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mppalms

Syagrus quinquefaria

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mppalms

I have read that it is a synonym for S. coronata.  I have also read that it is as hardy as a Queen palm.  I don't think both can be true.  Anyone know?

Jason

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mppalms

FWIW, in the only picture I have seen of an adult, it looks like a queen palm with thinner leaflets and a sparser crown.

Jason

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cfkingfish

Jason-

It is a very "Queen" looking Syagrus, but the traits I have seen of it are the following:

-The trunk has a noticeable flared base

-Shuttlecock crown

-Cold hardiness

Unless you really were to look and study one, you would think "Queen" even standing next to one.

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mppalms

Thanks.  I just noticed the flared base in the photo I found after you mentioned it.  If it's a fast grower, it will meet the requirement, since coronata is *very* slow for me.

Jason

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edbrown_3

To add to what Chris has said,

The description is based upon a plant at Rio BOt Garden. later classified as S. coronata.  Seeds were distributed 20 years ago and those have likely produced seeds and been distributed.  It is likely a  S. coronata hybrid with alot of S romanizoffianum blood in it.

Best regarrds,

Ed

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cfkingfish

Which picture have you seen of this plant?

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Alberto

How cold hardy is a pure S.coronata,since I was thinking to plant a mature palm here?

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Brad-Tampa

This is a S. quinquefaria aquired from Fairchild and planted out in 1967. It is substantially more robust than the Queen and has withstood any freeze since then.

IMGP0691.jpg

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Brad-Tampa

Also, it does have a flared base, I'll get a picture later if anyone wants to see it. Brad

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mppalms

I am certainly interested in seeing other pics of it (including the base).  Does it get as tall as a queen?  Thanks..

Jason

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edbrown_III

Alberto,

I havent seen pure coronata planted too far northe.

One fellow ahs one in Melbourne, theres a plant at Leu I believe ( Eric can comment on this).

I noticed a large one at John Bischocks during the funeral.  It has likely seen the most cold as it was out in 1999 and his place saw the low 20's.

I think the low 20s ( -4 C) is about the limit as near as I can discern.

I speculate that the S. quinquefaria has back crossed with S. romanzoffianum and has its cold hardiness.

Best wishes,

Ed

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Eric in Orlando

Ed, The one we had at Leu Gardens died a couple years ago from ganoderma. It was fast growing and looked just like a Queen Palm except it had a little more slender of a trunk and the leaf bases were more symmetrical, like a S. coronata. It was grown from a seed from that tree in Rio. Dave Witt had donated it, did you or Mike D. collect the seed?

Since S. quinquefaria is an invalid name and a synonym for S. coronata, my guess is that these are probably hybrids since many Syagrus species cross easily.

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Brad-Tampa

Ed and Eric, The Syagrus we have could certainly be a hybrid. Dad's garden notes only say FTG  which could mean either a couple of collected seeds or "distribution", either plant sale or trade. I certainly haven't compared it to the type discriptions, but thank you for the imput. I like to update the garden log when possible and will post more pics of it later.

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Don Little

There is a nice S coronata here at the South Coast Plaza, they can take down to about 25 F from what I have read.

IMG_0684.jpg

close up of the trunk

IMG_0685.jpg

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mppalms

I'm glad I picked one up a year ago; coronata is a nice-looking palm.  And, I can say now from my own experience that they sulk in cooler weather and LOVE hot days.  We just had three days over 95 deg., and it's visibly growing now..

Jason

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edbrown_III

Brad,

Thanks for posting the photo. I am posting a photo of S. coronata flowers.  

GThis is offered so you can compare the differences. Key differences with a queen are size of flowers, arrangement on rachis, number of rachillae etc as well as length.

I am speculating that a hybrid would have intermediate characteristics.

Best regards,

Ed

post-562-1182180134_thumb.jpg

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Brad-Tampa

Ed,

Here are a couple more pictures of the Syagrus sp. we had listed as S. quinquefaria. Thanks for the S. coronata infloresence picture. I'll try to compare it with the specimen, although it has about 20 feet of clear trunk so that would involve a ladder and a clean up while I was up there!

Jason,

The final picture is of a couple S. romanzoffianum of comtempory age to the unknown possible hybrid. The older on has about 50 feet of trunk and has out grown the hybrid specimen by a substantial rate.

Thanks, Brad Young

IMGP1601.jpg

IMGP1602.jpg

IMGP1610.jpg

IMGP1606.jpg

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SubTropicRay

Thanks for the photo Brad.  That palm has done remarkably well throughout the years.

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edbrown_III

Brad and Ray

Much obliged for the photos and commentary. You see the S. coronata in the leaves and ranking ( some what of the leave bases)

One other thing that escaped my memory .. There is a hybrid of S. coronata & S.

romanzoffianum  identified as

S. campsportoana -- This woud be a 50% 50% cross

where there ranges or cultivation intercect in Bahia /Minas Gerais. I will attempt to dig up some photos from one of the monogrph if they exist.

Best regards,

Ed

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merrill

Hi, Brad:

Nice to see you posting!  Do you still have a JubaeaXButia hybrid?  I hope so - should be quite tall now.  Best Wishes, merrill

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Brad-Tampa

Hi Merrill,

My wife and I have been taking care of Mom's garden for the past year or two, trying to maintain a least a little of its past glory. It has changed alot over the years due to past freezes but what is left is a good representation of what can grow in our area.

