Palms and Exotics of Christchurch, New Zealand

[JasonD]

On 3/12/2019 at 5:32 PM, sipalms said:

Variety of butia capitata, sabal, livistonia? parajubaea toryalli and cocoides

Well, I'm feeling enlightened. What a remarkable palm collection for such a high latitude. Beautifully maintained and beautifully photographed! The first photo in this set shows a young Jubaea chilensis along with the veteran Phoenix canariensis. I'm also fascinated by the climate comparisons. How does Christchurch differ from Hobart, Tasmania, which would appear to have similar parameters. Perhaps Hobart is a bit less extreme? I know Troy has lots of tender palms in his garden there. Brookings, Oregon, would be an interesting place to compare, climate-wise.

[JasonD]

On 3/12/2019 at 5:27 PM, sipalms said:

Took a look around the Christchurch Botanic Gardens' every increasing collection this morning, a beautiful early autumn morning around 57 (15C) degrees before a sunny 86 (30C) day..

Probably more suited to the Cold Hardy forum... but includes a number of 9b palms. Pretty good for 43 degrees south (similar to southern Ontario Canada).

Having trouble resizing pics but will start with a few. and add more as we go.

Nice stand of Nikau (both mainland and chatham island)

Washies and big butia 

 

 

Did you happen to ID the beautiful canopy trees were shading the young nikau? The one with the walnutty leaves--I wonder whether it's a Cedrela species.

[sipalms]

3 hours ago, JasonD said:

does Christchurch differ from Hobart, Tasmania, which would appear to have similar parameters. Perhaps Hobart is a bit less extreme?

Topography.

Hobart is a hilly city, whereas Christchurch is dead flat apart from a large volcano to the south, on which the hill suburbs are. Think heavy frosts for the flat (most of the city) and nearly no frost for the hills and coastline.

 Kentia etc grow okay in Hobart, but only survive on the hills and coastline around Christchurch - inland on the flat they would die before mid winter.

Christchurch is an extremely borderline city for most palms, with a very unique climate! You just have to drive around and find the microclimates.

[sipalms]

3 hours ago, JasonD said:

Did you happen to ID the beautiful canopy trees were shading the young nikau?

No, but they did look quite tropical. I'll have to go back and see if there's a tag on/below the tree.

[cbmnz]

Could be Ailanthus altissima  (Tree-of-Heaven)?

[sipalms]

Just thought I would do a yearly update on this collection. Sorry if you're bored.

I deliberately picked a time very close to the same day, and same time of day as last time, for comparison's sake.

Everything looks excellent (thanks to Guillaume, the curator of this collection). The Dypsis decipiens is in intensive care in the shade house, after having a continual struggle with root problems. The Parajubaea cocoides is also in the shade house after getting damaged by -2C frosts.

Wouldn't it be great if the Parajubaea TVT fruited? It is bordering on trunking. 

The Sabal palmetto would have to be one of my favourites of this entire collection. It is growing rapidly now and looks extremely healthy. It has flowered several times but hasn't yet fruited, probably due to lack of consistent heat.

As always the Nikau palms look fantastic and Guillaume has noted one or two are almost trunking.

 

[SHEP]

Do you have any pictures of the Rock Garden?  If you do, could you post in the lower section for other plants?   We first visited this garden in 1991, later 1995 briefly, but, spent more time at the Botanical Garden in Dunedin, the Rock Garden is s spectacular .  Any chance that you were able to visit and take pictures there.  We also visited Akaroa, and, were so surprised at this French colony that settled there, my memory says approximately the same time as the British.  I don't remember palms in Akaroa, it was a French settlement, but, it is a spectacular place to see, so different than Christchurch, yet so close.  Cecile Shepard

[sipalms]

On 3/19/2020 at 3:56 PM, SHEP said:

Do you have any pictures of the Rock Garden?  If you do, could you post in the lower section for other plants?   We first visited this garden in 1991, later 1995 briefly, but, spent more time at the Botanical Garden in Dunedin, the Rock Garden is s spectacular .  Any chance that you were able to visit and take pictures there.  We also visited Akaroa, and, were so surprised at this French colony that settled there, my memory says approximately the same time as the British.  I don't remember palms in Akaroa, it was a French settlement, but, it is a spectacular place to see, so different than Christchurch, yet so close.  Cecile Shepard

Sorry I don't, but will aim to get some next time I'm in the area!

