I want to grow a large hardy Agave in the Ground

[Palm crazy]

Can anyone suggest any tall 6' or taller hardy agaves I might be able to grow in the PNW...I am looking for some that can take 10F or colder.  Should be a few but have no idea what they are. I have a spot that is mostly dry underneath the edge of evergreen trees I think would work nicely. Thanks! 

Agave slamania var. ferox is the only one I can think of and it grows to maybe 5' tall and is hardy to maybe 10F?  Photo by Paul Hermans.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Chester B]

That's the one I was going to suggest.

http://www.thedangergarden.com/2012/04/another-enormous-agave-here-in-portland.html

I've seen this agave the in person the very first time I came to Portland, it was huge.  One of the owners of Xera plants owns that house.  I've been told for agaves to do well its best to plant on a mound of very gravelly mix so that there is no water retention.

I've had success with two species but they're not huge ones - A "sharkskin" and A ovatifolia.

[Palm crazy]

That is a nice one there a big one in WA at Windcliff nursery that's is at least that big.  Sharkskin and Ovatifolia are two of my favorites.  I have the best soil for this one since it mostly sandy loam. I also have a big pile of 50% gravel and native soil in a 30-gallon tub plus smaller ones to make a mount of fast draining soil.  The cacti nursery I use is all sold out of 1 gallon but does have 5 gallons but not sure if they will ship that big. At least I have an idea of what to look for locally.  

Thanks for the comments and backing up what I was thinking! 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Josue Diaz]

I think the weberi I sent are hardy down to 15F at least. It gets incredibly massive under the right conditions. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Josue Diaz

[Palm crazy]

Just got off the phone with a grower in Fallbrook, CA and he said that A. salmiana is only hardy 22F-25F, bummer really like that one.  When I brought up his website says it hardy to 5F he replied  "no it is not that hardy", Whatever!  Var. ferox is still my first choice. 

Josue that's good to know, and both of them have rooted nicely. I may try one as an experiment to test it out for winter hardiness. But I still like to find something around the 10F or colder.  Thanks, Man! 

Here is the planting area which is totally dry this time of year unless we get a really Big rainfall.  Agave will go between the two azaleas.  I've also thought of putting a 15-gallon Rhododendron sinogrande but they are very expensive. Or maybe an Azalea Mt. Saint Hellen's but really like the idea of big Agave. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Palm crazy]

Josue,  San Marco Growers has A. weberi "Reiner's Selection" hardy to 10F-15F,  5'  tall to 6'-10' wide, is that the same as the one I got from you?

[Meangreen94z]

Salmiana is hardier than 20*F but a lot of the agave sold as Salmiana variants are hybrids, sometimes they don’t even have Salmiana in them. PlantsDelightsNursery has a Salmiana looking Agave called Bluebell Giant. It’s believed to have Americana, Asperrima, and Gentryi in it. They claim it will achieve 7 feet in height and possibly 12+ Ft width. Their Nursery is in North Carolina and has seen sub 10*F weather.

https://www.plantdelights.com/products/agave-pseudoferox-bluebell-giants

The one I bought in a 2.5” container grew rapidly last summer. I moved to a rent house  over the winter while I look for property,and put it in a shady spot to slow it down for now. It has handled everything including the backyard flooding last week.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Meangreen94z

[Meangreen94z]

Other agave you might look into are Ovatifolia. It will achieve 5-6 ft width, but not the height you desire. But the Agave is spectacular in person in larger sizes. It will handle your cold and wet fine.

Agave Montana can potentially reach the size you desire but it’s a slower growing agave. It will handle your cold fine , but in wet conditions needs to be elevated in fast draining soil, and positioned to get the most sunlight possible.  

[Meangreen94z]

Here is what a Agave Montana can potentially achieve in the right conditions

ovatifolia

another one you might consider is the Ovatifolia hybrid “Huesteca Canyon Giant” it can achieve your desired size. It does ok in wet environments as long as elevated.

