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Palms for an 8B food forest


Brian F. Austin

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What would be some good edible palms to plant in a Texas zone 8b food forest? I can only think of maybe Phoenix Dactylifera and Butia Captita?

Any other non-palm trees that come to mind? I'm planning on growing from seed...  loquats, pecans, peaches. And lots of fig trees from cuttings.

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What is your soil like? What's the PH about? 

 

 

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Depends on your definition of "edible". Serenoa repens might qualify depending on your tastebuds. 

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

Depends on your definition of "edible". Serenoa repens might qualify depending on your tastebuds. 

Very true.  Phoenix canariensis also has edible fruit but it's certainly not tasty.  As far as non-palms I'd recommend kumquat, calamondin, pomelo and satsuma as cold-hardy citrus.  Improved Meyer lemon might also be hardy in 8b but for sure it is a good container citrus.  There's probably some other new cold-hardy varieties out there.  Loquats are a good choice - drought and heat tolerant but need good irrigation to produce good fruit.  I'd also recommend native persimmons Diospyros texana and virginiana) which do very well in our area along with some of the Japanese varieties as long as they get enough chill hours.

Jon

Jon Sunder

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Hi RJ, I'm not sure of the ph, I believe it's slightly acidic. It is 100+ acres of land in Lee co. part of the post oak savannah ecoregion and the soil is sandy in most areas,  underlying clay around the bottoms.

Thanks Jon for the recommendations. I know a local farmer that planted a large number of Satsumas. I've never heard of calamondin. Loquats do great here. This spring was a bumper crop.

I forgot persimmons, I should be able to get lots of local seeds of those.

 

 

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RJ

Remember that the stone fruit etc wont come true to variety from seed. So unless you root cuttings or graft you will not get exactly the same plant.  You should also give European olive a try. Probably Arbequina variety.  There are some Olive ranches beginning to spring up around your area.  I have tried different varieties where I am but it gets too cold and will kill them eventually.  I have a sister outside Brenham that has olives that have been in ground for years and are quite large now. I have had trouble with citrus where I live.  Again gets too cold in winter.  Maybe the kumquats, calamodins,  etc.  I know of a large fruit producing tangerine in Austin so it can be done there.   Just a thought.  I am at the northern edge of Zone 8b.  I have date palms in the ground for nearly 10 years, they bloom but I believe they are both female, so no fruits.  Pomegranate will also grow for you.   Find the hardiest varieties and give it all a try anyway.   Good luck

jimmyt

 

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22 minutes ago, RaleighNC said:

Don't forget pawpaws.

YES! A favorite of mine. If your soil is acidic 5-6 there are lots of chestnut varieties you can grow, persimmons was already noted   Hazelnuts, walnut varieties, although they may not be easy crackers like the English walnut . Mulberries, look into pine nut varieties that will handle your heat ... your msrginsl for Korean pine nut. Chinese quince if your not too humid .

More will come to me im

Sure ;)  

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Thanks for all the ideas. I’ve got a long list now to research, I’ll compile it here....

I didn’t even think of pine nuts. I collected a lot of piñon nuts in New Mexico last year. I should try to grow them out. I was thinking the climate was too different for piñon but I won’t know if I don’t try.

Are there different varieties of Pindo palms that are better for fruit production?

For date palms I have some halawi dates that are supposedly better at fruiting in humid regions.

 

 

Edited by Brian F. Austin
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1 hour ago, Brian F. Austin said:

Are there different varieties of Pindo palms that are better for fruit production?

I've never heard of any varieties, but who knows. 

I would like to also add a few non palm recommendations.  Pakistan mulberry has been a very good tree for me.  Incredibly fast growing, and produced in its second year in the ground.  They produce enormous fruit (3"-4")  and a ton of them.

Elderberries (Sambucus) have a wide variety of uses, and again grow very fast and produce fruit almost immediately.  You'll need two different varieties to get fruit.  I'm growing York and Nova.  Plus they will grow in swampy areas if you have any.

Here's a local nursery a few minutes from my home that specialized in permaculture and does a ton of mail order plants.  I'm not sure if you've seen them before but their website has a ton of interesting edible and companion plants.

https://onegreenworld.com/

Good luck!

