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Trachycarpus Fortunei Success Rate in Mid-Atlantic?


LasPalmerasDeMaryland

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I’m thinking about trying Trachycarpus Fortunei again this year. I’ve tried 3 before. The first winter had a low of about 12° in which 1 spear pulled (but made a full recovery), 1 died, and 1 was fine. I mulched the bases and wrapped them all in burlap for that winter. The more damaged ones were planted out in the open and the one that was fine was planted in the open but next to an evergreen shrub on the Northwest side. The next spring/summer I added a Wagnerianus. The next winter was much harsher with a low of 5° and ice storms. I was preoccupied and pretty depressed during that period and didn’t have the motivation to protect any of them. They all croaked (I even had a Sabal minor ‘McCurtain’ that bit the dust after almost no damage the previous winter). 

Anyways, I’m hoping to try a Fortunei again this year. I’m thinking about doing somethings different to insure success. I’m getting my Fortunei from Plant Delights in a cultivar called ‘Greensboro’ which is reported to be a hardier strain. I’m also thinking of planting it closer to my house on a Southwest wall with a stone/concrete (not entirely sure what the material is to be honest) foundation. 

I’m curious to know what are the experiences y’all have had with Fortunei in the Mid-Atlantic zone 6-8. I’ve seen huge specimens grown in DC and the surrounding areas. Especially at the home of some guy named Panama John. I saw a huge windmill in Alexandria, VA (zone 7a) online which has to be about 2 stories tall.  If Fortunei’s can grow in DC and Northern VA, they should be able to grow in the Southeastern Baltimore region. Their climates should be roughly the same (Though being slightly further north, Baltimore could even be a little warmer due to the influence from the Chesapeake Bay as during winter storms, my area is usually below the freezing line and gets a wintry mix or rain). 

So for my area (For the past 20 years, 6 Winters have been 7b, 1 has been 7a, and 14 have been 8a), what precautions would I need to take to aid a Fortunei? My native soil doesn’t drain the best and is usually soaked for a day after a rainfall (I’m going to do the Soil mason jar test on my soil for a more accurate picture). I was thinking about putting a huge bucket over the palm during freezing precipitation. Would I need to apply heavy protection to the palm? I’ve heard they don’t like being overprotected so I don’t want to smother them. Do they get hardier with age? (I’ve heard the younger ones are wimpy). Sorry for all the questions, I’m just in a pickle haha. 

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When I used to live in Pennsylvania z6b, I protected my T. Fortunei with a frost cloth, blankets, and Christmas lights. This worked most years for me but I would get heavy defoliation in below average winters. In my 8a climate, I have been using buckets as my primary method of protection for my Washingtonias. Just be careful with using plastic buckets since cold plastic can burn palm leaves. I have also heard that heat lamps and portable space heaters work as well, but I never experienced with that method yet.

Since you mentioned that your location had only one 7a winter within a 20 year period, I wouldn't worry too much about heavy protection unless a major cold spell is predicted. On the contrary, recently planted palms should be protected until they become established, especially in marginal climates. Once established, your palm will probably be a little hardier. 

 

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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20 minutes ago, NC_Palms said:

Since you mentioned that your location had only one 7a winter within a 20 year period, I wouldn't worry too much about heavy protection unless a major cold spell is predicted. On the contrary, recently planted palms should be protected until they become established, especially in marginal climates. Once established, your palm will probably be a little hardier. 

 

Thanks for the tips! Yeah, the 7a winter was during the polar vortex a few years ago. 

I was thinking about heavy wrapping and maybe heat-releasing Christmas lights only for the cold spells, and for normal weather just a light wrapping and mulch. Since most of our weather isn’t nearly cold enough to kill palms. It’s those darn cold snaps once or twice a year. XD

 

Id imagine that if T. Fortunei can survive z6b (albeit defoliation) it should have a chance in z7b/8a! 

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Can you look here and tell us your actual zone?  https://www.plantmaps.com/hardiness-zones-for-baltimore-maryland

A small palm can spear pull at temps under 21F ish.  A palm from plants delight will need to be protected for several years till it is fairly large.  

I'd protect like the pics below for at least a couple years.  Thermocube/mini's Christmas lights inside.  

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Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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According to the USDA, I’m a Zone 7b and According to the Arbor Day map, I’m Zone 7/8. 

If I were to plant a zone 8a plant, it would have heavy protection every year. 

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7B is not bad but temps in this range 5-10F can damage/possibly kill larger palms and probably kill small trachy palms

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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3 minutes ago, Allen said:

7B is not bad but temps in this range 5-10F can damage/possibly kill larger palms and probably kill small trachy palms

A 5° low last year did kill my palms. But they were young and planted in the open. I’m definitely planting my new Trachy next on a Southwest facing wall with a brick foundation. Hopefully a micro-climate will help. 