 

https://www.plantdelights.com/products/agave-huasteca-giant

 

 

[Meangreen94z]

Here is my “Bluebell Giant”, using my size 11 foot for comparison. This agave came from a  3.5” container(I mistyped 2.5 above and now it won’t let me edit)last August, so it has grown quite a bit. It has the Salmiana look despite no Salmiana lineage.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Meangreen94z

[Merlyn]

My notes on Weberi didn't have it hardy below 20F, but I don't know that for sure.  For large agave, the Guiengola and Attenuata are large but won't handle the cold.  Ovatifolia is a good choice, as are varieties of Salmiani/Gentryi/etc.  I have a "Bluebell Giants" and a "Stairway to Heaven" from Plant Delights.  Both are dark green, big and very stabby.  The Bluebell Giants grew from a 4" pot to about 1.5' diameter since last August, it's my fastest growing agave.  With the rapid growth I have no doubt it'll get to the 8-12' diameter that they think it'll do.  I'm glad I left a LOT of space for it in my agave bed!  One other that's neat (and might be cold hardy) is Gentryi "Jaws" with blood red teeth on the new leaves.

The DangerGarden place is a great read if you are looking to see what may survive in the PNW.  I'd spend a day skimming through the history to see what they managed to keep alive.

[Meangreen94z]

I didn’t have any in my yard at the time,but city landscaping nearby has both the green and blue form of Weberi. The green form took slight leaf damage during an ice storm that hit 18-19*F in January 2018. The blue form showed no damage when I inspected after, so I would say if you’re  dropping to 10*F, Weberi is probably a waste of time. They might survive with some help,but would spend most of their life stunted and disfigured.

[Palm crazy]

Thank you all for the great examples and advice on growing agaves. 

My biggest problem is to much rain in Fall/Winter total of 55" with 75% falling in fall/winter.  And the fact that it is so cloudy and rainy with very little sunlight in winter they just go downhill, I'm not kidding when I say it can rain for three weeks straight, have one sunny day and then rain for another three weeks. Seattle and Portland only have 30" to 37" and lot sunnier days in winter.  unfortunately for me, my garden is also mostly shady.  So I may have to just grow a big agave in a big pot and put it inside the unheated greenhouse for winter.  I will try my new spot with the A. weberi and see how it goes. 

The only agave that does good for me in the ground is A. bracteosa.  I also just love A. guiengola blue and creme brulee. Both are on my want list. 

Here are some of my agaves that grow on my porch all year long and are kept very dry. 

In order of photos.

Parryi x truncata I think that's what it is, sucker just a little bit. 

Ovatifola 'frosty blue'

Stricta

Ovatifola 'vanzie'

Schidgera 'shirito no Ohi' grow in heated shead in winter.

Weberi

Thank you all so very much for such great photos and suggestion. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, Palm crazy said:

That one does not look like an Ovatifolia.  If looks like a variety of Salmiana / Ferox or hybrid.  Though it does look a little like a young Montana, though the teeth aren't quite right.  Possibly Borvicornuta too, though that's a little unusual...but some types have the wavy edges like yours.

The Parryi "JC Raulston" version might not be quite as big as you want, but the DangerGarden blog shows that as fairly tough in Oregon.  That and the Ovatifolia varieties might be your best bet there.  

[Meangreen94z]

Unfortunately the agave that I’ve found to do well in heavy periods of rain/cloud cover, mostly don’t meet your hardiness requirements. The only one I can think of is Ovatifolia, but you’ve claimed it hasn’t worked. Have you tried a standard Ovatifolia? I wouldn’t waste your time with Parryi. Every form Ive tried including JC Raulston, either struggle or just completely rot away in heavy rains. Montana also wouldn’t do well under cloud cover like that.

[Meangreen94z]

One that just popped into my head, Agave Baccarat(Montana x Gentryi), has been bullet proof during heavy periods of rain(3 weeks straight of heavy tropical rain last summer) and has a claimed hardiness of 0*F. I would just elevate it slightly to prevent the roots from sitting in standing water. It’s slower growing and only achieves 3-4 foot diameter, but it’s one of the most spectacular agave in person. Here is mine:

Edited May 21, 2019 by Meangreen94z

[Palm crazy]

The 'Vanzie has been growing in part shade this spring so I put it out in the open hoping it will bring out the light color, I guess time will tell what it really is. 

Tropical summer rain is not the same as cold 45F winter rain and when it's not raining its missy foggy. LOL.  Moss grows like crazy in winter. 

I like the idea of the hardiness of 10F since It's only gone down to the low teens three times in 25 years. Most winters are around 15F -18F.  The Gentryi hybrid looks cool and I like the red thorns.  I did have A. sharkskin in the ground for 8 years before it died one winter and it wasn't even that super cold... go figure! 

