Pinnate Palm Id

[tim_brissy_13]

Ponapea hosinoi or Solfia samoensis. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or Veitchia arecina

[Frond-friend42]

Vei

4 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

I am going to try yet again to get an ID on this species.

It is completely solitary, fairly fast growing, and quite cold-sensitive (I wouldn’t plant it in the ground in 10a), with narrow leaflets that are not flared like the Ptycosperma I have seen.  I also do not know if I have seen a Ptchosperma species that has such narrow leaflets.

I feel the trunk looks like a Veitchia, granted a particularly skinny Veitchia and there are species of Veitchia that fit this description.  Further, the crownshaft is not smooth but “fuzzy” like Veitchia.

Here is an updated photo of the smaller of the two palms.

Veitchia subdisticha?

[Frond-friend42]

The smallest picture of veitchia pachyclada on palmpedia also made it look like a strong possibility. 

[palmsOrl]

I think you may just be correct Frond-friend42!

Firstly, looking at photos of Veitchia subdisticha on Palmpedia and from a few other sources, it is clear that this species is highly polymorphic.  Therefore, some pictured specimens look like a match and some others look quite different (mainly in the leaflets and in the shape and orientation of the individual fronds).

Based on the below photos, courtesy of Palmpedia, I will conclude that my palm is a particularly elegant variant of the highly variable species, Veitchia subdisticha.

Thank you all for chiming in with your thoughts.  I am quite happy with the ID as I love any and all Veitchia and especially the less common ones.

-Michael

[palmsOrl]

24 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

The smallest picture of veitchia pachyclada on palmpedia also made it look like a strong possibility. 

Agreed.  Veitchia (subdisticha) is definitely the right genera, but the photos of said species are not 100% convincing (but as close as any I had seen until I saw Veitchia pachyclada).  I think you nailed it and I am going to label both of my palms Veitchia pachyclada.  A rare and lovely Veitchia species, I am a happy camper.

If anybody wants one, trunking specimens can be had for cheap from Green’s Nursery near Apopka, FL.  The price is typically $10 for a 6-7 foot palm.

-Michael

[palmsOrl]

1 hour ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Ponapea hosinoi or Solfia samoensis. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or Veitchia arecina

Tim,

I’m sorry, I missed this post and will look into the two species you mentioned after my midnight nap.  Thank you for your input!

-Michael

[tim_brissy_13]

7 minutes ago, palmsOrl said:

Tim,

I’m sorry, I missed this post and will look into the two species you mentioned after my midnight nap.  Thank you for your input!

-Michael

Sorry Michael, my post was tongue in cheek, it can be difficult to convey tone through text. Those first couple I mentioned are extremely rare, and while loosely related to Veitchia and having some similarities, would be extremely hard to find. 
 

I’m still very confident the correct ID is Veitchia arecina. The crownshaft, lower petiole dark colour and even the colour on the most recent growth rings look typical to me. 

[palmsOrl]

2 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Sorry Michael, my post was tongue in cheek, it can be difficult to convey tone through text. Those first couple I mentioned are extremely rare, and while loosely related to Veitchia and having some similarities, would be extremely hard to find. 
 

I’m still very confident the correct ID is Veitchia arecina. The crownshaft, lower petiole dark colour and even the colour on the most recent growth rings look typical to me. 

No worries Tim, I am a bit dense when it comes to picking up on more subtle non-verbal communication anyways.  Lacking this ability through instinct, I have gradually acquired a rote understanding of less direct communication, though my understanding is still far from perfect.

As for the palm in question, it actually COULD be Solfia samoensis, however, this palm is so rare that it would be like winning a small lottery to find a sizable specimen at a regular nursery.  Well, not really, but you know what I am saying.  

My two palms look decidedly similar to Ponapea hosinoi as well.  Looking at photos of the leaflets of Ponapea hosinoi leads me to conclude that it is not the same species as my palms.

Veitchia arecina   As you can see, you are not the first person to suggest this as the ID for my palms.  I guarantee everyone though, if you saw my palms in person, particularly the larger one, you would almost certainly agree that the features are FAR too petite to be Veitchia arecina.  Bear in mind that I have grown several from this same source over the past 11 years and have seen them in various sizes at the grower’s greenhouse too, so I can tell you that these characteristics are consistent.  In addition, this palm is, as mentioned, very cold sensitive, significantly more so than say, Adonidia and Malayan dwarf Cocos.  More like Areca catechu or Pritchardia pacifica, I would say upper end of zone 10b.

 

In conclusion, I am going to tentatively identify my palms as Veitchia pachyclada or Solphia samoensis.  There is only a very remote possibility that they are the latter species, but it is worth writing on the back of the label just in-case.

Thank you to everybody for your input and opinions.

-Michael

[palmsOrl]

Veitchia pachyclada, Solfia samoensis/Balaka insularis, Hydriastele micropadix or Ptycosperma salamonense.  Narrowing it down to those four options is good enough for me.

[palmsOrl]

This photo of is the most spot on match I have found.  Looking closely at the pictured palm, my palms have to be this species.  Case closed.  Now the only question is, what is the pictured palm?!  It is not Balaka longirostris.

-the little bulge at the base

- the trunk ring spacing 

-the trunk and trunk ring color

-the trunk diameter

-the leaves versus my comparably sized specimen

- the leafets

-the shade of green

-the crownshaft color

[akamu]

First two pictures are ptychosperma salmoense the next pictures are from  ptychosperma cuneatum  these are growing in my garden. Not sure if this help but the ptychosperma cuneatum does look similar to yours . Hard to compare without being there in person. Cheers 

[palmsOrl]

Thank you Akamu,

Regarding Ptychosperma cuneatum, the trunk and crownshaft, as well as the overall look of the palm, looks the same, but the configuration of the leaflets of P. cuneatum is somewhat unique and not a match.

When I was reviewing photos of different palms this morning, I was noticing that Ptychosperma salamonense, as a species, is somewhat polymorphic and some (a significant minority) of the photos I see look like a match to my palm, including yours and one I posted earlier in this thread.

This, combined with the fact that P. salamonense is, by far the most common species of the four I had narrowed it down to and I think we have a conclusive ID.  Thank you again Akamu for your insights.

Who is growing Ptychosperma salamonense and what are your observations?  What have you noticed about its cold-sensitivity?  In my experience it is wayyyy more cold sensitive than P. elegans and P. macarthurii, but then again, Ptychosperma is a large and variable genus.

[palmsOrl]

Here's an update on this palm.  It is either Ptychosperma salomonense or Veitchia subdistichia.  Based on the color of the trunk and the crownshaft, I am leaning toward Veitchia subdistichia.  A real tropical beauty.

The second photo is from Palmpedia to provide a comparison.  It is Veitchia subdistichia.