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Ryagra

Nevada - surprise filifera

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Ryagra

Surprise filiferas in a canyon made an amazing sunset on our hike. Wanted to share. 

 

(Growing in a dry wash in the Mojave Desert.)3F29BD03-D750-48EE-B043-E98C27F0D3EB_zps

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kinzyjr

@Ryagra Very nice find.  I have a pair of filifera here in pots.  I hope they survive long enough to look like those you found in the desert.

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Ryagra

@kinzyjr thank you! They thrive here, it just surprised me as it was nowhere near water. I’m excited for you. They’re growth rate is pretty impressive! 

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PalmTreeDude

Where in Nevada are these? I heard that people debate whether or not they are native to Nevada, and this image definitely supports them being native there. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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Ryagra

@PalmTreeDude

These were in a canyon hiking down (west) off of Mormon Mesa toward Moapa Valley / Overton. North of Lake Mead. I may be able to find a map pin if you need more specificity. 

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kinzyjr

I believe mine were from a Moapa Valley, NV seed source.

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Xerarch
6 hours ago, Ryagra said:

@PalmTreeDude

These were in a canyon hiking down (west) off of Mormon Mesa toward Moapa Valley / Overton. North of Lake Mead. I may be able to find a map pin if you need more specificity. 

Moapa is where they are supposed to be native if indeed they are. 

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Ryagra
43 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Moapa is where they are supposed to be native if indeed they are. 

That is cool. It’s pretry similar to in climate / terrain to the palm canyons area. It’s a probable theory. 

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NC_Palms

W. filifera is one of my favorite species of palm. Thanks for sharing!

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Ryagra
26 minutes ago, NC_Palms said:

W. filifera is one of my favorite species of palm. Thanks for sharing!

Anytime! I enjoy them as well. They have an impressive growth rate / size! 

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Josue Diaz

Very cool, thanks for sharing. It makes me wonder how far Washingtonia's range spread northward historically. There is a grove of filifera at the mouth of the Kern River Canyon east of Bakersfield. I've always wondered how they got there, given that filifera's range is believed to be limited to the extreme southern portion of California. This grove near Bakersfield has 60 or more very old filifera and plenty of juvenile plants. Washingtonia filifera isn't exactly what you think of when you hear of Sierra Nevada vegetation. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4414968,-118.7932905,3a,53.8y,300.28h,89.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scNqvmQLDc7KTa_jHH2CxWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Capture.thumb.PNG.b9f69ba69bf269f6464a9b9f6d2693cd.PNG

Edited by Josue Diaz
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Ryagra
2 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

Very cool, thanks for sharing. It makes me wonder how far Washingtonia's range spread northward historically. There is a grove of filifera at the mouth of the Kern River Canyon east of Bakersfield. I've always wondered how they got there, given that filifera's range is believed to be limited to the extreme southern portion of California. This grove near Bakersfield has 60 or more very old filifera and plenty of juvenile plants. Washingtonia filifera isn't exactly what you think of when you hear of Sierra Nevada vegetation. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4414968,-118.7932905,3a,53.8y,300.28h,89.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scNqvmQLDc7KTa_jHH2CxWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Capture.thumb.PNG.b9f69ba69bf269f6464a9b9f6d2693cd.PNG

Isn’t it a wonder? Isolated groups make me happy. Thanks for sharing ! 

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PalmTreeDude

I bet birds are good at spreading these, I would assume they would nest near water sources. 

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Ryagra
8 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I bet birds are good at spreading these, I would assume they would nest near water sources. 

I think so too. That’s a lot of why they grow out of sidewalks around telephone poles and the like. 

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Chris Chance

I have been to an area out that way when I lived in Vegas. There was a spring and it was surrounded by palms in the middle of nowhere north of Lake Mead. I always figured they must be native to that area. It was over ten years ago since I went there but I remember it was an amazing place and the water was so warm and clear. 

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Ryagra
59 minutes ago, Chris Chance said:

I have been to an area out that way when I lived in Vegas. There was a spring and it was surrounded by palms in the middle of nowhere north of Lake Mead. I always figured they must be native to that area. It was over ten years ago since I went there but I remember it was an amazing place and the water was so warm and clear. 