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Casimorea pringleii has been hardy for me in Austin. I either need another plant to get fruit or they they are slow to mature.

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Clay

South Padre Island, Zone 10b until the next vortex.

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17 minutes ago, Austinpalm said:

Casimorea pringleii has been hardy for me in Austin. I either need another plant to get fruit or they they are slow to mature.

Is it evergreen in Austin?

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Is it evergreen in Austin?

I cannot remember if I had it during the winter of 2010-2011 (coldest winter in my recollection since at least 2000). But it has been evergreen thru all other winters to my recollection.

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Clay

South Padre Island, Zone 10b until the next vortex.

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19 minutes ago, Austinpalm said:

I cannot remember if I had it during the winter of 2010-2011 (coldest winter in my recollection since at least 2000). But it has been evergreen thru all other winters to my recollection.

Nice! Would love to see some pics. How is the growth rate?

Thanks

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Don't think anyone has mentioned jujubes yet. Gotta have those. 

I'm a big fan of the astringent type Asian persimmons like "Hachiya", one of the best fruits for zone 8 imo. 

Also pineapple guava/feijoa. 

Why grow from seed? I would get some grafted loquats and grafted low-chill peach like "Tropic Snow". Not sure how reliable loquat will be as a fruiting tree for you, you might only get fruit after mild winters like this past one. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Casimiroa pringlei has been cold hardy in Dallas and San Marcos.  It requires a male & female plant to get fruit.  I would add: Blanco crabapple, Mexican plum, mayhaw, plums, and blackberries. 

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Casimiroa pringlei has been cold hardy in Dallas and San Marcos.  It requires a male & female plant to get fruit.  I would add: Blanco crabapple, Mexican plum, mayhaw, plums, anacua, goji berry, choke berry, agarita and blackberries. 

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3 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

Casimiroa pringlei has been cold hardy in Dallas and San Marcos.  It requires a male & female plant to get fruit.  I would add: Blanco crabapple, Mexican plum, mayhaw, plums, anacua, goji berry, choke berry, agarita and blackberries. 

:greenthumb:  Anacua, Agarita, Persimmon ( Texas native and Fuyu / Hatchiya ) and Blackberries.. Would also add natives like Brazil, Condalia hookeri, Saffron Plum, Sideroxylon celestrinum  ( Good for Wine, Jelly supposedly ..like Agarita ) & Desert Hackberry, Celtis pallida.

W/ some protection thru the worst of / ..any freak winters, you might be able to grow Suriname Cherry ( Black -fruited types like "Zill" are sweetest, compared to red fruited types ) and possibly some of the especially hardy edible Eugenia sp. 

Jaboticaba might be a stretch.. but worth it in some sort of greenhouse for winter protection. Believe there are a few members on the Tropical Fruit Forum in colder parts of Texas growing them in such a manner.

From doing some research, it seems like  Papershell Pinyon, Pinus remota would be the closest native sp. to your area.. though other pinyon species might be grown there also.

Edited by Silas_Sancona
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I have a beautiful Brahea edulis and I really like its fruits when they are black, they taste like raisins.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks everybody for all the suggestions! There were several that I never heard before, and several I didn't know were edible. I compiled a long list and some quick notes on each plant. Some are shrubs and and some are large trees. I didn't add brahea edulis or jaboticaba, from what I read I don't think they are hardy here. 

 

Palms:

 

Pindo Palm, Jelly Palm- Butia Capitata. USDA hardiness zones: 8B through 11

 

Date Palm- Phoenix Dactylifera. Hardy to zone 8b. Fruit production questionable in 8b.

 

Citrus:

 

Calamondin- Citrus mitis, is an acid citrus fruit originating in China, which was introduced to the U.S. as an "acid orange" about 1900.   This plant is grown more for its looks than for its fruit edibility and performs well as a patio plant or when trimmed as a hedge. It is hardy to 20 degrees F.  and is hardier to cold than any other true citrus specie---only the trifoliate orange and the kumquat are more tolerant to low temperatures.    The edible fruit is small and orange, about one inch in diameter, and resembles a small tangerine.