DANGER garden blog is awesome and she has maybe 20" of less rain than I do a year. Makes a big difference up here.  I did enjoy the garden and pics!  For some strange reason, she knows who I am since I use to post on the Pacific Northwest Palm and exotic plant board.  One of my hardy bromeliad she mentions on the blog with a photo I took and then discover she already had a small one, lol. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Josue Diaz]

On 5/14/2019 at 3:22 PM, Palm crazy said:

Josue,  San Marco Growers has A. weberi "Reiner's Selection" hardy to 10F-15F,  5'  tall to 6'-10' wide, is that the same as the one I got from you?

I honestly can't remember where I got this agave from. It was originally planted at my parents house, the pups from it were planted at my place, and the pups from mine are the ones I sent to you. I would think that what I sent is the pure species.

[Meangreen94z]

We have wet winters as well, it rained off and on the majority of February. The Baccarat has never shown any signs of damage. I lost several agave and a lot them took damage(including most of my Montana) during the 3 week deluge last summer. My elevated fast draining bed was reduced to pudding. 

The Agave I’ve found that seems to do the best in a wet environment is Americana, but only good to 15*F(Protoamericana may be hardier)They can sit in standing water for periods of time with no ill effect. In fact the 7 I had grew quite a bit during /immediately after Hurricane Harvey(60” of rain in 3-4 days). They were planted at ground level.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Meangreen94z

[Palm crazy]

Thanks, Josue for your response, I think your right it is the pure species. 

Meangreen94z,  with so many good choices I may have to build a burn and try as many as I can find and see what happens.  I have not tried Protoamericana so that sounds like a good choice too. All I remember about Americana is it puts out pups like crazy, will have to try that one too. Thanks, Guys!  I have a clear tarp that  I might try to put over the agave bed to keep them drier, that might be all I need beside raised beds. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Merlyn]

I like the idea of a raised fast-draining bed with a couple of possible long-term options.  I made an "Agave bed" here with 50-50 sand/garden soil raised about 2-3" above the surrounding area, and topped with red lava rock.  The weed growth this spring has been absurdly annoying, but I'm getting it under control.  Here's the labeled pic from last summer, just after planting.  There are a few Americana in there unlabeled, just as fillers until the "big ones" start seriously growing.  Though it won't ever get really large, the "Dragon Toes" is probably the fastest growing, even more than the Bluebell Giants.

I would definitely agree with the comments on Americana pupping, I have 3 large ones (about 3-4' diameter) in the front beds.  They are sprouting pups fast and at a good distance away.  One of them popped up about 10' away!  Each one has grown about 5-10 pups/year, so many that I have no idea what to do with them...

[Chester B]

10 hours ago, Palm crazy said:

DANGER garden blog is awesome and she has maybe 20" of less rain than I do a year. Makes a big difference up here.

Even with this she loses a bunch of agaves each year.  They are tough to grow even here.  I met a landscaper/plant collector who had some at his house and he had them planted on a very well raised berm with almost pure gravel.  He had mixed results. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Chester B

[Palm crazy]

Chester that makes me feel better, lol.  What's funny at a local park a few blocks from me is Agave 'blue glow' which is not that hardy but it has never had damage at all and keeps growing bigger it actually mature specimen. Growing in full sun and has other smaller plants surrounding it to protect from cold winter winds. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow. 

Merlyn 2220 that's a nice looking agave bed, some I have not heard of before.  Funny thing for me is I can not have small lava rocks as a ground cover because in three years it would be mostly covered in moss. lol.

Here is a nice Agave parryi (some are hybrids) growing at Jungle Fever Nursery in Tacoma 8b WA with 40 inches of yearly rainfall and 4" of snow on average. These have already bloomed. So in the right location with plenty of sunlight, they do ok here.  Photos are from other people on the net. I think the one I have is a hybrid too since it does pup but not too badly.  Tacoma Zoo is supposed to have some really nice agaves I've been told.  The guy that does all the landscaping and hardscape is really into agaves.  One of these days I need to check it out. 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Palm crazy]

Here is the Agave 'Blue Glow' in a city park close to where I live.  z8-11. This one has seen 16F with no damage and 20" of snow last winter.  So in the right location with good drainage and some surrounding protection, some agaves will grow in my area. I'm thinking the rocks warm up in winter and help a lot.  Pictures were taken at lunchtime today. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Palm crazy

[Merlyn]

Blue Glow is one of my favorites!  I have 3 or 4 plus a couple of pups, they are kinda slow growing but really pretty!  I wonder if the reason they do okay up there is not any inherent cold hardiness, but that the leaves get narrower towards the base and maybe don't collect garbage, leaves and water?  The Ovatifolia all look like they have lots of crud sitting in the center, maybe that contributes to rotting in the winter?

