sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 Took a look around the Christchurch Botanic Gardens' every increasing collection this morning, a beautiful early autumn morning around 57 (15C) degrees before a sunny 86 (30C) day.. Probably more suited to the Cold Hardy forum... but includes a number of 9b palms. Pretty good for 43 degrees south (similar to southern Ontario Canada). Having trouble resizing pics but will start with a few. and add more as we go. Nice stand of Nikau (both mainland and chatham island) Washies and big butia 13 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 Variety of butia capitata, sabal, livistonia? parajubaea toryalli and cocoides 7 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 Dypsis decipiens? Looks like it's had a few transplant issues but is putting out nice big spear/s. 8 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickybobby 1,104 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 Still hard for me to believe exact same latitude south has this climate. Great pics 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 This parajubaea is huge and very fast growing. Some other random shots. 6 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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kinzyjr 3,692 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 A really nice place! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoomsDave 8,516 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 @sipalms, keep them coming! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palm Tree Jim 1,009 Report post Posted March 13, 2019 Beautiful garden. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flow 187 Report post Posted March 14, 2019 That is probably my dream Climate. Not tropical but mild enough to grow such a nice variety of palms. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbmnz 392 Report post Posted March 14, 2019 Very cool. I had a good look around those gardens in November 2015 and thought that Nikau stand must have gone in since, otherwise how did I not see it. Found this article. https://ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/newsline/show/1080 So they have got through a least two full winters already, their prospects look good then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbmnz 392 Report post Posted March 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Flow said: That is probably my dream Climate. Not tropical but mild enough to grow such a nice variety of palms. There are at least 5 or 6 palms that will grow anywhere in the country except the high mountain areas. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 14, 2019 11 hours ago, cbmnz said: Very cool. I had a good look around those gardens in November 2015 and thought that Nikau stand must have gone in since, otherwise how did I not see it. Found this article. https://ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/newsline/show/1080 So they have got through a least two full winters already, their prospects look good then. Yeah I would say the nikaus have been in the ground for more like 4-5 years. The most obvious absence is a queen palm. Definitely would be a success there and a nice addition. Even an Alexandrae may even be a possibility with a bit of TLC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richnorm 479 Report post Posted March 14, 2019 On 3/13/2019 at 1:32 PM, sipalms said: Variety of butia capitata, sabal, livistonia? parajubaea toryalli and cocoides I think maybe Arenga micrantha. Are there any Hedyscepes down there? Nice pics, thanks. cheers Richard 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt in OC 1,015 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 I’d never heard of Christchurch until this thread. Thinking of you all on this awful day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richnorm 479 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Matt in OC said: I’d never heard of Christchurch until this thread. Thinking of you all on this awful day. The main target Mosque overlooks these gardens. Unbelievable that such a thing could happen here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redant 1,048 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 Beautiful garden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hillizard 1,345 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 5:50 PM, sipalms said: This parajubaea is huge and very fast growing. Some other random shots. Beautiful pictures!! That has to be one of the healthiest Parajubaea species I've ever seen photographed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SHEP 76 Report post Posted March 17, 2019 Thanks so much for this posting, its been almost twenty years since we have been there. Check out the Botanical Garden in Dunedin. Also, make a side trip just to see Akaroa across the bay from Christchurch. It is a beautiful place, and, I think it is about 70 K away by car. Cecile Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbmnz 392 Report post Posted March 19, 2019 On 3/15/2019 at 9:15 AM, sipalms said: Yeah I would say the nikaus have been in the ground for more like 4-5 years. The most obvious absence is a queen palm. Definitely would be a success there and a nice addition. Even an Alexandrae