Yes, Akaroa is pretty interesting. Back in the mid 1800s The French subtly sailed in with a bunch of families and planted the tricolour and settled in. Then the Brits who were setting up camp in the North Island got wind of this treachery and promptly sailed down and annexed the whole area, but graciously donated the settled land to the French families who were already there.

So nowadays when you drive over the caldera of the volcano into Akaroa harbour, everything is quite français!

Back then the whole place would have been a jungle of nikau palms and natives... Not any more. Olive groves and vineyards and cruise ships (until recently) are the order of the day.

[sipalms]

Couldn't resist posting this pic of sunset today looking from the Pacific ocean to the Alps across the city. 

I know they're just phoenix's.... (For all you CIDP snobs out there...!) But they look the part.

Some other day I will post a record of all the other palms around these hill and oceanside suburbs. There's a ton of 9a and 9b palms around the place. Some of the ones I saw while up there include;

Washingtonia Robusta/filibusta (lots of)

Washingtonia Filifera (pure) x3 telephone poles

Livistonia of some sort... Huge one

Rhopalostylis - Chatham, mainland (many)

Howea Forsteriana x1 small trunking

Syagrus Romanzoffiana (many and varied sizes)

Archontophoenix Cunninghamia (several huge ones)

Butia Capitata (many of varying sizes)

Phoenix robellini, caneriensis and dactilifera (many of all sizes)

Jubaea Chilensis (smallish)

I live on the flat in Christchurch where most of the above palms would be no-goes, so it feels like another country and climate in these seaside areas.



And a few aloe/agaves

Way out in the distance across Pegasus bay (100miles) you can see the Kaikouras, which is a mountain range up to 9000ft pretty much right next to the ocean. This is where a 7.8 magnitude earthquake occurred in 2016 which sent a small tsunami rumbling across this bay.

[sandgroper]

Beautiful photos mate, it looks a very pretty spot you have there.

[sipalms]

On 11/21/2019 at 2:04 PM, sipalms said:

Came across these these parajubea t.v.ts in a back yard near the botanic gardens (there are two but the other is out of sight). I tried getting hold of the owner to get some good photos of the trunks but couldn't. I think these are a perfect palm for this climate as they grow solidly for 3/4 of the year. Also very coconutty too...

It's amazing what you find when biking a different way home from work.

Here's another couple of beautiful parajubeas growing in a back yard in Christchurch that I came across today; they're in a totally different suburb to the ones pictured above:

I take it they're T.V.T?

Looks like someone about 10 years ago has been selling these things in twos and now they're looking spectacular!

I wish I could get my hands on one of these, they seem to suit the climate here and are incredibly coconut looking. Even some seed, if anyone knows how.

What age/size do they start fruiting?

Edited August 19, 2020 by sipalms

[richnorm]

I have a tonne of seed forming on a very robust and spectacularly fast growing form.  More than happy to send you some when mature.

[sipalms]

28 minutes ago, richnorm said:

I have a tonne of seed forming on a very robust and spectacularly fast growing form.  More than happy to send you some when mature.

Count me in!!

Could you upload some pictures of it?

[richnorm]

2 hours ago, sipalms said:

Count me in!!

Could you upload some pictures of it?

This is 10 years from seed with no water or fertilizer ever and much nibbling from the sheep.   It flowered for the first time last year and I now have more than a dozen huge bunches of fruit at various stages.  I hope it's not flowering to death!  The mother plant is massive.

[sipalms]

14 minutes ago, richnorm said:

This is 10 years from seed with no water or fertilizer ever and much nibbling from the sheep.   It flowered for the first time last year and I now have more than a dozen huge bunches of fruit at various stages.  I hope it's not flowering to death!  The mother plant is massive.

That is a beautiful palm and wow, a lot of fruit alright! Interesting to see the size of the fruit too, looks pretty large. 