[Palm crazy]

4 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Blue Glow is one of my favorites!  I have 3 or 4 plus a couple of pups, they are kinda slow growing but really pretty!  I wonder if the reason they do okay up there is not any inherent cold hardiness, but that the leaves get narrower towards the base and maybe don't collect garbage, leaves and water?  The Ovatifolia all look like they have lots of crud sitting in the center, maybe that contributes to rotting in the winter?

That is for sure one of the reason!  My Ovatifolia holds way to much water on the leaves making them damage. Any type of overhead trees is just not good for agaves. Like you said they collect leaves and the leaves get wet and rot the leaf bases and then there are all the winter weeds that collect inside. 

[Meangreen94z]

Once my Blue Glow grew to a decent size they haven’t taken any damage. I threw a blanket on them but they’ve seen 18/19*F with thick ice. They also handle a wet climate well, no rotting.

Im surprised that Parryi Truncata looks that good. Mine always shed leaves/rot in wet weather. I’ve actually had better luck with Parryi Neomexicana than truncata , couesii , or var. Parryi 

[Merlyn]

Somewhat ironically I went out to plant a couple of still-in-Lowe's-pots Blue Glow agaves, and one of them had developed a serious case of rot.  The lower leaves were melted brown and the center inside the "new" leaves was translucent goop.  Back to the store it goes, it's actually my first agave fatality here in FL.

[Meangreen94z]

Yeah you usually need to grab xeric plants as soon as they hit Lowe’s or Home Depot. They like to water them 2 times a day like they are tropical, and half the time they are stocked under shade in the covered area. Not a good combination .

[PalmatierMeg]

I have had mixed results on many agaves as my hot, humid rainy summers cause many species to rot. I've had particular trouble with many so-called blue agaves like parryi, etc. Agave americana mediopicta have done well and gotten very large in my yard. Merlyn, I found that as my americanas grew larger and larger, they offset much less than when younger. I have one Agave Blue Glow that is small-medium and always looks perfect no matter the weather. My absolute favorite agave is the original ovatifolia I got from Plant Delights. Their showpiece plant shrugged off their cold, rainy, sometimes icy winters. My original plant also takes my rainy summers and always looks pristine. I tried cv "Vanzie" but it didn't survive so I backed away from the other cultivars. I'm not sure what there is about those cultivars that makes them less hardy, at least during my summers. About a year ago I bought a second ovatifolia from PDN and it is starting to look like a miniature of my adult. Unfortunately (or not) both ovatifolia and Blue Glow are non-offsetting, which increases their rarity.

[Merlyn]

7 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I have had mixed results on many agaves as my hot, humid rainy summers cause many species to rot. I've had particular trouble with many so-called blue agaves like parryi, etc. Agave americana mediopicta have done well and gotten very large in my yard. Merlyn, I found that as my americanas grew larger and larger, they offset much less than when younger. I have one Agave Blue Glow that is small-medium and always looks perfect no matter the weather. My absolute favorite agave is the original ovatifolia I got from Plant Delights. Their showpiece plant shrugged off their cold, rainy, sometimes icy winters. My original plant also takes my rainy summers and always looks pristine. I tried cv "Vanzie" but it didn't survive so I backed away from the other cultivars. I'm not sure what there is about those cultivars that makes them less hardy, at least during my summers. About a year ago I bought a second ovatifolia from PDN and it is starting to look like a miniature of my adult. Unfortunately (or not) both ovatifolia and Blue Glow are non-offsetting, which increases their rarity.

