Most heat sensitive palms

[DoomsDave]

Some palms need their heat like Copernicias. Others die with too much. Examples I’ve had experience with include Rhopalistylus sapida, Dypsis coursii and ambositrae, though ambositrae seem better able to take s bit of heat with some protection.

I don’t mean freakishly hot days like July 6, 2018, just routine hot weather, 95 F and above.

Any thoughts?

[Josue Diaz]

I can attest to ambo's dislike of sun and heat in an interior climate (by hot I mean weeks of 100+ degree days with lows in the 80s). I thought that since they grew in exposed, rocky conditions in habitat, that they'd be able to take our heat. I was wrong. A beautiful multi-trunked specimen I had made it through our winter only to die in our sweltering heat. 

I'd add all Ceroxylon to that list. And I'm still learning how Parajubaea do. It seems best to mulch the root zone heavily to keep the root zone cool. 

[JubaeaMan138]

I’ve heard this about parajubaea not liking extreme hot. Same with jubaea . I got some parajubaea from Dave that are doing great and did great through extreme heat full sun as well . I’ve heard with parajubaea key is not a lot of watering during those extreme heat waves . Ceroxylon don’t like heat I hear as well still going to try some here. Bought a nice ceroxylon parv and ceroxylon quindiuense recently we shall see .

[Josue Diaz]

Ceroxylon amazonicum died in the first month of heat in Fresno. Jubaea doesn't seem to mind heat. There are 3 hundred-year-old specimens in Fresno so they certainly don't mind months-long heat spells. 

For what it's worth, I grew Oraniopsis appendiculata in shade in Fresno - it's in the same Ceroxyleae tribe as the genus Ceroxylon . It didn't seem to mind the heat as long as it was well watered. I found it a home in frigid San Francisco though, for it to have a shot at a long life. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Josue Diaz

[PalmatierMeg]

High heat, rain & humidity no-grows in SWFL:

Brahea

Ceroxylon

High altitude Chamaedoreas

Dictyocaryum

Hedyscepe

Geonoma

Jubaea

Jubaeopsis

Lepidorrhachis

Loxococcus

Oraniopsis

Parajubaea

Rhopalostylis

[Josue Diaz]

 

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

High heat, rain & humidity no-grows in SWFL:

Brahea

Ceroxylon

High altitude Chamaedoreas

Dictyocaryum

Geonoma

Jubaea

Jubaeopsis

Lepidorrhachis

Oraniopsis

Parajubaea

Rhopalostylis

I wonder if Brahea salvadorensis would like SW Florida? Palmpedia lists is as growing in dry rocky slopes, and in pine-oak forest regions which are at the extreme north end of the country at 800 m above sea level and above, but the Salvadoran Ministry of Natural Resources (MARN) has it listed as a wetland/mangrove species growing in Barra de Santiago and other mangrove ecosystems along the Pacific coast. I've been to an area of El Salvador near this place and it is a very, very hot and humid place. 

 

 

"The system of wetlands Barra de Santiago...includes a coastal-maritime zone of open sea 26 km long... and an ecosystem of mangroves, succesions of marshland vegetation, flooded forests, seasonal & perennial creeks, and lagoons. It includes two units in the National Network of Protected Spaces: Barra de Santiago and Ranta Rita - Zanjon del Chino, as well as three archaeological sites or Mayan-pipil origin..." 

"CRITERIA 1: The mangrove Barra de Santiago is a representative example of the mangroves of the dry Northern Pacific region of Central America. Similarly, the swamp of palms (Brahea salvadorensis) adjacent to the aquatic channel (Zanjon del Chino) represents a particular ecosystem of the ecoregion called "tropical-dry forests of Mesoamerica.""

"CRITERIA 2: This wetland sustains species that are vulnerable and endangered, as well as ecological communities that are threatened. Anex 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 16, and 17 list all species present in the wetland, as well as those that are characterized within each category of threats under UICN's red list. Listed also are species threatened for their inadequate commercialization and which are included within the scope of CITES, as well as species listed under [the Salvadoran National listing of Endangered Species]."