10 years from seed - that is fast.

I'm thinking this will be the perfect canopy palm planted in a group at my next house. Those fronds would provide great protection for more cold sensitive palms here, like Nikau, and by the looks of things they wouldn't be competing for space in a hurry.

It'd be great if the one at the Christchurch Botanic garden started producing seed - it looks a similar size.

[sipalms]

Little update on a nice exotic back yard in Cashmere Hills. The owner kindly let me take some pics, she's done an amazing job and has a lot of interesting stuff, the garden is a bit of a mashup of mediterranean / tropics / kiwiana / south pacific / arid. 

Of course the stand out is the Archontophoenix - pretty special to see these great big beauties here so far away from the Equator (43S)! Nice to see the bougainvillea as well.

 

Some cool staghorn ferns hanging out.

 

Great views out over the city.

 

 

[Phil Petersen]

On 2/2/2021 at 8:40 AM, sipalms said:

Little update on a nice exotic back yard in Cashmere Hills. The owner kindly let me take some pics, she's done an amazing job and has a lot of interesting stuff, the garden is a bit of a mashup of mediterranean / tropics / kiwiana / south pacific / arid. 

Of course the stand out is the Archontophoenix - pretty special to see these great big beauties here so far away from the Equator (43S)! Nice to see the bougainvillea as well.

 

Some cool staghorn ferns hanging out.

 

Great views out over the city.

 

 

Great pictures SIPalms. Superb to see what can be done in a well sited and carefully arranged backyard this far from the equator. Im down in Dunedin and after doing a bit of research have discovered that we have a reasonably good growing climate. Will be those mild winter lows that dont really get below freezing. Im in Andersons Bay (base of the peninsula) on a north facing hillside so we rarely see any ground frost. Some gullies in Dunedin are frigid on calm winter mornings, but it all seems so variable based on location and orientation. Still harvesting cherry tomatoes off alive plants in the open in mid june and the tamarillo are flowering through winter.

I was in mitre10 the other day in Dunedin and picked up an Archontophoenix purpurea ~1m high for $35. Felt like i was walking out with stolen goods!

Going to be interesting getting that one established and growing here in the back yard in a few years, have just the spot in mind. 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Phil Petersen
Noticed mistakes and being pendantic :)

[cbmnz]

Will be interesting to see what does well for you there. That's good you can get palms like Archontophoenix in mitre 10 there too - they seem to have heaps of palms now, whereas in 2018 when I got into palm growing again, they had hardly any.

[Phil Petersen]

On 6/19/2021 at 8:32 PM, cbmnz said:

Will be interesting to see what does well for you there. That's good you can get palms like Archontophoenix in mitre 10 there too - they seem to have heaps of palms now, whereas in 2018 when I got into palm growing again, they had hardly any.

Yes Mitre 10 has a lot of interesting stuff these days! 

Just got the one Archie, have many Nikau, mainly Chathams and Baueri. Seem pretty good growers year round here so far, just need my sheltering vegetation to get up a bit to support planting out by blocking some wind and sun. Reckon about 3 years and Ill start getting palms in the ground. 

[UK_Palms]

On 2/1/2021 at 7:40 PM, sipalms said:

Little update on a nice exotic back yard in Cashmere Hills. The owner kindly let me take some pics, she's done an amazing job and has a lot of interesting stuff, the garden is a bit of a mashup of mediterranean / tropics / kiwiana / south pacific / arid. 

Of course the stand out is the Archontophoenix - pretty special to see these great big beauties here so far away from the Equator (43S)! Nice to see the bougainvillea as well.

 

Some cool staghorn ferns hanging out.

 

Great views out over the city.

 

 

 

Unbelievable photos. Shows what being 8-9 degrees closer to the equator can give you. While my summers are arguably a shade warmer here, my winters are not. While I wish my climate was as good as this, I am a tad outside of these boundaries. My area may well look like this in a decade or so, with continued zone pushing and climate change, but it is clearly an entire climate zone ahead of me right now. The Nikau's shown here are especially are out of this world. I couldn't grow them here. I do have one in the ground here, so it will definitely be tested this coming winter. As far as aspirations go though... well...