may even be a possibility with a bit of TLC. Yes, Queens are slightly more hardy than most Nikau so would surely go ok. Up here they have a sprinker system at the main gardens to protect the topical garden which has many Alexandrae amongst more tender stuff, but would hardly have used it the last three winters. Still in shock about what happened so close to there last week, don't know what to add that has not been said already. Has been an all consuming event in a country with a population only a little greater than one large US city metro area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TexasColdHardyPalms 3,039 Report post Posted March 24, 2019 That is the best looking parajubaea I've ever seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike in Nelson 6 Report post Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) If those Nikau do well then definitely A cunninghamania and Queens would do well too. Edited March 24, 2019 by Mike in Nelson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 25, 2019 11 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said: That is the best looking parajubaea I've ever seen. Curious to know why you think that? I haven't seen many parajubeas at all so don't really know what constitutes a good looker! When this one was first planted I thought it would make an ideal palm for my home garden. Little did I know just how massive these things get very fast.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Palms 516 Report post Posted March 25, 2019 It amazes me how they can grow Parajubaea and all those other exotics in Christchurch, given their average low temperature in July is 0.5C (33F) with 80-90 days of ground frost per year. My average low temperature in January (mid-winter) is actually warmer at 2.5C (37F) and I only have 50 days of ground frost, yet I can't grow Parajubaea here, or half of the stuff they do. In fact their average lows are colder than me across every one of the 12 months. Heck they even average a low of 53F (11.5C) in their warmest month, which is January. Which makes it all the more surprising that they can grow all that stuff. Like fair play to them and I envy their climate, to a degree. I'm just slightly puzzled at how Parajubaea can grow there, whereas it will die after two winters in my climate. I'm marginally drier than Christchurch as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, UK_Palms said: It amazes me how they can grow Parajubaea and all those other exotics in Christchurch, given their average low temperature in July is 0.5C (33F) with 80-90 days of ground frost per year. My average low temperature in January (mid-winter) is actually warmer at 2.5C (37F) and I only have 50 days of ground frost, yet I can't grow Parajubaea here, or half of the stuff they do. In fact their average lows are colder than me across every one of the 12 months. Heck they even average a low of 53F (11.5C) in their warmest month, which is January. Which makes it all the more surprising that they can grow all that stuff. Like fair play to them and I envy their climate, to a degree. I'm just slightly puzzled at how Parajubaea can grow there, whereas it will die after two winters in my climate. I'm marginally drier than Christchurch as well. Christchurch has a very very unique climate due to geographical position. Because there is no continental landmass to the east, south and North, and Australia a few 1000kms to the west, we are exposed to all various weather, all the time. We have the Southern Alps starting 100km west which provide shelter from the predominant westerly flow, and creates a fohn effect making hot extremes of weather much more common than other locations around NZ. It's not at all unusual to have a 19-23C maximum from time to time in mid winter Winter, even though the average max is 12, and it's not unusual to have a 13 degree high in mid summer after a powerful cold southerly weather system, when the average max is 23-24. Same with lows - over the next couple of days here, it's not expected to get below 20 degrees at night. Yet the average low for March is around 10 degrees. In mid December, we could have a low of just 3 or 4 degrees after a southerly system. This makes our averages seem a poor. One time I removed all 'outliers' out of several years of daily max / mins as a bit of an experiment - just removed the one or two or three really cold summer days, and the average was drastically different, marked increase in average min/max temps. I know this is completely unscientific but it proves a point that a few unseasonable days and drastically skew what a climate seems like on paper. In a Christchurch vs UK climate comparison the other factors to consider include solar heating, we're around 8 degrees closer to the equator than England's south coast (more like Bilbao in Spain) - Palms probably photosynthesize better regardless of external temp? Another one is daytime heating hours. There's a lot to consider.