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Jack.

My Parajubaea & palms UK

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Jack.

Hello from england thought id share some photos of my Parajubaea torallyi & mini jungle garden on this cold cloudy day.

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Edited by Jack.
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Tyrone

You're growing them in the uk. Well done. How do you get your bananas thru winter.

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Jack.
9 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

You're growing them in the uk. Well done. How do you get your bananas thru winter.

I just leave them to elements same with palms

Edited by Jack.

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Tyrone
9 minutes ago, Jack. said:

I just leave them to elements same with palms

What are your coldest winter minimums then. My friend in Devon just texted me this morning with a neg 2.5C at 8.15am. You must be in an awesome area for the. U.K. to be able to grow bananas. I have to protect them here in my southern Australian garden or frost will just wipe them out.

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Jack.
12 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

What are your coldest winter minimums then. My friend in Devon just texted me this morning with a neg 2.5C at 8.15am. You must be in an awesome area for the. U.K. to be able to grow bananas. I have to protect them here in my southern Australian garden or frost will just wipe them out.

I live on south coast so generally mild, Coldest temp so far in my area this winter has been -1C on a few nights but in really cold spells can get to -4C. Overall average winter low here is 4C

Edited by Jack.

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PalmatierMeg

Your Parajubaea looks great. So does the rest of your garden.

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Josue Diaz

excellent plants! thank you for sharing. 

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UK_Palms

Fantastic looking garden! You are about 10 miles from me, but the difference is you are right near the coast I am guessing, whereas I am inland. Bodies of water greatly moderate temperature, in both winter and summer. So you probably don't see any extremes, at either end of the spectrum. When it gets to 35C here, you probably don't get higher than 25C. When it drops to -5C here, you probably don't drop below -1C. Ultimately it is a better climate for palms where you are. I bet you only have a couple of frosts each year.

Stuff like Robusta, Parajubaea and various Phoenix's are a bit of a risk for me. I might be able to get them through 1 or 2 winters fine, but then they will get knocked out in a cold spell. Whereas you don't seem to have any problems at all there in your microclimate. 

Is that a big Washingtonia Filifera I see growing?

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Jack.
16 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Fantastic looking garden! You are about 10 miles from me, but the difference is you are right near the coast I am guessing, whereas I am inland. Bodies of water greatly moderate temperature, in both winter and summer. So you probably don't see any extremes, at either end of the spectrum. When it gets to 35C here, you probably don't get higher than 25C. When it drops to -5C here, you probably don't drop below -1C. Ultimately it is a better climate for palms where you are. I bet you only have a couple of frosts each year.

Stuff like Robusta, Parajubaea and various Phoenix's are a bit of a risk for me. I might be able to get them through 1 or 2 winters fine, but then they will get knocked out in a cold spell. Whereas you don't seem to have any problems at all there in your microclimate. 

Is that a big Washingtonia Filifera I see growing?

Yeah only downside cooler summer temps, was labled washingtonia robusta when i got it so i presume its that type 

Edited by Jack.

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UK_Palms
2 minutes ago, Jack. said:

Yeah only downside cool summer temps, was labled washingtonia robusta whwn i got it so i presume its that type 

Yeah, most probably Robusta then. I couldn't be sure which type it was because it's fronds look like Filifera, but it doesn't have much threads. So it might even be a Filibusta hybrid.

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Tyrone
9 hours ago, Jack. said:

I live on south coast so generally mild, Coldest temp so far in my area this winter has been -1C on a few nights but in really cold spells can get to -4C. Overall average winter low here is 4C

If I ever had to live in the uk, I'd choose your area. That's very mild. I think I've seen a minus 3C here in 2017. A minus 1C is something we may see once or twice here in a normal year, so I've got to be careful where I place anything like bananas in the garden. I average about 7C minimum through winter and 24,25C average max in summer with occasional high 30's to maybe 40C in a hot year. I've tried growing conker trees after seeing them in England and although I've had one flower for the first time this year the first 30C day they crisp up.

Well done with your garden and keep trying new stuff. I think a Chatham Island nikau would be worth a try too.

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UK_Palms
2 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

If I ever had to live in the uk, I'd choose your area. That's very mild. I think I've seen a minus 3C here in 2017. A minus 1C is something we may see once or twice here in a normal year, so I've got to be careful where I place anything like bananas in the garden. I average about 7C minimum through winter and 24,25C average max in summer with occasional high 30's to maybe 40C in a hot year. I've tried growing conker trees after seeing them in England and although I've had one flower for the first time this year the first 30C day they crisp up.

Well done with your garden and keep trying new stuff. I think a Chatham Island nikau would be worth a try too.

 

There's plenty of conker trees and conker seedlings growing around here. I average around 20 days above 30C each year and have never seen any shrivel up. They all withstood 38C in 2003 and 2006. We had lots of days of 35-36C this summer just gone, and it didn't cause any issues for conker seedlings, so that is certainly odd.

There must be another variable at play where you are? 

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sipalms

Do bear in mind that at that latitude, winter sun is substantially weaker than say southern NZ or Australia, in fact I would think going by Solar kW that even summer sun would be as well due less ozone in the southern ocean.

