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sipalms

Mini-California at 43 degrees S

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sipalms

Had the chance to visit Gore bay near Christchurch. Was amazed at the variety of sensitive palms growing there near the sea - reminded me of coastal California. The bangalows and Nikau looked especially healthy which was great. This particular day demonstrated classic coastal Canterbury conditions with a cool seabreeze moderating the temperature near the coast (around 26 degrees C) yet after driving over the hills into the inland valleys, the temperature was in the mid 30's C, very dry and ideal wine growing conditions.

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sipalms

Then heading inland, the temperature rises dramatically and the landscape becomes extremely dry, with the heat and dry air from the Fohn wind coming across the southern alps. The Waipara valley is an increasingly popular wine region.

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gilles06

Nice place, looks very quiet...

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mdsonofthesouth

Very cool! But I have to admit its blood boiling and infuriating seeing so many people much further from the equator than me being able to grow so much more and not having to suffer from the terribleness of winter LOL. 

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cm05

40°N here - super jealous, looks absolutely stunning there.

And I would’ve suspected it was California if you hadn’t said otherwise.

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sipalms
14 hours ago, gilles06 said:

Nice place, looks very quiet...

Sure is quiet! only 1 million people populate the South Island, which is only slightly smaller than the state of Florida...

You're more than welcome to migrate. We are looking for more numbers down here.

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sipalms
4 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

Very cool! But I have to admit its blood boiling and infuriating seeing so many people much further from the equator than me being able to grow so much more and not having to suffer from the terribleness of winter LOL. 

I agree - but at least you get some consistent hot weather! We can get wild variations in temperature, thanks to being surrounded by ocean and mountains. Although this summer has been excellent so far.

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PalmTreeDude

I am at 37°N and basically can't grow crap (outside of cold hardy palms like Trachys, needle palms, and Sabal minor) because of that good old little handful of winter days that keep my zone lower. Without them we would probably be considered 9a! But, I love our hot summers (which a lot of people tend not to like). These palms look great! The water looks nice and blue as well. I love the looks of Nikau and Bangalow palms. Thank you for sharing these awesome photos of what New Zealand is capable of growing! 

Edited by PalmTreeDude

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sipalms
19 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I am at 37°N and basically can't grow crap (outside of cold hardy palms like Trachys, needle palms, and Sabal minor) because of that good old little handful of winter days that keep my zone lower. Without them we would probably be considered 9a! But, I love our hot summers (which a lot of people tend not to like). These palms look great! The water looks nice and blue as well. I love the looks of Nikau and Bangalow palms. Thank you for sharing these awesome photos of what New Zealand is capable of growing! 

thanks - yes this is just a small portion of what can be grown in New Zealand. In the upper North Island you can see just about any common palm short of Coconuts (and some other tropical heat demanding palms). South of here - about all that grows is Phoenix caneriensis. 

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Rickybobby

It’s funny I live exactly at 43 degrees north in southern Ontario Canada but not on the ocean you like are only surrounded by the Great Lake lakes. 

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cbmnz

Thanks for the photos, had no reason to doubt reports that Bangalows grew on the South Island's East coast, but great to actually see them- healthy looking and not babies. If mine makes it, will be in the running for a different NZ record, furthest from the coast (60km or so). I know of one decent sized specimen in Cambridge only.

These ones convinced me was worth trying one - they're in worst possible spot at the bottom of a dip near open ground, yet those three have made it to that height and flowering.

I saw quite a few large ones in Nelson on a recent trip so that's another place in South Island >40S that they grow. 

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pin38

39 degrees north but middle of North America here... I think the hardiest Sabal minor varieties are about the only possibilities here.

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sipalms
On 2/23/2019 at 9:31 PM, cbmnz said:

Thanks for the photos, had no reason to doubt reports that Bangalows grew on the South Island's East coast, but great to actually see them- healthy looking and not babies. If mine makes it, will be in the running for a different NZ record, furthest from the coast (60km or so). I know of one decent sized specimen in Cambridge only.

These ones convinced me was worth trying one - they're in worst possible spot at the bottom of a dip near open ground, yet those three have made it to that height and flowering.

