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What exactly are strap leaves and how long do they last?


SilverDragon

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I have admired and loved palms for a very long time, but only have been growing them from seed for a few months now. My very first seedlings (W. robusta & A. merrillii) have just now started putting out cotyledons. I have seen many pictures of young palms with "strap leaves", which I am guessing are the early leaves a palm produces before it makes true leaves. How long does a palm have strap leaves before it produces true leaves?

Edited by SilverDragon

“Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you.” –Frank Lloyd Wright

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4 minutes ago, SilverDragon said:

I have admired and loved palms for a very long time, but only have been growing them from seed for a few months now. My very first seedlings (W. robusta & A. merrillii) have just now started putting out cotyledons. I have seen many pictures of young palms with "strap leaves", which I am guessing are the early leaves a palm produces before it makes true leaves. How long does a palm have strap leaves before it produces a true leaves?

You are correct on the definition of strap leaves.  The time it takes to produce mature fronds will vary.  Washingtonia Robusta is usually not very long... maybe in a year or so.  There are a few volunteers down the road that have them and they are literally growing out of a crack in the sidewalk.  Adonidia I'm not sure.  I have a few that just sprouted myself.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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17 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

You are correct on the definition of strap leaves.  The time it takes to produce mature fronds will vary.  Washingtonia Robusta is usually not very long... maybe in a year or so.  There are a few volunteers down the road that have them and they are literally growing out of a crack in the sidewalk.  Adonidia I'm not sure.  I have a few that just sprouted myself.

Good to know. I also had a sort of general question for the seedlings I mentioned; they are in roughly 4" deep biodegradable jiffy pots, and they are on top of a heating mat (sitting at about 80-90 degrees F everyday). Additionally, they are under a plastic dome in a regular plastic tray (in order to maintain humidity), and are near a bright light (I can't remember the wattage). I would've posted a picture, but I am not an IPS member (yet). My question is, are the pots going to be big enough for a little while? I've seen many palms in very tight pots, but I was recommended to use 6" deep pots, however specific gardening supplies are difficult to come by in the winters up here, and plastic pots can be $4 a pop, as opposed to 80 cents for terra cotta or jiffy during the spring and summer.

Edited by SilverDragon
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“Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you.” –Frank Lloyd Wright

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Deeper pots are much better for palms, particularly fan palms, which are remote germinators and put out long radicles (i.e., "first root"). You will have to repot those Washies sooner rather than later as they are fast growers that send out aggressive roots. General rule is starting palm seeds in 6" deep pots but some species like Bismarckia require 14"+ pots. Adonidia are not nearly as aggressive as Washies, but very shallow pots can present problems for them that may require up potting soon after germination. Better to start their seeds in 6" pots so seedlings can grow undisturbed as long as possible.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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6 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Deeper pots are much better for palms, particularly fan palms, which are remote germinators and put out long radicles (i.e., "first root"). You will have to repot those Washies sooner rather than later as they are fast growers that send out aggressive roots. General rule is starting palm seeds in 6" deep pots but some species like Bismarckia require 14"+ pots. Adonidia are not nearly as aggressive as Washies, but very shallow pots can present problems for them that may require up potting soon after germination. Better to start their seeds in 6" pots so seedlings can grow undisturbed as long as possible.

Good to know. I half guessed that I'd need to move them to larger pots, so I figured the biodegradable jiffy pots would allow me to just poke more holes in the bottom (to allow the roots through) and place the whole thing in a larger pot without disturbing the roots, since I read most palms don't like that. Does this seem like a good idea?

Edited by SilverDragon

“Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you.” –Frank Lloyd Wright

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That would work. No point in undoing what is already done. Washies & Adonidias are common as dirt so are good to practice germinations skills on before you attempt rarer species. I experimented on Sabal seeds when I first attempted germinations. Easy and gratifying for beginners.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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8 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

That would work. No point in undoing what is already done. Washies & Adonidias are common as dirt so are good to practice germinations skills on before you attempt rarer species. I experimented on Sabal seeds when I first attempted germinations. Easy and gratifying for beginners.

Is there a good place online for me to find affordable 6" deep pots?

“Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you.” –Frank Lloyd Wright

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50 minutes ago, SilverDragon said:

Is there a good place online for me to find affordable 6" deep pots?

Amazon. You can pick up 10 pots for about $10 plus shipping. Or if you go local, Lowe’s and HD carry them. OR if you’re really economical, cut in half 2 liter bottles I’ve used for seeds etc. 

where are you located? IMO after seeing how Washingtonia grow, you could sprout the seeds and place directly in the ground. 

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Another option, once your spring season kicks in, check in w/ any local nurseries in your area. I'd imagine there are places that will allow you to take some used 1+ gallon containers if you ask.. Every place i have worked allowed anyone who inquired to plastic containers destined for the trash. Easy to wash out and re-use.. Do it all the time, at least until the containers are worn out, lol. 

FYI, regardless of where you end up getting your pots, pursue the harder plastic cans.. they last a lot longer than the flimsy not so well made ones. 

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28 minutes ago, AZPalms said:

Amazon. You can pick up 10 pots for about $10 plus shipping. Or if you go local, Lowe’s and HD carry them. OR if you’re really economical, cut in half 2 liter bottles I’ve used for seeds etc. 

where are you located? IMO after seeing how Washingtonia grow, you could sprout the seeds and place directly in the ground. 