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, sipalms said: Christchurch has a very very unique climate due to geographical position. Because there is no continental landmass to the east, south and North, and Australia a few 1000kms to the west, we are exposed to all various weather, all the time. We have the Southern Alps starting 100km west which provide shelter from the predominant westerly flow, and creates a fohn effect making hot extremes of weather much more common than other locations around NZ. It's not at all unusual to have a 19-23C maximum from time to time in mid winter Winter, even though the average max is 12, and it's not unusual to have a 13 degree high in mid summer after a powerful cold southerly weather system, when the average max is 23-24. Same with lows - over the next couple of days here, it's not expected to get below 20 degrees at night. Yet the average low for March is around 10 degrees. In mid December, we could have a low of just 3 or 4 degrees after a southerly system. This makes our averages seem a poor. One time I removed all 'outliers' out of several years of daily max / mins as a bit of an experiment - just removed the one or two or three really cold summer days, and the average was drastically different, marked increase in average min/max temps. I know this is completely unscientific but it proves a point that a few unseasonable days and drastically skew what a climate seems like on paper. In a Christchurch vs UK climate comparison the other factors to consider include solar heating, we're around 8 degrees closer to the equator than England's south coast (more like Bilbao in Spain) - Palms probably photosynthesize better regardless of external temp? Another one is daytime heating hours. There's a lot to consider.... The 10 day forecast - is showing average max 22 degrees and average min 12.4 - these are averages for mid summer and we are now in late March.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave-Vero 609 Report post Posted March 25, 2019 I visited a few years ago. The Sabal palmetto was unhappy--probably never warm enough. The garden had problems with soil liquefaction in the earthquakes, which damaged tree roots. I heard about Christchurch's problems with heat and dry weather. The planting program seemed ambitious. But things are obviously coming along nicely. The city in general and the Garden in particular does put on an impressive alt/England display. The Christchurch climate is definitely not like the coastal Cornwall climate, which I got a peek at two years ago. BTW, I think I recall the Christchurch garden gift shop was selling lovely made-in-USA garden flamingos, which I looked for after coming home and never found. Somewhat off-topic, Portland, Oregon occasionally had summer winds from inland, which coming down from the Cascades, created a fohn/Santa Ana effect, so there'd be one or two 98-99 (36-37) degree days most summers. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Palms 516 Report post Posted March 25, 2019 and my average high in was 85F (29.5C 5 hours ago, sipalms said: Christchurch has a very very unique climate due to geographical position. Because there is no continental landmass to the east, south and North, and Australia a few 1000kms to the west, we are exposed to all various weather, all the time. We have the Southern Alps starting 100km west which provide shelter from the predominant westerly flow, and creates a fohn effect making hot extremes of weather much more common than other locations around NZ. It's not at all unusual to have a 19-23C maximum from time to time in mid winter Winter, even though the average max is 12, and it's not unusual to have a 13 degree high in mid summer after a powerful cold southerly weather system, when the average max is 23-24. Same with lows - over the next couple of days here, it's not expected to get below 20 degrees at night. Yet the average low for March is around 10 degrees. In mid December, we could have a low of just 3 or 4 degrees after a southerly system. This makes our averages seem a poor. One time I removed all 'outliers' out of several years of daily max / mins as a bit of an experiment - just removed the one or two or three really cold summer days, and the average was drastically different, marked increase in average min/max temps. I know this is completely unscientific but it proves a point that a few unseasonable days and drastically skew what a climate seems like on paper. In a Christchurch vs UK climate comparison the other factors to consider include solar heating, we're around 8 degrees closer to the equator than England's south coast (more like Bilbao in Spain) - Palms probably photosynthesize better regardless of external temp? Another one is daytime heating hours. There's a lot to consider.... Yeah, solar heating definitely plays a part due to Christchurch being at 43S. So the sunlight intensity will be much stronger than say at 51N in my location. This is especially apparent in winter as your daytime highs are a few degrees higher in winter. The other big factor is that I am not on the coast, and actually 30 miles inland. So while my average temps are warmer across the board than Christchurch, except for daytime highs in winter (due to solar heating), I am however more susceptible to extreme winter lows, due to being away from the coast. My record low stands at -13C, compared to Christchurch's -7C. So that is a massive difference and the biggest factor when it comes to what you can grow, in my opinion. Although this winter just gone, my lowest was only -5C. No damage at all on the Phoenix and Washingtonia. But next winter I could easily see -10C if a polar vortex reaches us from the nearby European mainland. Whereas NZ doesn't have a large continental landmass nearby. 