Here in Christchurch, Queen Palms, phoenix, washingtonia filifera / robusta, parajubaea, jubaea chilensis, butia capitata, nikau, and even bangalows/alexandraea can be found growing. It can get down to -5 or more in winter (almost always followed by a sunny day) and averages around 23-25 max in summer with extremes in the mid thirties.)

From my trips to the UK in both summer and winter, it would seem that latitude, sunshine etc must have some effect on growing palms there even though there aren't drastic differences in average temps.

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Tyrone
5 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

There's plenty of conker trees and conker seedlings growing around here. I average around 20 days above 30C each year and have never seen any shrivel up. They all withstood 38C in 2003 and 2006. We had lots of days of 35-36C this summer just gone, and it didn't cause any issues for conker seedlings, so that is certainly odd.

There must be another variable at play where you are? 

It must be a UV thing then. We get UV Indexes around 14, 15 every summer. They probably start burning around 11, 12. I just checked the internet and the south of England only gets up to a UV Index of 8 in the hottest rarest occasions.  Today we are getting an index of 13 and now they look terrible. Maybe if they get a bit of shade from UV tolerant plants they'll do better.

Also 20 days above 30C in summer. I wish I got that. Last summer the warmest day was 33.9C and I think we only went over 30C 4 times. It's been warmer this year but tomorrows forecast 30C (will probably be 33C at my place) will be the first 30 plus day for January. 

You've got a great climate for England with low non plant burning UV as well. You've got to try more stuff in your garden. :)

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UK_Palms
2 hours ago, sipalms said:

Do bear in mind that at that latitude, winter sun is substantially weaker than say southern NZ or Australia, in fact I would think going by Solar kW that even summer sun would be as well due less ozone in the southern ocean.

Here in Christchurch, Queen Palms, phoenix, washingtonia filifera / robusta, parajubaea, jubaea chilensis, butia capitata, nikau, and even bangalows/alexandraea can be found growing. It can get down to -5 or more in winter (almost always followed by a sunny day) and averages around 23-25 max in summer with extremes in the mid thirties.)

From my trips to the UK in both summer and winter, it would seem that latitude, sunshine etc must have some effect on growing palms there even though there aren't drastic differences in average temps.

 

This is very true, well part of it at least. Winter sun is incredibly weak at this time of year, at 50/51N. It almost feels like there is no sun at times, with several days going by with overcast weather, and short days with just 7-8 hours of daylight. At this time of year the angle of the sun is also very low, so it doesn't even hit most of my garden right now, which is very depressing. The coldest nights may only drop down to a relatively modest -3C, but due to the lack of sunlight intensity in winter, it often will not warm up past 5C the next day, unlike parts of the USA for instance, which may see an extreme of -8C overnight and then bounce back to +15C during the day (due to their higher sunlight intensity at lat 35N).

However come February/March, the intensity of the sun and daylight hours begins increasing dramatically. Come June we have a good 18 hours of daylight, with sunrise at 4am and sunset at 9-10pm. Contrary to belief, the sun is also very strong at this time of year, even at 51N. I have been absolutely burnt to a crisp within minutes of being out in the sun in June/July. The western and northern parts of the country can be quite different due to Atlantic influence and higher latitude, with more overcast days, but here in the southeast we get many clear days with strong sunlight. Our summer sun is definitely stronger than the winter sun in Australia, with the exception of maybe the far north around Broome, Darwin, Cairns etc. Even there, our summer sun may be stronger than there winter sun. It's hard to say. 

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UK_Palms
29 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

It must be a UV thing then. We get UV Indexes around 14, 15 every summer. They probably start burning around 11, 12. I just checked the internet and the south of England only gets up to a UV Index of 8 in the hottest rarest occasions.  Today we are getting an index of 13 and now they look terrible. Maybe if they get a bit of shade from UV tolerant plants they'll do better.

Also 20 days above 30C in summer. I wish I got that. Last summer the warmest day was 33.9C and I think we only went over 30C 4 times. It's been warmer this year but tomorrows forecast 30C (will probably be 33C at my place) will be the first 30 plus day for January. 

You've got a great climate for England with low non plant burning UV as well. You've got to try more stuff in your garden. :)

 

Yeah, our UV indexes are obviously not as high as Australia, primarily due to us being at a higher latitude. Also due to our ozone being a bit stronger, although it is rather depleted over the southeast now. Most summer days have a UV index of around 12, but we can easily get up to 14/15 on sunny days in late June. I have been absolutely burnt to a crisp in June/July from being out in the sun for as little as 30 mins. People shouldn't underestimate the intensity of the sun anywhere, come mid summer. 

This summer just gone (2018) was pretty insane. I went 10+ weeks without a single drop of rain here, from mid May - early August. During that time we had prolonged heatwaves and crystal clear sunny skies pretty much every day. The heat was absolutely relentless last summer, and I actually lost several Phoenix Dactylifera seedlings to the heat and drought, which dried up and fried in their pots, from not being watered for just a couple of days. I even had a 3 year old Dactylifera and a CIDP die in the ground from the drought/heatwave, after getting them through their first winter, which was pretty annoying. My lawn also died back completely. 

