Jump to content
Tracy

Which Phoenix species or hybrid?

Recommended Posts

Tracy

I was a bit surprised by the girth of the trunks in this group of Phoenix which appeared to be a clumping species.  Unfortunately due to foliage and the lens that I had on at the time, I could only get the trunks as opposed to the entire palms when I was close.  YOu can see in the 2nd & 3rd photos the width of the trunk compared to the Washingtonia robusta adjacent to them.  Once up above I got the first photo of the crowns which is smack dab middle of the photo, with all the robusta's adjacent again.  The palms are in the San Diego Safari Park.  Everything was looking very green including the hills across the San Pasqual Valley after this winter's abundance of rainfall.  My first guess was a Phoenix reclinata hybrid with one of the thicker trunked Phoenix, but I don't claim to be that familiar with all the Phoenix species.  That said, I am also aware of the abundance of Phoenix crosses.  I've seen so many palms that appear to be Phoenix reclinata with varying length fronds, which are not necessarily linked to the light exposure, so I have little doubt that they are willing partners in hybridization.  What think you?

Just a side note, that the signage on plants is sorely lacking at the Safari Park ,or as we old timers knew it the "Wild Animal Park", when compared to its big sister facility, the San Diego Zoo.

20190316-104A2744.jpg

20190316-104A2743.jpg

20190316-104A2742.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kinzyjr

If I had to take a guess, I would say a reclinata or a hybrid of reclinata with canariensis.  Effectively, my guess = your guess :D

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UK_Palms
22 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

If I had to take a guess, I would say a reclinata or a hybrid of reclinata with canariensis.  Effectively, my guess = your guess :D

I agree. It looks like it is pure Reclinata to me though, given it is clumping/clustering. Canariensis hybrids don't usually clump, or at least I don't think they do.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Merlyn

I'd guess Canary/Reclinata mix of some sort.  Pure Reclinata trunks tend to be around 6-10" in diameter or so, at least on the ones I've seen.  Those trunks look more like 15-20"!  I forgot who posted these (maybe Eric?) but here are a couple of suspected Canary/Reclinata hybrids.

Phoenix canary x reclinata v3.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata v4.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata trunks a.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata v2a.jpg

Phoenix canary x reclinata a.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tracy
1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I'd guess Canary/Reclinata mix of some sort.  Pure Reclinata trunks tend to be around 6-10" in diameter or so, at least on the ones I've seen.  Those trunks look more like 15-20"!  I forgot who posted these (maybe Eric?) but here are a couple of suspected Canary/Reclinata hybrids.

Thank you for sharing those pictures of other probable CIDP x P. reclinata hybrids!  The girth on the ones you have shared does more closely match the clump I posted from the SD Safari Park.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim in Los Altos

That looks a whole lot like my P. reclinata x roebelenii with those skinny trunks. image.thumb.jpeg.85b441eb045bb465d325e16a2c4d7345.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

Maybe picture deceives, but at first glance I do not see any girth. In foreground a stem of what I believe to be genuine reclinata and in background a stem of what I believe to be a reclinata x canariensis cross. Latter is being kept through back trim single-stemmed.

20190322_091719.thumb.jpg.913bc806cb6e193b0e2035befe9f1420.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

And the comparison from a reverse perspective.

20190322_092432.thumb.jpg.a2331359b5a51989f87d89c733355837.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

And finally a comparison of the thought to be reclinata x canariensis hybrid with a genuine canariensis

20190322_094219.thumb.jpg.f63d557ba10512ec634c50e405347ed1.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tracy
5 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Maybe picture deceives, but at first glance I do not see any girth. In foreground a stem of what I believe to be genuine reclinata and in background a stem of what I believe to be a reclinata x canariensis cross. Latter is being kept through back trim single-stemmed.

20190322_091719.thumb.jpg.913bc806cb6e193b0e2035befe9f1420.jpg

The Washingtonia robusta behind and to the left of the signpost is roughly the same distance as the Phoenix trunk to the far right in the photo below.  The P reclinata's I'm familiar with have trunks narrower than the base of a Washingtonia, while the Phoenix in the photo have substantially thicker trunks.  The Safari Park has Phoenix reclinata planted extensively throughout their "Africa" species area which is another reason that this "stood out" as unusual in it's girth. 

20190316-104A2743.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palm Tree Jim

I have 2 Phoenix reclinatas in my garden, and both different. The leaf structure is certainly different but the trunks are close.  I was told that the specimens in my garden are hybrids but I'm not sure.

Later, I can post pictures of both.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palm Tree Jim

Some pictures as promised.

 

993BDCEE-4266-4C47-9CB2-D1B9B0A76264.jpeg

0BADE5D0-C10C-4419-88E2-F96B46292A7E.jpeg

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palm Tree Jim

And the other.

 

51A8D31B-14CD-4BCF-A7A7-CC76A3E1BF00.jpeg

706B2BBC-A2B2-4C75-9FF2-237AE2166BA0.jpeg

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tracy

I have a Phoenix reclinata growing in partial shade, so I think it's leaves are a bit stretched compared to if I had grown it in full sun.  I planted it about 23 years ago from a 1 gallon.  The leaf form is visible in the first photo from 10 years ago, while the second photo is just of the trunks looking down on them from above.  Hard to get perspective, but with the trunk on the tallest above the wall, it has nowhere near the girth of my post from the Safari Park.