That's good to hear that they slow down offsetting with age, mine are currently a continuous pain in the butt!!!  I found one offset popping up in the middle of a huge clump of orange Bird of Paradise, that one was a pain to remove.  Others that have done well here in N Orlando area are Angustifolia variegated, Celsii multicolor (yellow/green) and especially the "Dragon Toes" hybrid.  I do get lower leaf rot on Americana and cold rot damage on Desmettiana, but suprisingly the "cold sensitive" Attenuata went through this last winter with zero damage.  For me the agave's ability to handle the cold seems to be related to position.  The Desmettiana in a part-shade spot (with no AM sun) both were 20% frost-burned even though we only hit ~33F twice last winter.  The two identical ones that were in a full sun location look pristine.  I suspect that the early AM sun in my main agave bed is critical for the couple of marginally cold-hardy ones.

[Merlyn]

10 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Yeah you usually need to grab xeric plants as soon as they hit Lowe’s or Home Depot. They like to water them 2 times a day like they are tropical, and half the time they are stocked under shade in the covered area. Not a good combination .

The Lowe's around here generally do a decent job of making a small agave/cactus/aloe section that doesn't get watered very often.  But they put the Lophantha, Angustifolia, Desmettiana and Blue Glow over with the elephant ears and bananas.  Durrrrrrrrrrrr... 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I didnt see havardiana listed. They are significantly harder than Montana. 

Havardiana and ovatifolia are 100% hardy in a wet zone 8a. Weberi will die. Single digits will hurt or kill Montana if its wet.

[Meangreen94z]

I don’t know if they would do well in a wet overcast environment like that, which is why I didn’t recommend them. From my experience they need a decent amount of intense sunlight, low humidity, and moderate or less rain to survive. They are extremely cold hardy though.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Meangreen94z

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

They make it up here under deep shade with sprinklers hiting them without issue, they just grow twice as big twice as fast.  Not the optimal place IMO but to my surprise they do just fine.

[Palm crazy]

Here are some Agaves that are on my wishlist from one place.

 Guiengola and 'creme burlee' these two will grow in pots,  Americana ssp. protoamericana,  Parryi var. huachucensis,  Weberi Arizona form with very small teeth, Blue Glow. 

[Meangreen94z]

Guiengola hasn’t done well for me, it regressed during a period of heavy rain even though it looks more tropical. I had what was once a medium sized huachucensis that has been reduced to an unhappy core. It’s in different elevated  soil and surviving but like all Parryi they don’t like there soil wet for extended periods. Weberi “Arizona Star”, Protoamericana, and Blue Glow have all done great for me.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Meangreen94z

[Merlyn]

Here are photos of my Weberi "Arizona Star" and what was sold to me as a Guengiola Creme Brulee.  I'm pretty sure it's actually a Celsii "Multicolor" because the leaf shape is all wrong for a Guengiola.  It may be because it's in full sun so the leaves are shorter.  But I like it anyway, it was $13 from Planet Desert.  The Weberi "Arizona Star" is also only a questionable ID, I rescued it from a local nursery for $20 in pretty poor shape.  It's just starting to fill out a few new decent leaves this spring.

Also below is my Bluebell Giants from PDN, it was a 4" plant last August and grew pretty well over the winter with only a little discoloration of the lower leaves.  It only saw ~33F twice this winter, so it wasn't a real test of hardiness.

[Palm crazy]

3 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Guiengola hasn’t done well for me, it regressed during a period of heavy rain even though it looks more tropical. I had what was once a medium sized huachucensis that has been reduced to an unhappy core. It’s in different elevated  soil and surviving but like all Parryi they don’t like there soil wet for extended periods. Weberi “Arizona Star”, Protoamericana, and Blue Glow have all done great for me.

That's good to know... Luckily we don't have a rainy summer it is very dry and sunny here. 

[Palm crazy]

1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Here are photos of my Weberi "Arizona Star" and what was sold to me as a Guengiola Creme Brulee.  I'm pretty sure it's actually a Celsii "Multicolor" because the leaf shape is all wrong for a Guengiola.  It may be because it's in full sun so the leaves are shorter.  But I like it anyway, it was $13 from Planet Desert.  The Weberi "Arizona Star" is also only a questionable ID, I rescued it from a local nursery for $20 in pretty poor shape.  It's just starting to fill out a few new decent leaves this spring.

Also below is my Bluebell Giants from PDN, it was a 4" plant last August and grew pretty well over the winter with only a little discoloration of the lower leaves.  It only saw ~33F twice this winter, so it wasn't a real test of hardiness.

Nice agave,  yeah that does not look like G. creme burlee to me either and that agave grows in full sun in SoCali.  Those are some good prices for agaves.