I saw quite a few large ones in Nelson on a recent trip so that's another place in South Island >40S that they grow. 

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Yes I've always enjoyed seeing all the Bangalows in the Waikato area. For some reason sometimes they actually look even better than some in the Auckland/upper north Island away from vigorous coastal winds.

I remember being in the central Waikato area in June once when there was a very heavy frost, and the ice on the cars etc was thicker than I have ever seen here in Canterbury. I wondered how on earth the bangalows and nikaus handled it, fully exposed!

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greysrigging

Most of NZ is relatively mild if comparing latitude. I visited the South Island from Australia many years ago in December and had a full week of +30c ( 86f ) temps even way south at Queenstown and Milford. Christchurch was about 35c ( 95f ) and those inland towns in Central Otago were pushing 100f.

My Son and his mates visited the South Island in June 2015 and hired a camper van to tour around.... The were in the McKenzie district and Otago ( Twizel ) and the overnight min dropped to -20c. My son ended up very sick in Queenstown with hypothermia ( as would be expected flying into a NZ winter from 12*S tropical Darwin ) Anyway, I digress.... those pics are amazing and I wouldn't have believed how 'tropical' the place looks at 43*S !

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cbmnz
5 hours ago, sipalms said:

Yes I've always enjoyed seeing all the Bangalows in the Waikato area. For some reason sometimes they actually look even better than some in the Auckland/upper north Island away from vigorous coastal winds.

I remember being in the central Waikato area in June once when there was a very heavy frost, and the ice on the cars etc was thicker than I have ever seen here in Canterbury. I wondered how on earth the bangalows and nikaus handled it, fully exposed!

Yeah, bit of mystery that, but they do. Thicker ice could be because there is more moisture available to freeze into ice. One theory says that acts an insulator, keeps the leaf tissue closer to the air temperature. Other possible reasons are that the frosts are almost exclusively radiational, never advective, and daytime temperatures always warm up again, almost always to double figures (C).
Other things that should not be here - there is a massive multi-trunk Phoenix roebelenii growing near the city centre. And there are a handful of huge must be >30 years old Meryta sinclairii (Puka) trees in private gardens if you know where to look.  I see there is a smallish one at that Gore Bay properly also.

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sipalms
9 hours ago, cbmnz said:

Yeah, bit of mystery that, but they do. Thicker ice could be because there is more moisture available to freeze into ice. One theory says that acts an insulator, keeps the leaf tissue closer to the air temperature. Other possible reasons are that the frosts are almost exclusively radiational, never advective, and daytime temperatures always warm up again, almost always to double figures (C).
Other things that should not be here - there is a massive multi-trunk Phoenix roebelenii growing near the city centre. And there are a handful of huge must be >30 years old Meryta sinclairii (Puka) trees in private gardens if you know where to look.  I see there is a smallish one at that Gore Bay properly also.

Yeah puka is pretty common around here, anywhere other than on the flat lands of the plains where the frost can be just a little too severe.

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cbmnz

Yeah, have heard they can grow as far South as Dunedin if near the coast. They don't need heat, just absence of heavy frost. They are a 9B indicator plant.

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cbmnz
On 2/25/2019 at 4:44 PM, sipalms said:

Yes I've always enjoyed seeing all the Bangalows in the Waikato area. For some reason sometimes they actually look even better than some in the Auckland/upper north Island away from vigorous coastal winds.

Spotted this tall one today. Possibly a good example of that.20190302_194645.thumb.jpg.e02fe7dd789e4ba7aa9f9282f84e5409.jpg

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cbmnz

Was surprised to see many mature Kentia (Howea forsteriana) in Nelson (41S) on the flat when went there for first time last year. Have always considered it more frost tender than Archontophoenix. Would not try one here, but did spot someone who has. So will watch what happens to it, when ever get a proper winter again.   Selection_025.thumb.jpg.49cfd49c3c1f3c8a283e701ee226e33e.jpg

 

 

 

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bubba

I understand NZ is one incredible place and your pictures confirm!

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sipalms

Warning.... no palm photos... 