[Tyrone]

10 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

Unbelievable photos. Shows what being 8-9 degrees closer to the equator can give you. While my summers are arguably a shade warmer here, my winters are not. While I wish my climate was as good as this, I am a tad outside of these boundaries. My area may well look like this in a decade or so, with continued zone pushing and climate change, but it is clearly an entire climate zone ahead of me right now. The Nikau's shown here are especially are out of this world. I couldn't grow them here. I do have one in the ground here, so it will definitely be tested this coming winter. As far as aspirations go though... well...

Apart from the problem of the absolute lows that a nikau will take (-4C is the accepted limit) planted in a protected spot that may save it from the harshest of the cold, I think you’ll be amazed how well they will grow for you in the cool weather. They definitely don’t need summer heat to grow so apart from the depths of winter they should motor along well for you. 

[UK_Palms]

4 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Apart from the problem of the absolute lows that a nikau will take (-4C is the accepted limit) planted in a protected spot that may save it from the harshest of the cold, I think you’ll be amazed how well they will grow for you in the cool weather. They definitely don’t need summer heat to grow so apart from the depths of winter they should motor along well for you. 

It looks like some of those Nikau's may be tested in Christchurch tonight, especially newly planted, younger specimens. Lows of -4C to -5C in the western suburbs. Even out near the coast in the eastern suburbs, I am seeing some -3C to -4C readings. No idea how many hours they will be below freezing for, but I doubt the Nikau's will be happy. Still another 3-4 hours of radiational cooling to go as well. A lot of places outside of the city centre may go down to -5C, perhaps even -6C. They will probably experience some cosmetic damage to fronds.

 

Surprised to see -2C and -3C readings along the coast. 

 

I don't know what part of the city Simon is in, but he obviously grows Nikau's and Queens there. I'm guessing he resides in one of the more milder areas. I would be interested in knowing what his exact low is, going by his own recordings or a nearby station. The Botanic Gardens in the centre of the city appear to be at -3C now, but the southern parts of the city are hovering around -1C, so a marked difference compared to the -5C readings out in the northwestern suburbs. You can almost see what areas will be able to support Nikau's, and what areas won't. 

 

Anyway, theres no chance of Nikau's surviving here for me Tyrone, especially without any UHI influence. Maybe in London or the south coast, but not here. I could get them through 2-3 mild winters (2019, 2020) but then I will experience Nikau killing temps about every 4 years on average. I mean I had -11C here as recently as February 2018. Even nearby Guildford went down to -9C or -10C during the famed 'Beast from the East'. The two CIDP's in Guildford survived unfazed though, but it was a bad freeze, even by our standards.

The fact that I have no UHI doesn't help one bit this far north. Places like central London and the south coast didn't drop below -5C during the February 2018 freeze. Central London is at least 5C warmer than me on my coldest of cold nights. The difference between rural Surrey and central London is night and day. I am 8b/9a here, whereas central London is often 10a most years nowadays. I may have to move to the south coast in the coming years, so I can plant all my palms and exotics, such as the Nikau's. There is no way in hell that I am relocating to London. 

[sipalms]

4 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I don't know what part of the city Simon is in, but he obviously grows Nikau's and Queens there. I'm guessing he resides in one of the more milder areas. I would be interested in knowing what his exact low is, going by his own recordings or a nearby station. The Botanic Gardens in the centre of the city appear to be at -3C now, but the southern parts of the city are hovering around -1C, so a marked difference compared to the -5C readings out in the northwestern suburbs. You can almost see what areas will be able to support Nikau's, and what areas won't. 

This is nothing out of the ordinary for us @UK_Palms. Whilst it'll likely be the coldest morning of the year, it is calm and pleasant and a completely cloudless day. The actual time at those lows is probably 3-6 hours at a max. I'll run through my yard thermometer readings later this morning (unfortunately I don't have a WiFi one) but very much doubt it'll any more than around -5. Last week we had -5.2 at the airport but I only recorded -4.2 at my place.

I don't grow Nikau out in the open at my place, I do have 5 large queens which will get some frond burn as per usual winter, but bounce back in spring.