True serenity at its finest. Love finding those areas! Springs in the desert make my heart happy! 

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bubba

Great find! Those Washingtonia f. in their native habitat in Ca., Az.and Nv. are amazing. Makes me wonder if there could  be some in hidden canyons in Utah!

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Ryagra
3 hours ago, bubba said:

Great find! Those Washingtonia f. in their native habitat in Ca., Az.and Nv. are amazing. Makes me wonder if there could  be some in hidden canyons in Utah!

That’s be awesome! 

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Silas_Sancona
7 hours ago, Ryagra said:

That’s be awesome! 

Actually... according to SEINet data, there was a collection of filifera made from a seep near the Virgin River, north of St George back in 1987.  Coordinates via the SEINet voucher are as follows:  37. 3375 -113.522  Approx 1 mile east of Beaver Dam, or.. looking over Google earth, N. W. of both Burger and Signal Peaks in the Red Cliffs Nat. Conservation Area. No clue if the specimen they'd collected off is still there but interesting to say the least.. If it (  ..and perhaps others ) are still growing there, and DNA analysis were to confirm it, this might be the northern-most locality of a naturally -growing specimen / population that has been documented, thus far. 



 

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Ryagra
1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Actually... according to SEINet data, there was a collection of filifera made from a seep near the Virgin River, north of St George back in 1987.  Coordinates via the SEINet voucher are as follows:  37. 3375 -113.522  Approx 1 mile east of Beaver Dam, or.. looking over Google earth, N. W. of both Burger and Signal Peaks in the Red Cliffs Nat. Conservation Area. No clue if the specimen they'd collected off is still there but interesting to say the least.. If it (  ..and perhaps others ) are still growing there, and DNA analysis were to confirm it, this might be the northern-most locality of a naturally -growing specimen / population that has been documented, thus far. 



 

Interesting, indeed! Can you direct me where I can read more about it? I’ll have to go check it out. Wild palms fascinate me. 

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Silas_Sancona
1 minute ago, Ryagra said:

Interesting, indeed! Can you direct me where I can read more about it? I’ll have to go check it out. Wild palms fascinate me. 

All i did was type in "Washingtonia filifera SEINet"   Then when you enter their portal, you'll see a map on the lower right hand side of the page. Click on it and you should see all the points where sampled /photographed / vouchered specimens have been documented..  The only thing they had picture-wise for that particular entry was samples of some leaves / etc. that had been collected and placed in a herbarium.  Would be cool if someone was able to re-locate this specimen.. ( perhaps any others not documented that far north ) with both photos and more collection samples..

Overall, SEINet is a pretty accurate / reliable resource w/ some of the info in their database going back several decades.. Many well known Naturalists / Botanists, etc have made valuable contributions there..

I also surf  Inaturalist's database when looking up stuff..  Many, more recent entries / observations there though it seems some of the observations posted aren't always as closely evaluated for accuracy at times. Have noticed, for example, some entries for Washingtonia filifera as being W. robustra, ( Observation posted from Santa Barbra County ) or a Brahea sp. ( another observation made from Sinaloa, Mexico ) in a couple cases..     Still, a valuable resource.

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Ryagra
13 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

All i did was type in "Washingtonia filifera SEINet"   Then when you enter their portal, you'll see a map on the lower right hand side of the page. Click on it and you should see all the points where sampled /photographed / vouchered specimens have been documented..  The only thing they had picture-wise for that particular entry was samples of some leaves / etc. that had been collected and placed in a herbarium.  Would be cool if someone was able to re-locate this specimen.. ( perhaps any others not documented that far north ) with both photos and more collection samples..

Thank you! I stayed up way too late fiddling around with this. The site is fascinating! Their coordinates for the Utah palm put that at a pretty high elevation. Such a specimen could be extremely valuable in a DNA pool for northern growers. 

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Silas_Sancona
3 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

Thank you! I stayed up way too late fiddling around with this. The site is fascinating! Their coordinates for the Utah palm put that at a pretty high elevation. Such a specimen could be extremely valuable in a DNA pool for northern growers. 

