Tracking down croton cultivars

[Apoplast]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here.  I didn't see an "introduce yourself" board, so please excuse the error if there is one and I was to introduce myself there.  I guess I'll do so here as this is my first post.

I live in Minnesota.  I know what you are thinking "well, that's just prime palm growing right there!"  And of course, you're right.  It's our placid and equitable climate that not only allows us to grow verdant and enviable gardens, but draws in so many people to seek a life here, as well as the numerous visitors to our great state.  Our gentle summers which often get into the upper 30's and even the low 40's from time to time, combined with our hospitable winters, which not infrequently hover in the low -20's with the occasional cold spell dipping down towards -35 or so, but only briefly overnight (all temperatures in Celsius).  As I am sure you can imagine, truly this is a paradise.

It is in this optimal climate, I grow plants for a university.  We have a bit more than 1,800 species of plants, spread over about 200+ plant families.  It is working collection.  Our plants are primarily used for education, and outreach, but also get some use with faculty research.  It's quite rewarding to be able to get others excited about all things green and living.  We have everything from submerged aquatics, to xerophytes, to parasitic plants, from noxious invasive species, to some species which are sadly extinct in the wild (don't worry we have permits for it all).  The breadth of the collection and needs is sometimes challenging, but that's what makes it so enjoyable.

I am excited to now have registered for this forum so I can tap into the incredibly deep knowledge, and wide ranging interests and experience found here.  I feel lucky to have this resource available.  Thank you to everyone who has contributed here.  This forum an incredible accomplishment!

Currently, I am trying to track down 3 cultivars of croton (Codiaeum variegatum): 'California' though not 'Super California', 'Fish Bone', and 'Buddy' a.k.a. 'Edwin Lonsdale'.  I've tried nurseries, including specialist nurseries, with no luck so far.  Although, I certainly do not have a great handle on the likely numerous sources.  It's an occupational hazard of working with so many kinds of plants; you can't be deeply involved in communities for all of them.  So, despite that fact that this is a palm forum, I know there is some really good croton knowledge here as well.  I'd love suggestions about where I could try to track down these three cultivars I am seeking.  I'm happy to work with nurseries, private collectors, other universities or botanical gardens with good collections.  I can pay or trade.  I'd take cuttings or rooted plants.  But, it would be easiest if I didn't need to import anything.  Yes, I have permits.  Lots of permits.  No shortage of paperwork here.  That said, when possible I prefer not to have to use them.

If you have suggestions, please feel free to reply to this thread, or PM me here.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[Marie Nock]

I'm curious as to where you saw reference to the croton California.  I've been growing crotons for 20 years and have over 500 varieties but don't know of this one.  Is it an Australian cultivar?  The extensive croton wiki on the Palmpedia site http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/CROTON_ONLINE_REFERENCE doesn't list it either.  I grew Super California for awhile but it's not a strong grower so lost it after a couple of years.

The only person I know who sells and ships crotons is "mda1515" on Ebay.  Good luck in your quest!

 

[Palm Tree Jim]

Have you tried Peter's Crotons?

He does ship and seems to have a nice collection.

Also, welcome to Palm Talk!

[Silas_Sancona]

11 minutes ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

Have you tried Peter's Crotons?

He does ship and seems to have a nice collection.

Also, welcome to Palm Talk!

Will second Jim's recommendation, have seen his plants / spoken with him a few times at plant sales while still in Florida in the past.. 

[Apoplast]

Thanks for the recommendation, Silas Sancona and Palm Tree Jim (Thanks too for the welcome!)!  I have tried Peters, and unfortunately he didn't list the cultivars I asked about in his reply. 

Hi Marie Nock.  I've seen photos a few places, though search engines return quite a lot of irrelevant material with the search terms "croton" and "California" when you are seeking a specific cultivar.  The nearest thing I could find to a supplier for the strain is Foremost, I've attached their list of varieties here for you.  Unfortunately, they are quite a few steps removed in the hort business from the numbers I need.  I suppose I could contact them and try to follow orders they've sent out, assuming they would even share that information.  I guess I was hoping someone here might know folks who are super into crotons in FL and would be willing to introduce me.  It might be a bit of a wild goose chase looking for specific cultivars, but I'm going to try any how. 

Does anyone know a croton guru they'd be willing to introduce me to?

Oh, and I have palms too.  And interest in them.  I felt like that needed to be stated given the forum this is on.  It's just not germane to the current thread.

Croton_Product_Info_Sheet-ForemostCo.pdf

[PalmatierMeg]

@Jeff Searle a member here, also an IPS member in SE FL, has a huge nursery that specializes in rare palms and crotons. Send him a private message (PM).

Welcome to PalmTalk. You sold me on a trip to MN.

[Apoplast]

Hi Meg,

Thanks for the reply!  I'd heard about his collection, and I contacted Mr. Searle awhile back.  Turns out he doesn't ship plants.  So that leaves me right out for now.  Oh well.  Good idea though, thanks again!

[waykoolplantz]

You got a reply from Marie Nock...who “we” call the high priestess of crotons ...Judy Glock the other..and if she ain’t heard of it you may be chasing a figment.