Nikaus are hardly found anywhere on the flat. The ones at the Botanic gardens should be fine, maybe some minor tip burn, but again this is nothing out of the ordinary for Christchurch. Most of the Nikaus and other sensitives are on the hills where it doesn't appear to have even gotten below 0, maybe -1 at the most.

[sipalms]

10 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I would be interested in knowing what his exact low is, going by his own recordings or a nearby station.

Just checked my thermometer and my low this morning was -4.3 which lasted for around 40 mins between 0705 and 0735. This was a nasty frost no doubt but was very short in length and followed by bright sun. My high so far is 11.5 just before 1pm.

Queen looking green but sadly the newest frond snapped during a bad wind a couple of weeks ago.

This one is also none the wiser. A bit of yellowing on some leaflets.

This one appears quite yellow which it is, but probably more to do with the horizontal light coming from a low sun rather than cold damage.

10mm thick ice in the wheelbarrow!

 

 

[Tyrone]

10 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

It looks like some of those Nikau's may be tested in Christchurch tonight, especially newly planted, younger specimens. Lows of -4C to -5C in the western suburbs. Even out near the coast in the eastern suburbs, I am seeing some -3C to -4C readings. No idea how many hours they will be below freezing for, but I doubt the Nikau's will be happy. Still another 3-4 hours of radiational cooling to go as well. A lot of places outside of the city centre may go down to -5C, perhaps even -6C. They will probably experience some cosmetic damage to fronds.

 

Surprised to see -2C and -3C readings along the coast. 

 

I don't know what part of the city Simon is in, but he obviously grows Nikau's and Queens there. I'm guessing he resides in one of the more milder areas. I would be interested in knowing what his exact low is, going by his own recordings or a nearby station. The Botanic Gardens in the centre of the city appear to be at -3C now, but the southern parts of the city are hovering around -1C, so a marked difference compared to the -5C readings out in the northwestern suburbs. You can almost see what areas will be able to support Nikau's, and what areas won't. 

 

Anyway, theres no chance of Nikau's surviving here for me Tyrone, especially without any UHI influence. Maybe in London or the south coast, but not here. I could get them through 2-3 mild winters (2019, 2020) but then I will experience Nikau killing temps about every 4 years on average. I mean I had -11C here as recently as February 2018. Even nearby Guildford went down to -9C or -10C during the famed 'Beast from the East'. The two CIDP's in Guildford survived unfazed though, but it was a bad freeze, even by our standards.

The fact that I have no UHI doesn't help one bit this far north. Places like central London and the south coast didn't drop below -5C during the February 2018 freeze. Central London is at least 5C warmer than me on my coldest of cold nights. The difference between rural Surrey and central London is night and day. I am 8b/9a here, whereas central London is often 10a most years nowadays. I may have to move to the south coast in the coming years, so I can plant all my palms and exotics, such as the Nikau's. There is no way in hell that I am relocating to London. 

Fair enough then. I’ve never been to the uk in winter (always summer) soi have no concept of that sort of cold. I’ve never even seen snow before.

Maybe if you ever move to the south coast around Torquay or similar, or even Bournemouth do you think a nikau might be in with a fighting chance? 

[Tyrone]

10 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Just checked my thermometer and my low this morning was -4.3 which lasted for around 40 mins between 0705 and 0735. This was a nasty frost no doubt but was very short in length and followed by bright sun. My high so far is 11.5 just before 1pm.

Queen looking green but sadly the newest frond snapped during a bad wind a couple of weeks ago.

This one is also none the wiser. A bit of yellowing on some leaflets.

This one appears quite yellow which it is, but probably more to do with the horizontal light coming from a low sun rather than cold damage.

10mm thick ice in the wheelbarrow!

 

 

I hope it didn’t cause your plants any long term damage. 

[sipalms]

@UK_Palms here's another interesting thing about the winter climate here; some really cold freezes but also some 20+ degree days thrown into the mix. So while my palms like queens get a bit grumpy, they don't get depressed in the darkness and cold of winter if you know what I mean, because they get a little bit of warmth and plenty of sunshine as well.