:greenthumb:   Lol, i hear ya.. Been many nights where i sat in bed looking up stuff on SEINet or Intauralist until i fell asleep. While, Inaturalist is more citizen-oriented,  thus some of the miss -identification / inclusion of cultivated specimen observations ( mainly w/ plants ) you'll find posted when researching there, plenty of factual info to gain. Plus, it helps foster interest in X  area of Science.  The site has also turned up several surprise discoveries.. One involving an apparent range expansion of a Fiddler Crab sp. along the coast of S. Cal. that many assumed couldn't survive / hadn't been observed much further north of Ensanada, in Baja.

As far as filifera is concerned, Totally agree that if that specimen, or others that might exist in that area, are still there, i have to believe they'd likely possess some sort of extra cold tolerance..  I'd imagine that area gets snow, at least a few times each winter?? 

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Ryagra
2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

:greenthumb:   Lol, i hear ya.. Been many nights where i sat in bed looking up stuff on SEINet or Intauralist until i fell asleep. While, Inaturalist is more citizen-oriented,  thus some of the miss -identification / inclusion of cultivated specimen observations ( mainly w/ plants ) you'll find posted when researching there, plenty of factual info to gain. Plus, it helps foster interest in X  area of Science.  The site has also turned up several surprise discoveries.. One involving an apparent range expansion of a Fiddler Crab sp. along the coast of S. Cal. that many assumed couldn't survive / hadn't been observed much further north of Ensanada, in Baja.

As far as filifera is concerned, Totally agree that if that specimen, or others that might exist in that area, are still there, i have to believe they'd likely possess some sort of extra cold tolerance..  I'd imagine that area gets snow, at least a few times each winter?? 

It’s a struggle. Sleep or plants? I will be utilizing these resources a lot! I’m definitely a novice plant nerd. Before the smart phone area I spent countless hours collecting books on different plants that peaked my interest, especially things native to the mojave and Great Basin. 

 

Indeed it would. When life allots me some more feeetime during the day, I want to take a trip up there for sure. Yes, it would definitely be safe to assume that location would possessive some super cold hardiness if a specimen is still thriving. 

This is a current photo from this week. The coordinates would put the elevation close to the current snow line. 

This is looking north to Burger from the Virgin River. I’m standing at about 2800’. Although, being a south facing and on a slope, it would be a safe assumption that is isn’t succumbed to the cold air sinks the valley and city get on occasion. When it gets cold fast, the cold air doesn’t drain down the gorge fast enough for the radiant heat to reward the next morning. It happens a couple of times a decade. It could be a safe zone from this at that elevation, however, significantly more snowfall. 

D8FCEA9C-459F-4A1B-907D-1DDDA740E47F.jpeg

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Silas_Sancona
48 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

It’s a struggle. Sleep or plants? I will be utilizing these resources a lot! I’m definitely a novice plant nerd. Before the smart phone area I spent countless hours collecting books on different plants that peaked my interest, especially things native to the mojave and Great Basin. 

:lol: Agree.. Was the same way before phones / internet. Books, and lots of trips to the Library to read books i didn't have, let alone lots of time hiking through pretty much all of the hills surrounding San Jose / Santa Cruz.. ..And that was before moving out of state, the first time.. Interesting to read through some of those books and see what changes have been made to a species name / range / etc.  At the other end of the spectrum, it was sad to see areas where i'd encountered hard to find plants developed at that time. Even contributed information for an Environmental Impact Report to help try and stop development of a Golf Course on a site where several rare / threatened plant / animal species had been documented near where i grew up in San Jose.  It should have been designated open space, or sold to the County Parks dept.  Is what it is though sometimes..

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Ryagra

Another isolated bunch of filifera soaking up some ground water. Could not contact the property owner, but got as close as I could without trespassing. 

17350108-561E-4287-9BA2-DD62ABF81B7C.jpeg

E188CF8B-ED7F-4CA3-8EDD-55DDC3478BA9.jpeg

C176F9E5-03A2-4A81-993D-6575573CCF09.jpeg

2A008A6D-5E40-4AEE-B619-DFEB675EC534.jpeg

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