"FLORA: There exist ecosystems of mangrove (Rhizophora mangle, Rhizophora racemosa) and palm groves, dominated by Brahea salvadorensis, that are critically threatened at a national level..."

Here is the link to the report if you'd like to read more: 

http://www.marn.gob.sv/descargas/Menu/Temas/Biodiversidad/AreasNaturalesProtegidas/Humedales/Complejo Barra de Santiago.pdf

 

This second report lists brahea salvadorensis as the dominant species growing at 10 to 25 meters above sea level in Bosque de Esquintla, a seasonally flooded mangrove forests. Also described as growing in habitat with bactris subglobosa. They're both described as "ombrophole, riparian vegetation."

http://www.marn.gob.sv/descargas/Menu/Temas/Biodiversidad/AreasNaturalesProtegidas/Humedales/Complejo%20Jaltepeque.pdf

 

Josh Allen says he's seen B. salvadorensis at La Libertad which is also a coastal mangrove region. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Josue Diaz

[Alberto]

I grow lots of Brahea species, Ceroxylon alpinum ,high altitude Chamaedoreas, Hedyscepe, lots of Geonoma, Jubaea, Jubaeopsis, Parajubaea tor tor and P. sunkha, Rhopalostylis , but the only one that died were 3 Juania australis, that in my eyes is the most ''warm weather'' (not hot) sensitive palm in the world.

[UK_Palms]

In my climate, Phoenix Canariensis does not do well in extreme heat. I don't know whether it is because it has adapted to my cooler climate, but whenever the temperature goes above 90F here the fronds start browning off and dying back and growth grinds to a halt. Even with supplemental watering it still kicks up a fuss. It seems to much prefer temperatures in the 70s. Its a similar case with my Theophrasti as well.

Trachycarpus Fortunei is arguably the hardiest palm in the world, having survived temps down to -15F in Bulgaria, but even they don't have any issues with 90F+ temps here, and keep growing fine. I don't have any issues with the fronds browning off or dying back on Trachy's, during heatwaves. It's only on the Phoenix's. It's got to be due to them adapting to the cooler year-round temps in my climate, and being accustomed to that cooler weather, which catches them by surprise, because I know CIDP grows fine in southern California and parts of Australia that see 110F in the summer.

Two back to back days of 98F actually killed off several Canariensis and Dactylifera seedlings last summer. Like they just stopped growing, browned off and died. I can't even explain it because that shouldn't be happening. The same thing happened to a CIDP in a neighbours garden during the heatwave of 06, it grew fine during winter and spring, then come late summer it just stopped growing, went brown and died back. It's like they're not accustomed to the extreme heat here, when the heat does finally arrive. On the south coast, where it is cooler in summer, CIDP don't seem to have this issue.

I'm still trying to get my head around it, because it doesn't really make sense. My biggest CIDP was having these issues during a 95F+ heatwave last July, with it browning off and growth stopping completely almost. I started protecting it with shade cloth and it recovered a bit, but it didn't start growing properly until cooler, wetter weather arrived in August. My Trachy's growing under the same conditions had no problems whatsoever. So it doesn't even make sense. Canariensis & Theophrasti appear to be quite heat sensitive in my climate for some reason.

Has anyone in the PNW noticed this? I know they have a similar climate to me...

[PalmatierMeg]

Missed Juania - that one's difficult most everywhere.

Phoenix canariensis is a desert palm, wants very, very dry conditions. It does poorly in hot, humid climates like FL. It doesn't like humidity - period. Poor choice in any humid climate. P. sylvestris is a superior Phoenix in so many ways.

My experience with torturing a Brahea dulcis is that all Braheas eventually succumb to a humid climate.

[Daryl]

Verschafelltia splendida doesn't like heat...I had a few healthy ones at the old place that sailed through several winters without issue...they died  almost immediately after two days of 42C heat....just wilted and then died.

[Merlyn]

Some people have had luck with Brahea Armata and Clara in FL and Corpus Christi, TX.  I'm hoping the Franken Brahea will live here.   