There are several specimens of the Syagrus/Butia/Jubaea complex remaining in the garden. I located the following pictures this morning and the comments come from the garden log developed by Roy Works with dad when Roy was helping dad with the garden maintenance and propagation.

1. Jubea X Butia sp.

IMGP1249.jpg

2. Jubea chiliensis X Butia sp. F3 or F4

IMGP1259.jpg

3. Butia sp., possible hybrid from Butia nearby and Jubaea X.

IMGP1247.jpg

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Brad-Tampa

4. X Butiagrus nabonnandii

IMGP0702-1.jpg

5. XButyagrus nabonnandii

IMGP1256-1.jpg

6. And I thought you might like to see the Sabal uresana shown on the right. It is noted as coming from you from seed collected from a "Botanic garden in Mexico"

2007-2-25095.jpg

Take care and come visit sometime. Brad

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mppalms

Thanks for the picture, Brad.

So, it looks like S. quinquefaria is hybrid which looks like a slower-growing S. romanzoffianum.  How does it compare in cold hardiness?  It sounds like it is comparable or slightly less so.  

Jason

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edbrown_3

Brad,

Thanks for positng the photos . How is the Jubeopsis  growing ?  There was one with about             5 foot of trunk or so that he had grown that had survived the freezes of   85 etc.

Best regards,

Ed

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merrill

Hi, Brad:

Thank You very much for your response.  U. A. really made some tremendous accomplishments!.  

Best Wishes, merrill

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Brad-Tampa

Ed,

The Jubeopsis isn't as large as you remembered. It's so slow it may take another lifetime to get 5 feet of trunk, but it seems to be healthy and hardy. Here is a pic.

Jason,

The Syagrus I showed survived the heavy freezes of the 70's  through the '85 killer. I can't remember if it was setback but the trunk doesn't show any damaged areas.

Brad

IMGP1237.jpg

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edbrown_III

Brad,  

Much obliged for the photos -- I visited the garden in 85 and 199x

Best wishes,

Ed

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mppalms

Brad,

Thanks for the info and photos.  That Jubaeopsis is amazing.  I have a little guy that should take about 20 years to get to that size.  Looks worth the wait.

Jason

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edbrown_3

Eric,

I didnt see your question about the origen of S. quinquefaria.

Mike and I visited the Rio Botanica in 97 . Mike collected alot of seeds so it was likely the origin. -- I honestly dont remember the tree. There were many Syagrus speceis there as well as in Parque Flameco. I will let Dave opine though if he got it from another source.

On a related note.  I viisted Faith and saw their S. quinquefaria. It has very heavy queen characteristics but some coronata character. They lived around Fairchild so it is probably a hybrid of a hybrid.

Best regards

Ed

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Central Floridave

I'm doing an old photo bump due to I just got this palm, S. quinquefaria, from alias gsn a few days ago and want to see after three years if people's palms are doing good. It looks a lot like a queen as a young palm.

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PalmatierMeg

I received seeds for this palm earlier this year. So far, none has germinated. Has anyone else had any success germinating this "species"?

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M@ximus

Meg, Brad sended me some seeds some years ago!!

I had a nice percentage of germination!

I keep for me 3 seedlings, that I put in the ground the second year!

Was a big mistake!! They all died when temperature drop down -4/5c.

For sure Syagrus Rom. don't have any trouble with such temperature

Best M@x

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PalmatierMeg

Meg, Brad sended me some seeds some years ago!!

I had a nice percentage of germination!

I keep for me 3 seedlings, that I put in the ground the second year!

Was a big mistake!! They all died when temperature drop down -4/5c.

For sure Syagrus Rom. don't have any trouble with such temperature

Best M@x

Thanks, M@x. I don't think those seedlings would have many problems where I live, though we did get down to -2C one night. But I've heard all Syagrus keep their own schedule on when - or if - they germinate.

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Mark Heath

I'm doing an old photo bump due to I just got this palm, S. quinquefaria, from alias gsn a few days ago and want to see after three years if people's palms are doing good. It looks a lot like a queen as a young palm.

I got some one gallon sized from Scott last year as well. The mother palm IMO deffinatly has some Coronata in it. Without close inspection,I think the Coronata traits will not present themselves untill it is trunking.

I crossed last year a Queen w/ SXCostea pollen, the offspring should look real close to the beautifull specimen that Brad has. Tulio and Buccaneers visited here and i gave them some of the above crosses.

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Central Floridave

thanks for the info. I'm planting this thing out in the woods and see if it defends on its own. Of course, like everyone else, I don't like queen palms due to how common they are. But, am interesting to see how this palm looks. Hopefully it can live on its own like a queen can as it is getting planted out on an empty wooded lot. I have queens that volunteer in various places so maybe this one can make it as well.

If anything bumping up this old thread we can enjoy the photos of Dr. Youngs place again...

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Mark Heath

How cold hardy is a pure S.coronata,since I was thinking to plant a mature palm here?

Alberto,

I have 5 specimen S.Coronatas here in East Orlando, zone 9b. Last winter was very harsh and the Coronata was defoliated w/ heavy frost and 22f temps. But as you can see it is coming back strong! This specimen is my pollen donor. I crossed it w/ Queen as the father last year but the seeds were imature when the big arctic blast hit and they froze.

I say go for it if you allready haven't seeing this is an old thread.

post-518-001277600 1285014849_thumb.jpg

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