20090613-IMG_3363 Phoenix reclinata.jpg

20181123-104A1639-2.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tracy
On 3/22/2019 at 12:23 AM, Phoenikakias said:

Maybe picture deceives, but at first glance I do not see any girth. In foreground a stem of what I believe to be genuine reclinata and in background a stem of what I believe to be a reclinata x canariensis cross.

My expectations for what Phoenix reclinata looks like are set by the numerous plantings in San Diego's Balboa Park and other environs (first 2 photos of what I believe are P reclinata).  Another of what appears to be the reclinata x canariansis crosses, shows the difference in girth again.  All photos from Balboa Park.

20190330-104A2845.jpg

20190330-104A2846.jpg

20190330-104A2872.jpg

20190330-104A2871.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

I can cut off a fresh frond of my reclinata from near the base by using a crosscut secateur, while to the very same purpose on my reclinata hybrid I have to use s saw. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Merlyn
On 3/22/2019 at 9:33 PM, Tracy said:

I have a Phoenix reclinata growing in partial shade, so I think it's leaves are a bit stretched compared to if I had grown it in full sun.  I planted it about 23 years ago from a 1 gallon.  The leaf form is visible in the first photo from 10 years ago, while the second photo is just of the trunks looking down on them from above.  Hard to get perspective, but with the trunk on the tallest above the wall, it has nowhere near the girth of my post from the Safari Park.

20181123-104A1639-2.jpg

The trunks in Reclinata around here look pretty much identical to the ones in the above photo.  Most appear to be about 8" diameter.  The trunks from your later picture are enormous, there's no way they are a plain Reclinata.  A mix with Canariensis would be my bet too, though the petiole/rachis are relatively straight and not arched like Reclinata x Canariensis.  Maybe the mix is Reclinata x Dactylifera?  AFAIK the Dacty is the only Phoenix with very straight rachis.  Thanks for the great pics!!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • UK_Palms
      By UK_Palms
      London's resident palm video guy, RH Grows, recently uploaded a video of a strange palm at Lincoln Inn Fields in central London.
      I'm not sure whether this is a regular CIDP, or some kind of CIDP hybrid? At first glance, it kind of looks like a Butia, but it's clearly a Phoenix of some sort. It almost looks like a Butia x CIDP hybrid, which is obviously impossible. The fronds and crown kind of have that Butia look, but it's clearly a Phoenix of some sort. Almost certainly CIDP, or hybridised with something like Dacty, Sylvestris, Rupicola etc.
      One thing to mention is that the palm is also grown in deep shade, which I believe could effect the frond size/length, but that would not explain the strange crown and slim trunk. Something just seems very different about it. For all I know it could just be a regular CIDP though. I don't know what other people think it is...?
       
       
    • PalmatierMeg
      By PalmatierMeg
      I germinated these seedlings several years ago. They are still tiny but hanging in there. I still have dozens of them. I believe they are D. madagascariensis v mahajanga but I need confirmation from a Dypsis afficionado. I got the seeds from @NatureGirl back in 2018 or so. They are maddeningly slow growing as some Dypsis are but are surprisingly resilient. They stay outdoors in the shade year round and get no protection from the elements. I have dozens of them I am looking to sell as I don't have time and energy to keep herding them around.
      Are these D. mad v mahajanga?

    • UK_Palms
      By UK_Palms
      Here is a catalog of all the bigger CIDP's around London and their locations, so that they can be monitored moving forward. It also helps for people to know where they can find them exactly, should they be in the area and decide to visit some. Many of these CIDP's are not well known, so I will be photo-documenting and logging quite a lot of fairly large specimens in the city and suburbs.
      Starting with the one at Lambeth Bridge...

       
      River Gardens, Fulham

       
      Hollands Park

       
      Kensington





      These CIDP's on the intersection are fruiting profusely and producing viable seed...

      Another one further down the street...

       
      There's two big CIDP's outside Hackney town hall. They've been there about 20 years. 


       
      Egerton Place

      It's in need of a trim, which will make the trunk look even bigger...


       
      Mount Street gardens, Mayfair

       
      Notting Hill

       
      Richmond

       
      White City, west London

       
      Clapham

       
      Next to a church in Ealing, West London.

       
      Next to Wimbledon fire station. 

       
      People's back gardens in Bermondsey, south west London

       
      Wapping, East London

       
      Eaton Square...



       
      Islington

       
      North Kensington...

       
      Clapham again...

       
      Camberwell...


       
      Southwark...

       
      East Dulwich

       
      Croydon

       
      Apartments in Fulham


       
      St. Annes in Notting Hill


       
      Front gardens kitted out...

       
      Earlsfield

       
      Another in Notting Hill...


       
      A back yard in the London suburb of Leyton...

       
      Decent sized specimen in Walworth...

       
      That will do for now. I will upload the rest tomorrow as there are tons of other CIDP's in people's gardens/yards. I've barely scratched the surface on the London CIDP's yet...
       
       
    • PalmatierMeg
      By PalmatierMeg
      Can anyone confirm the ID of the seeding Zamia in the photos below? Could it be Z. loddigesii x pumila? Something else?

    • Tracy
      By Tracy
      Thoughts on id? It started to lean then sprouted the new growth point which is primary now.  It had what appeared to be the second small seedling near the base when I bought it, which has been slower than the new growth point.




×
×
  • Create New...