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The problem when you move up the east coast is not so much you final zone but the duration of your cold events. I'm technically a zone 8a but Palmeto's, Butia, trachy's are bulletproof here. Why? Our cold snaps are brief and rarely does it not get into the 40's at least during the day. 

 

 

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I had trachycarpus survive 7b temperatures in the 17/18 winter and they recovered magnificently! They have since seen 7a once this winter with zero protection. Will let yall know how they fair probably around late March to April timeframe. Most likely going to lose everything but rhapidophyllum and possibly a small sago. Yuccas and magnolia aren't even flinching.

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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Larger ones tend to be hardier. There is one in my area that has been here for many years, in the Winter the owner only wraps the TRUNK (not even the growth point either) with a light wrap of burlap and Christmas lights. I have only seen it get badly damaged once (spear and inner leaves were still green). It is in a great spot too. here is a picture of it. Once you start to get deep into the zone 7b or higher areas of Southeastern Virginia, trachys become fully hardy. 

Screenshot_20180831-134202_Snapchat.jpg

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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I wish I had more experience to share, but I will say we have to contend with more than just our hardiness zones here. Long duration cold, even if it isn’t extreme, can do the same (sometimes more) damage as a single extremely cold night. And precipitation isn’t your friend during January and February.

My Trachycarpus fortunei (now potted) had never experienced under 12°F while in the ground, it did get close to 0°F one night but it was covered with a plant pot under feet of snow that I piled on it.

When I dug it out it:

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All was well until April arrived and the spear began rotting out of nowhere, invisible damage brought about by an extended period of colder than normal temperatures, despite the palm looking pristine coming out of winter. The palm recovered and is now several times larger than it was in the pic above, it’s just in a pot for now.

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Here are some long term 7b trachycarpus in Maryland. Top pic is during the 2018 winter event in OC. Bottom pic is old but the palm apparently is still around on solomons island. It CAN be done in the right setting and if you are in Baltimore near the 7b 8a area in the city then you have a good chance!

 

But like @RJ said our issue isn't absolute lows, rather incursions from up north can last longer the further north you go. We have 360 days of trunking palm growing weather and 5 days of needle/minor/magnolia grandfloria growing weather....

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Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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Hello my name is Kevin and I am the owner of www.islandwidepalmtrees.com. We are based out of Long Island NY and I have been successfully keeping windmills alive up in the North East for ove the past 4 winters with our wrapping system. I do not think you will have a problem keeping yours alive if wrapped  properly.  I believe the key to wrapping the tree is to keep the crown dry with proper ventilation... If you do not allow proper ventilation it cause the air stagnate and start to cause fungus in the crown and on the fronds... check out my website and you can see how we wrap them... I think its a pretty good system that is easy to set up and take down....  Three winters ago we started using a canvas cover.... which is breathable but not cheap.. so this winter we started making covers out of frost cloth which will alot more cost effective...If there is any I can do for you just let me know. I will enclose some pictures of our cover.

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I am having a hard time uploading photos...  attached is link to my palm cover page... it shows our canvas cover.... not the white frost cloth one..  in the video on that page it also shows a white plastic bag cover we made also... https://www.islandwidepalmtrees.com/palm-covers.html

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/18/2019 at 7:44 AM, islandwidepalmtrees.com said:

 frame_and_frost_cloth_over_fronds.jpg

That looks like a pretty good system. What is your heat source for these? I can grow trachycarpus, chamaerops humilis, washingtonia (to an extent.. sometimes robustas lose fronds but recover in spring) out in the open.. but I’ve been wanting to experiment with some zone 9 palms. This could make that feasible. 

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I think he uses c9 bulbs and a thermocube.  I would suggest the mini's are better because they have no ability to burn foliage like c9's.  The total wattage and wrapping over the Christmas lights is what gives you the needed heat coupled with a 35/45 thermocube.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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On 4/4/2019 at 11:37 AM, Allen said:

I think he uses c9 bulbs and a thermocube.  I would suggest the mini's are better because they have no ability to burn foliage like c9's.  The total wattage and wrapping over the Christmas lights is what gives you the needed heat coupled with a 35/45 thermocube.

Which are the mini's you reference?

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Christmas outdoor rated mini lights (Incandescent NOT LED)  are .4 watts each.   Walmart lowes still sells them.  Look for GE brand.  So they come in strings of 50 or 100 usually.  100 would be 40 watts.  This will warm a wrapped palm or shelter usually 10-20 degrees for small palms.  Large trunk-ed palms get about 100 mini lights per foot of trunk to push 1-2 zones.  

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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29 minutes ago, Allen said:

Christmas outdoor rated mini lights (Incandescent NOT LED)  are .4 watts each.   Walmart lowes still sells them.  Look for GE brand.  So they come in strings of 50 or 100 usually.  100 would be 40 watts.  This will warm a wrapped palm or shelter usually 10-20 degrees for small palms.  Large trunk-ed palms get about 100 mini lights per foot of trunk to push 1-2 zones.  

Thank you!

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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