 

Pomelo- Citrus maxima or Citrus grandis. is the largest citrus fruit from the Rutaceae family. It is a natural (non-hybrid) citrus fruit, similar in appearance to a large grapefruit,

 

Satsuma- Citrus Unshiu. seedless and easy-peeling citrus species, also known as unshu mikan, It is of Chinese origin, named after Unsyu (Wenzhou), China, but introduced to the West via Japan.

 

Improved Meyer Lemon- (Citrus × meyeri), the Meyer lemon, is a hybrid citrus fruit native to China. It is a cross between a citron and a mandarin/pomelo hybrid distinct from the common or bitter oranges. USDA Hardiness Zones 8-11.

 

Texas Natives?:

 

Pawpaw- (Asimina triloba). A small tree seldom over 30 feet high with a trunk 8" or 10" in diameter, with straight, slender branches that give the tree an open, oval crown of large, light green leaves.

 

Texas persimmon- (Diospyros texana), is found in northern Mexico and Central and West Texas; it is especially abundant in the Edwards Plateau area.

The tree has small, purple fruit and is known for its peeling bark, which reveals shades of white, gray, and even pink on the trunk. It is not graft compatible with American or Oriental persimmons

 

American persimmon, Diospyros virginiana, grows wild in the South and reaches as far west as the Colorado River in Texas

 

Blanco crabapple- Malus ioensis (Alph. Wood) Britton var. texana Rehder

Deciduous 12-36 ft.

 

Mexican plum- Prunus mexicana S. Watson

single-trunked, non-suckering tree, 15-35 ft. tall, with fragrant, showy, white flowers displayed before the leaves appear. Mature trunks become satiny, blue-gray with darker, horizontal striations. Leaves up to 5 inches long and 2 inches wide, ovate to narrower with serrate margins; minute glands on the petiole near the base of the blade. Plums turn from yellow to mauve to purple as they ripen from July through September.

 

Mayhaws (Crataegus aestivalis, C. rufula, or C. opaca) are very common south of the 1,000 hour chill line. They grow under hardwood timber in the wet floodplain soils along creeks and rivers. These small trees are of the Hawthorne family. The fruit is small and apple-like and ripens during the late April and early May in East Texas. ‘Super Spur’ and ‘Super Berry’ seem to have the best yield and tree form. These varieties bloom early so they are best grown in central East Texas and Southeast Texas. The ‘Super Spur’ has chilling problems during mild winters in the Beaumont area. ‘Big Red,’ ‘Winnie Yellow,’ ‘Highway Red,’ ‘Highway Yellow,’ ‘T.O. Warren Superberry,’ Angelina, Harrison, Big Mama, and the #1 Big varieties usually bloom later and are better adapted to Northeast Texas. A potential grower in Northeast Texas should still plant ‘Super Spur’ and ‘Super Berry’ mayhaws due to the potential of these two selections when late freezes do not damage the crop.

Mayhaws are found in swampy areas and are tolerant of wet soils, but grow best in moist, well-drained soils. Soil should have a pH 6.0 to 6.5 prior to planting.

 

Elderberries (Sambucus) This many-stemmed suckering shrub forms large, dense colonies, or may be a 30 foot tree under the right conditions.

 

Anacua- (Ehretia anacua). Evergreen. Medium to large tree

 

Agarita- Mahonia trifoliolata (Berberis trifoliolata, Mahonia trifoliata) Evergreen. Medium Shrub. hardy to 15 degrees F

 

Brazil- Condalia hookeri. Legume family. Brasil is a native, evergreen shrub or small tree in the Buckthorn(Rhamnaceae) family. It is commonly multiple-trunked and reaches heights between 6 and 15 feet with an irregularly shaped crown. The small leaves are a shiny, light lime-green and alternate along a branch that terminates with sharp spines. Brasil has flowers that are small and greenish with fruit that ripens in the summer to a purple or black color.

Brasil's forage value for wildlife is high. The fruit is consumed by a wide array of mammals and is used as nest sites for birds as well as cover for both mammals and birds. Its browse value for cattle is low.

 

Saffron Plum- Sideroxylon celestrinum  12-36ft tree. Coma. (Good for Wine, Jelly supposedly ..like Agarita )

 

Papershell Pinyon- Pinus remota.