30 miles south of me, on the West Sussex coast, their all-time record low is only around -8C with average winter lows generally around 5C. There are Parajubaea present on the south coast and in central London, just not inland outside of London or the south coast. Although the south coast doesn't get anywhere near as hot as me during the summer months. I had an average high temperature of 27C in June 2018, and 29C in July 2018, with 4 consecutive days that reached 36-37C and we also experienced a period of 10 weeks, from mid May - early August, where we did not get a single drop of rain. Combined with the mild winter we just had, I have no doubt in my mind that I could have had a Parajubaea thriving here, but it's really not worth the risk, or the investment, because when that one cold winter does hit, with lows down to -10C, they will be toast. That's the problem with my climate. You'll get the exotics through back to back mild winters and have them thriving after the hot, sunny summers... but you'll be lured into a false sense of security, only to get caught out by a polar vortex that we get once every 3-4 years. Again, Christchurch doesn't really have that problem. Even if your average lows are generally lower than mine here. You still aren't looking at a one off -10C once every 3-4 years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 Noticed this palm garden on a hillside suburb in Christchurch and the owner kindly let me take some photos. This is immediately following winter so things are a bit tattier than usual but shows what can be grown around here this far away from the equator. She said the 4 bangalows are around 15 years old from small pots / seedlings. Also had bouganvillea climbing around the side of the house which gives it quite a SoCal look in summer. She is planting a lot more so I'll aim to give a summer update in the future. This view reminds me a lot of phoenix AZ or parts of LA. Just a pity that the mountains aren't more clear. Dragon tree and some aloes Beautiful healthy Archontophoenix The pictures don't show size very well but these were two storeys high. Quite a few Nikaus lurking around in the shadows. Help me ID this??? Nice Butia across the street. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 Here is the climate data from Wikipedia. These readings are taken from the airport. You could effectively remove all of the temperatures below -6C for the Botanic Gardens, and all of the records below zero for the pictures just uploaded (hill suburbs get very little if any frost). Looking at more recent data from CliFlo, the daily summer maximums shown in this chart in are around 2 degrees lower than reality. The last three summers the daily average high in Dec/Jan has been more like 24.5C (which is still a cool summer by most standards). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbmnz 392 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 This was Jan 2019 Jan 2019 Average Temps, Rainfall, Sunshine and departures from 1981-2010 normals ℅ NIWA Site T-max °C T-min °C T-mean °C Rain mm Sun hrs Auckland, Mangere 24.4 +1.0 17.8 +1.9 21.1 +1.5 36 59% 288 124% Auckland Aero 24.4 +0.8 17.8 +1.8 21.1 +1.3 32 48% Tauranga Aero 26.7 +2.8 17.4 +2.3 22.1 +2.6 16 20% n/a n/a Hamilton Aero 25.6 +1.3 14.0 +1.6 19.8 +1.5 32 39% Hamilton, Ruakura 26.6 +1.6 14.5 +1.6 20.5 +2.1 23 29% 271 118% Wellington, Kelburn 22.5 +2.2 15.4 +1.9 18.9 +2.0 25 33% 258 104% Christchurch Aero 25.1 +2.5 13.4 +1.5 19.2 +2.0 30 85% 251 105% Dunedin, Musselburgh 21.2 +2.3 12.9 +1.3 17.0 +1.7 84 115% 216 120% Greymouth Aero 19.5 -0.3 12.9 +0.5 16.2 +0.1 134 64% 218 108% 2018 Jan 2018 Average Temps, Rainfall, Sunshine and departures from 1981-2010 normals ℅ NIWA Site T-max °C T-min °C T-mean °C Rain mm Sun hrs Auckland, Mangere 25.8 +2.4 19.0 +3.1 22.4 +2.8 121 198% 212 91% Auckland Aero 26.1 +2.5 18.9 +2.9 22.5 +2.7 66 99% Tauranga Aero 25.3 +1.4 18.9 +3.8 22.1 +2.6 136 173% n/a n/a Hamilton Aero 26.3 +2.0 16.5 +4.1 21.4 +3.1 112 136% Hamilton, Ruakura 26.7 +2.7 15.8 +2.9 21.3 +2.9 275 347% 188 82% Wellington, Kelburn 23.5 +3.2 17.2 +3.7 20.4 +3.5 86 114% 210 85% Christchurch Aero 24.4 +1.8 15.3 +3.4 19.9 +2.7 115 320% 221 93% Dunedin, Musselburgh 21.6 +2.7 14.7 +3.1 18.1 +2.8 54 74% 244 135% Greymouth Aero 22.9 +3.1 16.7 +4.3 19.8 +3.7 306 146% 217 108% +2-3C above those published 1980-2010 averages seems to becoming the new normal. 2017 was cooler, but 2015 and 2016 were warm also. Heat loving palms must be getting happier by the year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