This is the official data from Christchurch airport from a period over the last few weeks; note that the minimums are actually in the coldest area of the city.

[UK_Palms]

On 7/12/2021 at 2:57 AM, Tyrone said:

Fair enough then. I’ve never been to the uk in winter (always summer) soi have no concept of that sort of cold. I’ve never even seen snow before.

Maybe if you ever move to the south coast around Torquay or similar, or even Bournemouth do you think a nikau might be in with a fighting chance? 

You’ve made a wise call in avoiding winter visits, Tyrone. While not excessively cold or anything, it is just dark, gloomy, wet and chilly. Not nice, especially if you are used to a warmer climate. The days are so short as well in winter, although on the flip side it means we get really long summer days, which I love.

If I do move to the south coast, I would probably go to the Worthing-Brighton-Hove area. The further east that you go, even along the coast, the cooler the summers get and the less sunshine in general. When Brighton was 35C last August, places like Bournemouth and Torquay were like 25C. Nikau’s will probably make it on the south coast in UHI zones, with some overhead cover from tree canopies. 

[UK_Palms]

12 hours ago, sipalms said:

@UK_Palms here's another interesting thing about the winter climate here; some really cold freezes but also some 20+ degree days thrown into the mix. So while my palms like queens get a bit grumpy, they don't get depressed in the darkness and cold of winter if you know what I mean, because they get a little bit of warmth and plenty of sunshine as well.

This is the official data from Christchurch airport from a period over the last few weeks; note that the minimums are actually in the coldest area of the city.

I’m surprised you had -4.3C as a low in your area. I just assumed that you were in one of the warmer areas of the city and would have recorded something like -1C or -2C perhaps. Still the daytime warmup clearly negates the effect of any overnight freezes there.

I had a few nights in February that went down to -3C, but then the next day only went up to like -1C here. Barely any daytime warmup. So I was below freezing for at least 48 hours, while at the same time not having any severe lows. Although that would probably do more damage than having a low of -6C followed by a high of +10C. 

The shorter days and lack of sunshine in winter don’t help here. No chance of me reaching 20C in winter either. I had 22C in February 2019 but the warmest January day I have ever seen is like 17C. So that is another big difference between say Christchurch and London. You guys have pretty good daytime warmups. 

Our climates are relatively similar, outside of winter at least, but Christchurch clearly benefits from being 8 degrees closer to the equator. Much more sun and less severe winter freezes there. Hence why I went down to -11C in Feb 2018 and why I have some winter days that may not get above 0C. Then again I am also 30 miles inland here. 

[Tyrone]

13 hours ago, sipalms said:

@UK_Palms here's another interesting thing about the winter climate here; some really cold freezes but also some 20+ degree days thrown into the mix. So while my palms like queens get a bit grumpy, they don't get depressed in the darkness and cold of winter if you know what I mean, because they get a little bit of warmth and plenty of sunshine as well.

This is the official data from Christchurch airport from a period over the last few weeks; note that the minimums are actually in the coldest area of the city.

You’ve had more warm 20C days than I’ve had here. We haven’t had any for weeks. But then we haven’t gone below about 1.5C either. 

[Tassie_Troy1971]

On 11/28/2019 at 7:50 PM, JasonD said:

Well, I'm feeling enlightened. What a remarkable palm collection for such a high latitude. Beautifully maintained and beautifully photographed! The first photo in this set shows a young Jubaea chilensis along with the veteran Phoenix canariensis. I'm also fascinated by the climate comparisons. How does Christchurch differ from Hobart, Tasmania, which would appear to have similar parameters. Perhaps Hobart is a bit less extreme? I know Troy has lots of tender palms in his garden there. Brookings, Oregon, would be an interesting place to compare, climate-wise.

Hi Jason

Here in Hobart we have hilly topography just like San Francisco. In my garden the summer temps range from 18C - 26 C  average with nights between 10 - 16 C. Winter is between 10c - 16 C average with only the lightest frosts -0.5 C is my lowest ever temperature since 2007.   Kentias, Hedyscepe all the archontophoenix , Dypsis baaronii grow really well unprotected.