is one of the first nutrients to become unavailable at higher pH.  I had frizzletop on my queens in arizona from alkaline soils.  Some mules may have recieved the genes that are related to this sensitivity to Mn deficiency.  You should probably test your soil pH.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

On 3/18/2021 at 5:21 AM, DoomsDave said:

@OC2Texaspalmlvr do please give us an update, hope it's good.

Praying for the best if it isn't . . . .

I actually moved on from these 2 Mules. The sickly one never spread it roots out I basically dug it out with the root ball still looking like the pot I bought it in. The frizzled top palm I dug up after unsuccessful surgery. I replaced the palms with Bizzies which I'm hoping I was able to protect enough to get thru our horrible freeze. All fronds are burnt to a brown crisp , but the newest fronds look great and are showing growth so far.