New "Palmy" Outdoor Mall in Daytona Beach

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[donalt]

nice ! where is this shopping center? is it close to water?

[jreich85]

This may be the new one right across the street from the International Speedway. I first saw it last year right after the big January freeze, and was surprised that the foxtails and royals (and i think i remember seeing adonidias too) I saw were beat up but doing okay. I believe it's called One Daytona if it's the same one I'm thinking of. It's at least a mile or two from the beach.

[Fusca]

Very nice.  If those Roystoneas flourish I hope they will be proactive in removing the dying fronds!  I'd hate to be seated at one of those tables in photo #1 in a couple of years when a 50 lb frond bomb comes crashing down!  I doubt that those umbrellas would provide much protection!  

[aztropic]

Enjoy them while you can...

I lived in Daytona a couple years and it does get cold.While they may pull through for a few years,they will always be trying to replace burnt fronds and eventually,it WILL get cold enough to kill them outright.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

2 hours ago, aztropic said:

Enjoy them while you can...

I lived in Daytona a couple years and it does get cold.While they may pull through for a few years,they will always be trying to replace burnt fronds and eventually,it WILL get cold enough to kill them outright.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

aztropic, our pinnate zone 9 palms are being ravaged by lethal bronzing and Fusarium Wilt so the marginal zone 9b palms that don't die of the disease are creeping into the planting palette in zone 9a...hence the Royals and Archontophoenix in Daytona.  I'm sure there will be a winter reckoning....  But to be perfectly fair, considering the low risk from cold during the last few winters, its reasonable to say Royals will live as long or longer than Phoenix sylvesris, canariensis, or dactylifera in the face of the Lethal bronzing scourge.  Queens are dying of lethal bronzing too, as well as fusarium wilt.  Mules don't seem to be highly susceptible to Bronzing, but they are susceptible, just less than P sylvestris, dactylifera, and canariensis.  We are seeing many Livistonas planted these days as they are zone 9 hardy and resistant or only slightly susceptible to Lethal Bronzing.  But its hard to duplicate the look of a large pinnate palm with a Livistona.  Growing palms in Central FL has taken a decidedly depressing turn over the last few years as our native Sabal dies, along with Queens, Canaries, Sylvestris, Dactylifera, and Washingtonia.  As common as those species are, they are still the backbone of our palm scape across the middle of FL.  Their loss changes the entire look of the place.  

[Jimbean]

4 hours ago, aztropic said:

Enjoy them while you can...

I lived in Daytona a couple years and it does get cold.While they may pull through for a few years,they will always be trying to replace burnt fronds and eventually,it WILL get cold enough to kill them outright.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

yup.  All time record low there has been 14F.  

[Jimbean]

1 hour ago, Keith in SoJax said:

aztropic, our pinnate zone 9 palms are being ravaged by lethal bronzing and Fusarium Wilt so the marginal zone 9b palms that don't die of the disease are creeping into the planting palette in zone 9a...hence the Royals and Archontophoenix in Daytona.  I'm sure there will be a winter reckoning....  But to be perfectly fair, considering the low risk from cold during the last few winters, its reasonable to say Royals will live as long or longer than Phoenix sylvesris, canariensis, or dactylifera in the face of the Lethal bronzing scourge.  Queens are dying of lethal bronzing too, as well as fusarium wilt.  Mules don't seem to be highly susceptible to Bronzing, but they are susceptible, just less than P sylvestris, dactylifera, and canariensis.  We are seeing many Livistonas planted these days as they are zone 9 hardy and resistant or only slightly susceptible to Lethal Bronzing.  But its hard to duplicate the look of a large pinnate palm with a Livistona.  Growing palms in Central FL has taken a decidedly depressing turn over the last few years as our native Sabal dies, along with Queens, Canaries, Sylvestris, Dactylifera, and Washingtonia.  As common as those species are, they are still the backbone of our palm scape across the middle of FL.  Their loss changes the entire look of the place.  

I have not seen this in Brevard.

[NOT A TA]

55 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

I have not seen this in Brevard.

May see a change as time goes by. Counties affected by Bronzing in FL are shown on map in this publication. https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp163#FIGURE 11

[Reeverse]

58 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

yup.  All time record low there has been 14F.  

These Royals are in Port Orange about 5 miles south of the ones in the pic. They have been in the ground since the 90's so I think they have a chance 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

3 hours ago, Reeverse said:

These Royals are in Port Orange about 5 miles south of the ones in the pic. They have been in the ground since the 90's so I think they have a chance 

Those are great!  Wish I had some like that here.

 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

4 hours ago, Jimbean said:

I have not seen this in Brevard.

It's coming, maybe on a truckload of Sabal transplants.

[Jimbean]

5 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

May see a change as time goes by. Counties affected by Bronzing in FL are shown on map in this publication. https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp163#FIGURE 11

I just did some reading on the TPPD and it does not look good at all.  I'm going to be looking for that now.

[kinzyjr]

On 3/19/2019 at 8:13 PM, Jimbean said:

I just did some reading on the TPPD and it does not look good at all.  I'm going to be looking for that now.