Phoenix Dactylifera grows in FL, but never particularly looks healthy, at least in the Orlando area.  I see them randomly die all the time around here, and they usually carry about half the normal number of fronds, the fronds seem to die off earlier than they should.  Phoenix Canariensis grow fine around here, as long as they are fertilized properly, I see a lot of potassium/magnesium deficiencies.  They get graphiola leaf spot and can get winter fungus if they don't get enough sun.  Otherwise they grow well and fairly quickly, at least in central FL.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Nobody mentioned the Geonoma genus yet. Some, if not most, of the species need a cooler climate. I'm trying a few in my yard. So far, so good. 

[PalmatierMeg]

On my list. None grow in FL to my knowledge.

[Tracy]

On 2/1/2019 at 8:25 AM, DoomsDave said:

I don’t mean freakishly hot days like July 6, 2018, just routine hot weather, 95 F and above.

95f would be freakishly hot in my yard, but that's a digression.  Its interesting to note that some of the palms identified in the strings above aren't necessarily intolerant of extreme heat exclusively, but intolerant of heat with lack of humidity or in other cases too much humidity (most of the Braheas except maybe the B. salvadorensis which Josue identified above).  I'm pretty sure that many New Caledonia species will handle 95 with some moisture in the air, but "95+ with dry and they will fry".  So Dave if I'm understanding the question, its more about which palms can't take 95+ in neither dry nor humid conditions.  Right?

[ruskinPalms]

Very interesting topic. Canary date palms seem to do ok in central and southwest FL. In fact, I planted a very small one in my parents yard in South Venice, FL in 1997 when I was but a teenager that has grown pretty good despite my father’s tendency to way over prune it... but it has indeed been slooooowww. It really doesn’t get much above 92F or 93F there on any given summer day before the sea breeze kicks in and brings the temp down. Even here in Parrish, FL it doesn’t get much more than 93F or 94F before the sea breeze kicks in. I don’t think I’ve ever seen much more than 95F here. 100F is (mostly?) unheard of near the coasts in FL. I’ve never seen it anyway. 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, ruskinPalms said:

Very interesting topic. Canary date palms seem to do ok in central and southwest FL. In fact, I planted a very small one in my parents yard in South Venice, FL in 1997 when I was but a teenager that has grown pretty good despite my father’s tendency to way over prune it... but it has indeed been slooooowww. It really doesn’t get much above 92F or 93F there on any given summer day before the sea breeze kicks in and brings the temp down. Even here in Parrish, FL it doesn’t get much more than 93F or 94F before the sea breeze kicks in. I don’t think I’ve ever seen much more than 95F here. 100F is (mostly?) unheard of near the coasts in FL. I’ve never seen it anyway. 

Would agree w/ you.  For the most part, experienced the same effect from the  sea breeze in where i'd lived in Bradenton. 

As for Canary Dates in FL, we had 2 growing wild in the green space between our back yard and the town homes behind us in Bradenton. Not sure where they'd came from since there weren't any older specimens nearby, but both seemed to hold their own, and look ok. I'm sure they'll eventually get removed since the taller fronds on the bigger of the 2 were flirting with power lines above when i left the area. Then again, the power company never cleaned away the Pepper Tree and Air potato tangle that would cause the lines to arc during bigger summer storms, despite repeated calls.  Recall seeing other specimens around town as well.

[kinzyjr]

@ruskinPalms

We had a lot of really nice phoenix dactylifera and phoenix canariensis in Lakeland before the TPPD and fusarium outbreak.  The issue has been exacerbated by landscaping companies that will cut live tissue on obviously diseased palms and then do the same to a healthy palm.  

Dactylifera, theophrasti and canariensis do get graphiola leaf spot, but are otherwise very healthy.  The date palms lining US-98 and South Florida Avenue were part of the reason I chose to live here.  One of my neighbors has a pretty nice CIDP in his front yard that sets seed every year.  The date palms lining my drive way are still healthy. 