Thought I would add some photos from a trip this week showing some contrasts in terrain on the south island of new zealand.

These photos are all within a two hour drive between Fairlie and Omarama in the Canterbury region, in the interior of the southern alps where a variety of contrasting environments exist in a pretty small area including badlands/high desert type environments.

First off is rolling hill country of Fairlie...

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Then after crossing a mountain pass and gaining a lot of altitude, a high desert type environment - very little vegetation, poor quality rocky soils and extreme temperature changes. This particular day was only around 32 degrees but temperatures in the late 30s are common here, as well as low as -15 in a cold winter.

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The pinky/brown tinge to the snow in these photos is from the Australian bushfire smoke... 

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sipalms

Then descend back down to Tekapo, followed by Lake Pukaki.

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Mt Cook, the prominent peak in these photos, is the highest peak in Oceania at 3724 metres / 12,218ft. The blue is completely natural from the glacial 'flour' suspended in the water.

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Then, back into the high desert type environment near Omarama. This is where the Omarama clay cliffs are - one of just two areas of badlands that exist in New Zealand.

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sipalms

I spoke with a couple from the US (Virginia) who said this area reminded them a lot of their travels in Nevada/Arizona/California desert areas.

(But no rattlesnakes - NZ doesn't have any snakes!) Just lots of lizards.

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GottmitAlex

I honestly thought New Zealand was England but with subtropical, Mediterranean weather.

Beautiful scenery. 

 

 

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Shiveringtropicals

Those last pics are amazing, i never would have guessed that new zealand has badlands.

It has such a diverse landscape, rainforests, grasslands, badlands, arid regions, glaciers, mountains, volcano's, etc.

and then there's the amazing flora and fauna.

i just have to visit that country someday.:wub:

 

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sandgroper

Beautiful photos, NZ is an amazing country.

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sipalms
30 minutes ago, Shiveringtropicals said:

i never would have guessed that new zealand has badlands.

To be fair, I didn't either until going there. 

All it would need is Grove of W. Filiferas, and you'd have a perfect replica of some of those oases in the palm desert of CA. We visited Indian Canyon once and it reminded me a lot of this area.. I doubt filiferas would survive though... Temps around -15 aren't uncommon along with snow.

@RyManUtah did you mention once about the most northerly filiferas in the US, what sort of temps do these get faced with?

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Rickybobby

Amazing 

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RyManUtah
1 hour ago, sipalms said:

@RyManUtah did you mention once about the most northerly filiferas in the US, what sort of temps do these get faced with?

the furthest north stands i have seen growing in the wild were just below 37N, in Nevada. This area in a mid 8b, average extreme temp of 18F. I’d imagine they see lower teens and single digits on rare occasions. This is where I get all of my seed. There could be more.
I know they get cultivated a lot further north in California and Oregon. One of the Oregon growers would have to chime is as to how far north, before they lose the summer heat. In Utah one can cultivate them until about 37.2 N without protection of any sort, depending on altitude. We see single digits about once a decade. 

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RyManUtah

Loving that scenery! Looks like my kind of place. Hot, dry and sunny with mountains. Thanks for sharing! 

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Chester B
2 hours ago, RyManUtah said:

the furthest north stands i have seen growing in the wild were just below 37N, in Nevada. This area in a mid 8b, average extreme temp of 18F. I’d imagine they see lower teens and single digits on rare occasions. This is where I get all of my seed. There could be more.
I know they get cultivated a lot further north in California and Oregon. One of the Oregon growers would have to chime is as to how far north, before they lose the summer heat. In Utah one can cultivate them until about 37.2 N without protection of any sort, depending on altitude. We see single digits about once a decade. 

I saw them as far as Gold Beach, Oregon but I think they could probably be a little further north.

 

I spent 3 months in NZ a while back, it’s a beautiful place.  

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NorCalKing

The first set of pictures looks IDENTICAL to Cali. It could be 10 minutes from home for me. (Except the ocean pics, as I'm inland)

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Xenon

Amazing shots. Thanks for sharing. 

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NOT A TA

Never knew how diverse & beautiful it is there!

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