This is a link to an clip on local news about TPPD/Lethal Bronzing disease and its effects on Tampa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPxG01D1xQ

Here is a similar link for SW Florida and its battle with Fusarium Wilt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRqU5jyYvZ8

[howfam]

On 4/1/2019 at 6:38 PM, kinzyjr said:

This is a link to an clip on local news about TPPD/Lethal Bronzing disease and its effects on Tampa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPxG01D1xQ

Here is a similar link for SW Florida and its battle with Fusarium Wilt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRqU5jyYvZ8

Well, are there any serious research in progress on how to combat Fusarium and these other deadly diseases? Seems the agricultural research community would have found a cure by now.

[kinzyjr]

8 hours ago, howfam said:

Well, are there any serious research in progress on how to combat Fusarium and these other deadly diseases? Seems the agricultural research community would have found a cure by now.

Currently, the best method of control is to plant resistant species in place of susceptible species.  Around town, new landscaping projects are increasingly using the ribbon palm (Livistona decora).  There is still currently no cure: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp139 & http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp278

As far as lethal bronzing is concerned, there is an antibiotic treatment similar to that for lethal yellowing, but without treatment it's a death sentence.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Wow this thread went grim real fast =/

[palmsOrl]

Do these diseases affect Roystonea or Cocos?

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Do these diseases affect Roystonea or Cocos?

For royals, I looked around a little and found there were some issues in the Canary Islands with a type of fusarium and issues in Malaysia with Yellow Decline Disease.  We have some pretty big Royals here that have been around a while and I haven't seen any of them exhibiting the symptoms I usually see with date palms, queens, our filibustas, or a few sabals here and there.

Lethal yellowing for coconuts is very similar to TPPD/ Lethal Bronzing.  I haven't come across any cases of these diseases killing coconuts, not saying it couldn't happen.

As @Keith in SoJax mentioned above, cities have started using more marginal plants that haven't shown susceptibility, like Pseudophoenix sargentii.  It's probably more cost effective to plant marginal plants that will survive all but our most devastating freezes than to plant a palm that is bulletproof to our weather but likely to contract a fatal disease within 6 months.  Hopefully, that means that the Roystonea regias in the original post are going to be there a long time.

4 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Wow this thread went grim real fast =/

To put a positive spin on it, keep in mind that I live in one of the worst affected areas.  I have 4 x Phoenix dactylifera, 1 x Phoenix canariensis, 10 x Phoenix theophrasti, plus a host of other susceptible sabals, syagrus, washingtonia etc.  I haven't had a case of fusarium or TPPD, thankfully.

[NOT A TA]

3 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Do these diseases affect Roystonea or Cocos?

Coconuts are affected by Lethal Yellowing but it's not as common as it was years ago here in S. E. FL due at least partially to the planting of more resistant varieties. Roystonea isn't on the lists for Lethal Yellowing,  Lethal Bronzing/TPPD ,  or Fusarium currently.

The scenario seems to get replayed over & over throughout relatively recent history not just with Palms but many types of plants. A certain type of plant becomes popular, many are planted, then a disease or insect comes along and flourishes while killing off the (over)population of the plant. Once host plants become widely separated the disease/insect dies off to a much lower level and the most resistant individual plants are the ones that have survived to reproduce.

New Haven CT is a perfect example of the over planting scenario. New Haven had the first public tree planting program in America, producing a canopy of mature trees (including some large Elms) that gave the city the nickname "The Elm City".  More and more Elms were planted until Dutch Elm Disease spread by the Elm Bark Beetle came along and forever changed the city. The once shaded streets in residential areas that were like huge tunnels under the arched canopies of the mature Elms became empty and open in a short period of time. If other types of trees were used along with the Elms the blighted appearance of the city wouldn't have been so bad, and the cost of removing them wouldn't have been such a burden on the city.

Planting large numbers of zone pushing plants of a particular variety in an area increases the probability of an insect/disease outbreak also. The plants are already under stress being out of their natural environment which makes them more susceptible to problems.

Edited May 23, 2019 by NOT A TA

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

1 minute ago, kinzyjr said:

For royals, I looked around a little and found there were some issues in the Canary Islands with a type of fusarium and issues in Malaysia with Yellow Decline Disease.  We have some pretty big Royals here that have been around a while and I haven't seen any of them exhibiting the symptoms I usually see with date palms, queens, our filibustas, or a few sabals here and there.

Lethal yellowing for coconuts is very similar to TPPD/ Lethal Bronzing.  I haven't come across any cases of these diseases killing coconuts, not saying it couldn't happen.

As @Keith in SoJax mentioned above, cities have started using more marginal plants that haven't shown susceptibility, like Pseudophoenix sargentii.  It's probably more cost effective to plant marginal plants that will survive all but our most devastating freezes than to plant a palm that is bulletproof to our weather but likely to contract a fatal disease within 6 months.  Hopefully, that means that the Roystonea regias in the original post are going to be there a long time.

To put a positive spin on it, keep in mind that I live in one of the worst affected areas.  I have 4 x Phoenix dactylifera, 1 x Phoenix canariensis, 10 x Phoenix theophrasti, plus a host of other susceptible sabals, syagrus, washingtonia etc.  I haven't had a case of fusarium or TPPD, thankfully.

I'm glad to hear your palms haven't been affected maybe hopefully they can figure out a cure sooner then later