I've watched it clear 100F with very high humidity in the summer a few times since I've lived here and it doesn't seem to bother them.  In particular, July of 2010 was a relatively recent month where the heat was cranked up.  My date palms were just seedlings in the ground back then and are still around today.  I got the stats below for July 2010from Weather Underground:

[DoomsDave]

I think Calytronoma and Geonoma don't like high heat, either.

[PalmatierMeg]

13 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

I think Calytronoma and Geonoma don't like high heat, either.

Dave, I saw native Calyptronoma plumeriana in Cuba in 2014 and planted a young one on my garden lot. It is now 4-5' tall and growing slowly but well in full sun. It came through all the destruction from Hurricane Irma in 2017 with no damage. Calyptronoma rivalis is native to Puerto Rico and probably has similar heat hardiness. I suspect what they do hate is a hot, arid climate.

You are spot on with Geonoma - they require cool nights for heat relief but don't get those here during our sweltering summers. So unfortunate as they are lovely small palms.

[Jon T]

As Alberto mentioned, Juania australis cannot endure hot weather, which explains why most successful examples outside Robinson Crusoe Island are in similarly mild places, such as coastal Ireland, the UK, and the San Francisco Bay. They need temps not much above 70F/20c for a high and 54F/12c for a low. I have foolishly (and expensively) killed 5 here in a warm-summer part of California; though they all survived the 9a winter lows, they could not handle the frequent 90+ summer days.

I think maybe UK Palms' problem with Canaries is more likely the combo of cool temps and summer watering. Both Canaries and theophrasti are from very hot truly summer-dry Mediterranean climates. Once they are established, I would withhold most summer watering. Dactylifera and theophrasti are more summer water-tolerant (than Canariensis), since the former are often irrigated or riparian in their hot native climates.

I think the graphiola, etc., problems in Florida could be ameliorated in places with sea breezes, which would tend to helpfully dry the leaves which get frequent unaccustomed overhead summer watering (AKA "rain") in non-Mediterranean climates.

JT

 

[Missi]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:49 PM, Daryl said:

Verschafelltia splendida doesn't like heat...I had a few healthy ones at the old place that sailed through several winters without issue...they died  almost immediately after two days of 42C heat....just wilted and then died.

Verschaffeltia splendida love heat as long as it's coupled with humidity.

[NC_Palms]

I’ve noticed that Trachcarpus fortunei isn’t too fond of the heat. Despite being pretty hardy, it is better suited for the Pacific Northwest and Switzerland than for the coastal Southeast. Of course unless in the shade. 

[Daryl]

17 hours ago, Missi said:

Verschaffeltia splendida love heat as long as it's coupled with humidity.

To a degree....LOL

[UK_Palms]

13 hours ago, NC_Palms said:

I’ve noticed that Trachcarpus fortunei isn’t too fond of the heat. Despite being pretty hardy, it is better suited for the Pacific Northwest and Switzerland than for the coastal Southeast. Of course unless in the shade. 

My Trachy's have never shown the slightest bit of issue with hot temps here, but then again it never gets over 100F here. They take 95F in their stride and the warmer it is, the quicker they seem to grow.

My Phoenix's and Butia on the other hand, seem to get fussy when the temp goes above 90F. Growth slows down and their fronds start browning off. There's probably other factors at hand, but it's just something I have noticed in my climate. Trachy's seem to take the hot and the cold, without issue.

Other palms seem more sensitive to hot and cold temps.

[empireo22]

13 hours ago, NC_Palms said:

I’ve noticed that Trachcarpus fortunei isn’t too fond of the heat. Despite being pretty hardy, it is better suited for the Pacific Northwest and Switzerland than for the coastal Southeast. Of course unless in the shade. 

seems they handle dry heat better. nc has humid summers and clay soil. and they don't seem to handle that. and on the coast nematodes and humidity take care of them in summer. they seem to grow well in nc in well composted semi shaded areas though. I have seen some nice examples of livistonia chinesis in nc on the coast that make nice substitutes

Portland gets hot but its always dry heat and nights cool off. they have some perfect examples of trachies.

[Missi]

8 hours ago, Daryl said:

To a degree....LOL

Yea, but probably not over 100 degrees