Thanks I'll give Amazon a look. I am in the Cleveland area (6b), so the most exciting thing I have in my garden is Opuntia humifusa. I have dabbled with the idea of Trachys, Needle palms, and hardy banana, but never would've guessed Washingtonia as an option for up here.

Edited by SilverDragon

“Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you.” –Frank Lloyd Wright

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4 minutes ago, SilverDragon said:

Thanks I'll give Amazon a look. I am in the Cleveland area (6b), so the most exciting thing I have in my garden is Opuntia humifusa. I have dabbled with the idea of Trachys, Needle pal, and hardy banana, but never would've guessed Washingtonia as an option for up here.

Send me a message. I have a nice filifera that grew all summer as a volunteer in my yard here in AZ. It’s yours if you want it. 

C8D40E0F-272C-425B-8031-5440C054C9A5.jpeg

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@SilverDragon!

Nice to meet you!

I'm a recovering Clevelander myself.

See my PM (Private Message).

If you can get any palms to grow in the ground up there. . . .

There's one that might make it, Rhapidophyllum hystrix, native to the southeastern U.S. It takes down to about 25 F, but needs a hot summer. There was an old Italian dude near Kent who supposedly had some in the ground.

dave

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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8 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

@SilverDragon!

Nice to meet you!

I'm a recovering Clevelander myself.

See my PM (Private Message).

If you can get any palms to grow in the ground up there. . . .

There's one that might make it, Rhapidophyllum hystrix, native to the southeastern U.S. It takes down to about 25 F, but needs a hot summer. There was an old Italian dude near Kent who supposedly had some in the ground.

dave

Correction: R hystrix takes down to about minus 25 F.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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15 hours ago, SilverDragon said:

How long does a palm have strap leaves before it produces true leaves?

As others have mentioned the time varies depending on the species.  I've germinated Mauritia flexuosa seeds (see my avatar) that grew its first leaves that were palmate, albeit small (no strap leaves) but I grew Sabal guatemalensis from seeds for over 6 years in a container before developing adult palmate leaves!  The seeds germinated in May 2012 and are planted in the ground now for about 18 months now and still have several strap leaves, but happily they are now picking up speed (finally!)  Patience is key in this hobby.  Here they are in 2014 - the Mauritia flexuosa on the left and the Sabal guatemalensis on the right (with some taller Syagrus romanzoffiana mixed in - a tangled mess!).

001.thumb.JPG.e86a7a245c3bc9ec19eb13dcf445429b.JPG

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Jon Sunder

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Even palm spp which are closely related like these two spp Lytocaryum weddellianumbatavum«) and Lytocaryum insigne can show very different appearances: L  weddell didn’t have any strap leaf at all, but L insigne’s first eight leaves were all undivided.

18021783_N17032017-12-16P1040205.thumb.jpg.cf129d3b0296547c4ef1ae731d424b0f.jpg

922368570_N14082017-03-05P1030397.thumb.jpg.8d96a9527e64e4f58a11a65533e38b5c.jpg

 

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My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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I was wondering what "strap leaves" were as well.  I assumed they were leaves that you strap during transportation :unsure:  You learn something new everyday!  Lol.

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20 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Deeper pots are much better for palms, particularly fan palms, which are remote germinators and put out long radicles (i.e., "first root"). You will have to repot those Washies sooner rather than later as they are fast growers that send out aggressive roots. General rule is starting palm seeds in 6" deep pots but some species like Bismarckia require 14"+ pots. Adonidia are not nearly as aggressive as Washies, but very shallow pots can present problems for them that may require up potting soon after germination. Better to start their seeds in 6" pots so seedlings can grow undisturbed as long as possible.

Yikes! About 4 months ago, I potted up 8 Pritchardia seedlings from 1 gal into 3 gal (not deep) pots... Did I just set them up for failure???

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How tall are those 3g pots? Most 3g nursery pots are deep enough for Pritchardias. Do you have photos?

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Here’s a little survey of my Maternity Container Ranch.

D623AB41-C5D0-4F23-8108-55C6B5E1C927.thumb.jpeg.efc4aa91f4a777ea7a832048cf7629dc.jpegCF61D0F9-85CC-42A3-BD95-DF1E85F3CD27.thumb.jpeg.c16493eb9cf4b56776b479da96f9d467.jpeg

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Most of the babies seem to go pinnate or palmate after four or five baby leaves.

Here’s some Cocothrinax dussiana.

E61E1C6B-C8EB-4371-AA21-EF97937CAA75.thumb.jpeg.5c297a42008ee235c92c501d75469495.jpeg

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Here’s kentiopsis oliviformis 

380B2263-81A7-4082-AF95-62E0FDA463FA.thumb.jpeg.73924800fca34d528f14e2e59704fe8e.jpeg

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Here’s Chamadorea species 

688B0A35-3C54-44BE-9F18-CE5AD9396C73.thumb.jpeg.3d6cb86fc7334262edc411e90f1afcaa.jpeg

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Lovely babies Dave!

“Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you.” –Frank Lloyd Wright

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