A  university funded trip to S Florida is in order. We will be hosting our second annual  Croton Fest on April 6...our Royalty will be in full regalia...the illustrious  Jeff Searle will be our auctioneer and you will see 3-400 croton varieties...some recent hybrids & sports.

 

last year’s gathering

[annafl]

I think the biggest problem is that it is inordinately expensive to ship crotons.  They cannot be shipped bare-root and be expected to do well on the other end.  A pot filled with media is heavy and very expensive to ship.  I've shipped a few crotons and the price for a regular person (one who doesn't have an account with a shipping company) is prohibitive.  It is also difficult to pack a nice, full croton or even a nice air layer without damage.  I think Waykoolplantz above is right.  If you really want them, it's best to make the trip down to either croton vendors or croton auctions where you can select/obtain them yourself and transport them back.  The cultivars you want (excepting California which I've never heard of), are not difficult to find.  You will probably find ones you like even more!  Good luck!

[Palmarum]

On 2/21/2019 at 10:08 PM, Apoplast said:

Hi Meg,

Thanks for the reply!  I'd heard about his collection, and I contacted Mr. Searle awhile back.  Turns out he doesn't ship plants.  So that leaves me right out for now.  Oh well.  Good idea though, thanks again!

I know Jeff Searle doesn't ship plants, but if you want to see a list of Croton cultivars he has now as a reference, follow the link to posted list over at Palmpedia:

Link: Croton List

Searching for Croton info is always troublesome, I always have to filter through obscure, unrelated info, mostly about the watch brand.

Ryan

[Apoplast]

Hi Waykoolplantz - Thanks so much for your reply!  A lot to unpack there.  If I miss anything, I do apologize.  First off, I agree, a university trip is in order.  Luckily, I have one planned to Fairchild this spring.  Unluckily for crotons, right now the plan is to do it during Redland Orchid Show, which is in May.  But maybe I need to reconsider the timing...

In terms of hearing back from experts, I have no doubt that Marie Nock is an expert.  Honestly, I don't know who the knowledgeable people are.  I always try to respond to people with respect and courtesy.  I hope I didn't fall short with her (or you, here).  That said, without knowing who has deep knowledge on a subject, it is challenging to reply with the deference one might when knowing their position.  Again, in that regard I hope I did not offend.  However, I am not yet convinced I am "chasing a figment".  I've linked a pdf of a company selling a clone "California", and there is a 'Super California' much as there is a 'Super Petra' to the original 'Petra'.  I suppose if I knew which body registered cultivars of crotons we could determine if there is a registered cultivar 'California' or not.  But, perhaps the most salient point is that the one being sold as "California", I like.  A lot.

 

Hi Anna FL - Thank you for your encouraging reply!  You and WayKoolPlantz are probably right.  I will need to head down to FL if I really want to track down clones.  In terms of shipping potted plants, I'd pay.  And I don't need to get something blemish free.  I'd even be happy with a set of properly packed soft-wood cuttings.  I can root those.  But, it does seem uniquely challenging to get croton cultivars.  It shouldn't, but the challenge only adds to my determination.  I wonder if I could get someone to by a plant or plants for me at this sale and ship them.  A broker of sorts.  Hmm...  You've got me thinking.

 

Hello Ryan - Thanks for replying!  I believe you work with Mr. Searle, if I understand correctly from your online presence.  It is quite a list he has there!  Even includes a clone I want.  Perhaps the one I want most.  Makes it all the more frustrating he won't ship.  And that clone all the most tantalizing!  Also, you are spot on.  What is with all the "Croton" watch stuff in searches!  Never new that existed, and now eBay is suggesting piles of watches for me.  Ugh, algorithms! 

[Jeff Searle]

Hi, I'm sorry that yes I do not ship plants. Maybe someday when I retire and have to get more creative on making income I will.  Lol. But unless you can find someone with these varieties AND wiling to ship them to you, it sounds like your only other option would be is to make a road trip down here. Which might not be a bad thing and could be lots of fun. We have some real good nurseries and private collectors down here in south Florida.  Marie and I have very extensive collections of crotons to offer that have taken us many years to accumulate.

As Mike mentioned, on April 6th we will be having a wonderful croton garden tour at Mike's house. A beautiful setting, nice people, food and a chance to go home with some of the prettiest crotons you'll see anywhere. Were the croton capital of the world her in south Florida. Good luck and I hope you eventually find what your looking for.

Jeff

[Apoplast]

Hello Jeff,

Thanks for your reply!  Really, I should be saying thanks again, as you very quickly and kindly replied to my previous message sent to you directly inquiring about shipping.  Certainly no need to apologize for not shipping.  Some places do, some don't.  I'd never fault folks either way for doing what works best for them.

I think everyone here is probably correct, that a trip is in order.  As I mentioned I do have a trip to the area in the works.  And currently I am doing my best to see if it makes sense to try to align it with the April 6th event.  If not, I'll have to try to contact a few folks and see if they'll let me darken their doorways anyhow.  I recognize there are quite a few amazing growers there with wonderful collections, and even more impressive knowledge.  It would be rewarding to have the chance to connect with them for sure.  I'll have to pester a few folks once I know when I'll be there.

 

Thanks again, everyone!