Height: to 70 ft. Width: to 50 ft. evergreen. Heat Tolerance: high. Water Requirements: low. Soil Requirements: alkaline USDA Hardiness Zone: 5

 

Texas Mulberry- Morus microphylla. Shrub or small tree.

 

Pecan- (Carya illinoinensis). large deciduous tree, growing to (66–131 ft) in height

 

Black Walnut- Juglans nigra. A large tree to 100 feet tall

 

Chiltepin- Capsicum annuum var. glabriusculum. Perennial Shrub.

 

Southern Dewberry. (Rubus trivialis Michx). Ten species of Rubus are listed for Texas. Shrub

 

Non-Native Fruit /Nut Trees:

 

Loquat- Eriobotrya japonica. evergreen tree that can grow to 25 feet

 

Peach (Prunus persica). grows up to 7 m (23 ft) tall and wide. However, when pruned properly, trees are usually 3–4 m (10–13 ft) tall and wide. The peach varieties (Prunus persica) have different ripening schedules categorized as very early, early, mid-season, late and very late. For very early and early ripening peaches, select Bicentennial, Sentinel, Ranger and Harvester. Good mid-season producers are Redglobe, Milam, Majestic, Denman, Loring and Belle of Georgia. Plant Dixiland, Redskin and Jefferson for late bloomers and Frank, Fayette and Ouachita Gold for peaches that ripen very late in the growing season. Request the Lovell rootstock for alkaline clay soils and Nemaguard for acid sandy soils. Low-chill peach like "Tropic Snow"

 

Pear- Pyrus sp. Three species account for the vast majority of edible fruit production, the European pear Pyrus communis subsp. communis cultivated mainly in Europe and North America, the Chinese white pear (bai li) Pyrus ×bretschneideri, and the Nashi pear Pyrus pyrifolia (also known as Asian pear or apple pear), both grown mainly in eastern Asia. There are thousands of cultivars of these three species. A species grown in western China, P. sinkiangensis, and P. pashia, grown in southern China and south Asia, are also produced to a lesser degree. The pear (Pyrus sp.) species such as Orient, Moonglow, Kieffer, LeConte, Ayres, Garber, Maxine and Warren are well adapted to the Central Texas climate. Request the Calleryana and Old Home rootstocks for optimum results. You should pick these varieties while still green and set them aside for three days to ripen and soften. Highly touted are the Monterrey variety with the shape of an apple and a tangy pear flavor, and the Orient, which produces large pears with a strong aroma and distinct flavor.

The Asian pear varieties (Pyrus pyrifolia) recommended for this area are Hosui, 20th Century and Ya Li. Unlike other pear varieties, you can leave Asian pears on the tree until they ripen.

 

Plum- Prunus sp. medium-sized, usually pruned to 5–6 metres height. The tree is of medium hardiness. Without pruning, the trees can reach 12 metres in height and spread across 10 metres.  (Prunus salicina), Methley and Santa Rosa seem to work best. Methley have red skin and flesh, are good quality and easily grown. Although the Santa Rosa variety has a short season, it has a solid reputation. Other varieties that work well in Central Texas are Morris, Ozark Premier and Bruce. Request Lovell rootstock for alkaline clay soils or Nemaguard for acid sandy soils. The Bruce variety requires cross-pollination.

 

Pomegranate- (Punica granatum) (16 to 33 ft) high. They can be tolerant of moderate frost, down to about (10 °F)

 

Apple- (Malus pumila) Red Delicious, Golden Delicious, Gala, Holland, Jerseymac, Mollie's Delicious, Fuji and Granny Smith are some apple varieties (Malus pumila) that perform well.

 

Fig- Ficus carica

 

Oriental persimmon, Diospyrus kaki, was introduced into the United States in the mid-1800s from its native China and Japan. astringent type Asian persimmons like "Hachiya", one of the best fruits for zone 8 imo

 

Jujube- Ziziphus jujuba. small deciduous tree or shrub reaching a height of (16–39 ft), usually with thorny branches

 

Olive- (Olea europaea) "European olive", evergreen tree or shrub. (26–49 ft) in height. is a species of small tree in the family Oleaceae, found in the Mediterranean Basin from Portugal to the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula, and southern Asia as far east as China, as well as the Canary Islands and Réunion.