el-blanco 396 Report post Posted September 25, 2019 Beautiful!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albey 73 Report post Posted September 27, 2019 On 3/25/2019 at 2:35 PM, UK_Palms said: It amazes me how they can grow Parajubaea and all those other exotics in Christchurch, given their average low temperature in July is 0.5C (33F) with 80-90 days of ground frost per year. My average low temperature in January (mid-winter) is actually warmer at 2.5C (37F) and I only have 50 days of ground frost, yet I can't grow Parajubaea here, or half of the stuff they do. In fact their average lows are colder than me across every one of the 12 months. Heck they even average a low of 53F (11.5C) in their warmest month, which is January. Which makes it all the more surprising that they can grow all that stuff. Like fair play to them and I envy their climate, to a degree. I'm just slightly puzzled at how Parajubaea can grow there, whereas it will die after two winters in my climate. I'm marginally drier than Christchurch as well. Hi UK_Palms We do not get 80-90-days of frost ( May be true at the airfield during a cold Winter ) but in the City no where near that. I get around 15-frosts during a mild Winter / average Winter would be 25-frosts and a cold one would be around 40-frosts and i live on the flat ( Central-south ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chester B 1,226 Report post Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) If you want to see something trippy, look at this. Similar to Christchurch except slightly more sunshine, slightly more rain, warmer in the summer but all time lows are worse. I can't grow anywhere near the variety of plants in the photos. As far as frost is concerned, I get <10 days per year - last year we only had 4. Edited September 27, 2019 by Chester B 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albey 73 Report post Posted September 28, 2019 On 3/25/2019 at 2:35 PM, UK_Palms said: It amazes me how they can grow Parajubaea and all those other exotics in Christchurch, given their average low temperature in July is 0.5C (33F) with 80-90 days of ground frost per year. My average low temperature in January (mid-winter) is actually warmer at 2.5C (37F) and I only have 50 days of ground frost, yet I can't grow Parajubaea here, or half of the stuff they do. In fact their average lows are colder than me across every one of the 12 months. Heck they even average a low of 53F (11.5C) in their warmest month, which is January. Which makes it all the more surprising that they can grow all that stuff. Like fair play to them and I envy their climate, to a degree. I'm just slightly puzzled at how Parajubaea can grow there, whereas it will die after two winters in my climate. I'm marginally drier than Christchurch as well. Hi UK_Palms Here is the last 2-weeks of max temps here in Christchurch City at my place and we are only 3-weeks out of Winter. 13.7 / 20.8 / 18.1 / 13.7 / 16.1 / 16.1 / 15.7 / 13.3 / 20.9 / 17.8 / 17.0 / 18.1 / 16.2 / 21.5 - this was today's temp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted November 21, 2019 Came across these these parajubea t.v.ts in a back yard near the botanic gardens (there are two but the other is out of sight). I tried getting hold of the owner to get some good photos of the trunks but couldn't. I think these are a perfect palm for this climate as they grow solidly for 3/4 of the year. Also very coconutty too... 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted November 21, 2019 Or could they be coicoides? They have much deeper green, less upright fronds and no sign of silver under the leaves. What do you think folks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbmnz 392 Report post Posted November 21, 2019 7 hours ago, sipalms said: Came across these these parajubea t.v.ts in a back yard near the botanic gardens (there are two but the other is out of sight). I tried getting hold of the owner to get some good photos of the trunks but couldn't. I think these are a perfect palm for this climate as they grow solidly for 3/4 of the year. Also very coconutty too... Great looking hardy palm. Would plant one myself if I had more space. Not easy to find in NZ though and not cheap when I have seen them. I have had non palm people occasionally tell me they have seem a coconut palm growing in NZ, was probably one of these. Can forgive a non palm person for being fooled. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sipalms 815 Report post Posted November 21, 2019 53 minutes ago, cbmnz said: Not easy to find in NZ though and not cheap when I have seen them. Any ideas where to get one from? I think this will be the next addition to my yard ............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbmnz 392 Report post Posted November 21, 2019 https://www.coastpalms.co.nz Had a couple of large grade PVT for sale last September when I went over there, they wanted about $1000 ea for them which was fair as they were huge and healthy, but seem to have sold out now. When I went there they had about 30 Chattam Nikau ( R. Sapida var Oceanina) in PB18 in stock from which I picked my 3. This year judging by their website they have none of those, only much larger grade ones for 6 times the price. It shows you do have to grab palms when they are available sometimes, no guarantee you could get the same thing 6 months or a year later. Glad I snapped up two R. Baueri from my local Mitre 10 last month, they were a steal at $34 each. None there now and who knows when more might appear.This one is in a 60L half barrel for now as will need to come against the house and under the roof overhang for winter as they are apparently not as hardy as the Chats. My three little Chats breezed through the mild winter this year and are really taking off now :) 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