 

Pakistan mulberry- it is very tolerant of heat, humidity, sun, droughts and poor soil. Disease-resistant. Matures to be 40-50' tall. Ripens April through mid-summer. Self-pollinating. (Morus alba x M. rubra)

 

Casimiroa pringlei "Pringle's Zapote”. shrubby species to about 6 to 8 feet with a fruit much smaller than C edulis. hardy down to 4 F

 

Pineapple Guava (Feijoa sellowiana) Fruiting starts 3-5 years after planting. Although somewhat self-fertile, we recommend planting two for best pollination. Feijoa is remarkably pest-and disease-resistant. Also known as Acca sellowiana. Zone 8.9.10. full sun. grows to 6ft.

 

Casimiroa- Casimiroa pringlei. It requires a male & female plant to get fruit. 12-15ft. zone 8, sun to partial shade.

 

Goji berry- Lycium barbarum. growing 1–3 m high. The tree has weak arching branches, and the side branches are often reduced to short leafless spines.

 

Chokeberry- Aronia sp. Aronia is considered cold hardy and heat tolerant in USDA Zones 3 to 8. Aronia plants grow well both in orchard-type rows or set as landscape elements, including several varieties in 3 to 12 foot heights.

 

Chestnut- The Chinese chestnut is the only chestnut that is reasonably adapted to portions of Texas. This tree is tolerant to the chestnut blight that has killed most native American chestnuts throughout the eastern and central United States.

 

Chinese chestnuts grow best in the acid soils of East Texas and are poorly adapted to the extremely alkaline soils of portions of South, Central and West Texas.

 

Hazelnuts- Filberts. The filbert (hazelnut) tree will grow in Texas, but nut production is generally poor. The tree does well on a wide variety of soils, ranging from acidic to highly calcareous.

 

Prickly Pear- Opuntia matudae. Opuntia ficus-indica. Nopales and Tunas.

 

Yucca- Several species have edible flowers. 

 

Edited by Brian F. Austin
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Looks good. I have grown just about every variety of chestnut, they like Acidic soil, much like a blueberry. I have a hard time thinking any apples will do well for you with your lack of cooling degree days.  It would be good to experiment though. They will also need full sun to produce apples. Google an apple orchard for those of you that have never gone to a U-Pick apple orchard. Persimmons will do well, and they are many grafted varieties. There is also the texas walnut (Juglans microcarpa) , another nice walnut native to CA is the hinds walnut. Some of the most beautiful wood you have ever seen.  You might want to look into the some of the true ash trees (Soribus not Fraxinus). Some of the Soribus will balk at your heat but if I recall there are some that are more heat tolerant. Jams can be made from the fruit. Hazelnuts can be finicky. The Turkish Hazelnut is a full blown tree if that is what you are looking for. I tried to grow it but it never did much more me up north ... (too cold perhaps) 

 

 

 

 

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Most true pomelos are not going to be hardy for you. Maybe something like 'Bloomsweet' grapefruit. 

If were including shrubby things, litchi tomato (Solanum sisymbriifolium) is supposed to be perennial in 8B/9A. I haven't tried the fruit on mine, but the plant doesn't wilt in 90s afternoon sun, so basically bulletproof.  Resistant to nematodes and the spines keep the critters away. 

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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  • 2 weeks later...

That's good to know. I'll take off the pomelos and probably the apples. And I'll look into the ashes and the Litchi Tomato. 

 

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I totally forgot - Jubaea chilensis.  The seeds are like mini coconuts and you can make wine as well.  Might have to wait 50 years to harvest but it could be on the list.

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  • 1 month later...

I'll definitely add jubaea chilensis to the list even though I've heard they struggle in wet winters. I've seen the large one at the dallas aquarium and it's trunk and size is amazing.

 

My native plant friends will not like this choice but I am adding Moso bamboo (Phyllostachys edulis) to the list. The young shoots are edible and the timber has countless uses. 

 

Edited by Brian F. Austin
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