I have two weather stations in my garden and keep track of my climate data. In 2018, I clocked 47 days above 30C, including 9 days above 35C and two which peaked at 37.1C, including an overnight low of 26C on 18th July, so it was pretty darn hot in my neck of the woods. My total rainfall for the year was 18.4 inches. I happen to live in the hottest, driest part of the country between May - September. The OP won't get anywhere near those sort of temps in the summer, but he will however be more mild than me in the winter and up to 5C warmer than me on my coldest nights. If I had banana plants here, they would be dead now.

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cbmnz
4 hours ago, sipalms said:

Do bear in mind that at that latitude, winter sun is substantially weaker than say southern NZ or Australia, in fact I would think going by Solar kW that even summer sun would be as well due less ozone in the southern ocean.

Here in Christchurch, Queen Palms, phoenix, washingtonia filifera / robusta, parajubaea, jubaea chilensis, butia capitata, nikau, and even bangalows/alexandra can be found growing. It can get down to -5 or more in winter (almost always followed by a sunny day) and averages around 23-25 max in summer with extremes in the mid thirties.)

From my trips to the UK in both summer and winter, it would seem that latitude, sunshine etc must have some effect on growing palms there even though there aren't drastic differences in average temps.

Curious which of those species you meantion can survive on the flat in Chch?  All of them grow here the Waikato basin  where radiation frosts to -4 (but almost never lower) are not uncommon ( or at least used to be, have had 3 milder winters in a row now). Bangalows/alexandraea are right on their edge here through, they get damaged once every few years by the coldest winters but do seem to nearly always survive. 

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Albey
On 1/11/2019, 8:51:49, cbmnz said:

Curious which of those species you meantion can survive on the flat in Chch?  All of them grow here the Waikato basin  where radiation frosts to -4 (but almost never lower) are not uncommon ( or at least used to be, have had 3 milder winters in a row now). Bangalows/alexandraea are right on their edge here through, they get damaged once every few years by the coldest winters but do seem to nearly always survive. 

Hi there cbmnz

All Palms mentioned can be grown on the flat except the Archontophoenix species, which will only grow reliably on the coastline and in the hill suburbs around Christchurch.

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Albey
On 1/11/2019, 7:17:59, UK_Palms said:

 

Yeah, our UV indexes are obviously not as high as Australia, primarily due to us being at a higher latitude. Also due to our ozone being a bit stronger, although it is rather depleted over the southeast now. Most summer days have a UV index of around 12, but we can easily get up to 14/15 on sunny days in late June. I have been absolutely burnt to a crisp in June/July from being out in the sun for as little as 30 mins. People shouldn't underestimate the intensity of the sun anywhere, come mid summer. 

This summer just gone (2018) was pretty insane. I went 10+ weeks without a single drop of rain here, from mid May - early August. During that time we had prolonged heatwaves and crystal clear sunny skies pretty much every day. The heat was absolutely relentless last summer, and I actually lost several Phoenix Dactylifera seedlings to the heat and drought, which dried up and fried in their pots, from not being watered for just a couple of days. I even had a 3 year old Dactylifera and a CIDP die in the ground from the drought/heatwave, after getting them through their first winter, which was pretty annoying. My lawn also died back completely. 

I have two weather stations in my garden and keep track of my climate data. In 2018, I clocked 47 days above 30C, including 9 days above 35C and two which peaked at 37.1C, including an overnight low of 26C on 18th July, so it was pretty darn hot in my neck of the woods. My total rainfall for the year was 18.4 inches. I happen to live in the hottest, driest part of the country between May - September. The OP won't get anywhere near those sort of temps in the summer, but he will however be more mild than me in the winter and up to 5C warmer than me on my coldest nights. If I had banana plants here, they would be dead now.

Hi There

Can you post your Mean max and min temps for all 12-months during 2018 ( Your climate there seems warmer than anywhere i have seen in the U.K )

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UK_Palms
3 hours ago, Albey said:

Hi There

Can you post your Mean max and min temps for all 12-months during 2018 ( Your climate there seems warmer than anywhere i have seen in the U.K )

Here's my average high/low temperatures and rainfall statistics for 2018...

JAN - 8.9C / 4.1C (1.8 inches)

FEB - 5.3C / 1.6C (0.9 inches)

MAR - 8.1C / 3.5C (2.5 inches)

APR - 14.7C / 6.2C (1.7 inches)

MAY - 21.4C / 12.6C (0.8 inches)

JUN - 26.7C / 15.3C (0.0 inches)

JUL - 29.1C / 16.8C (0.1 inches)

AUG - 22.4C / 13.0C (2.2 inches)

SEP - 20.9C / 12.1C (1.8 inches)

OCT - 15.5C / 9.9C (2.1 inches)

NOV - 11.7C / 7.8C (2.4 inches)

DEC - 9.3C / 5.2C (1.8 inches)

 

I am only the warmest place in the UK during the hotter, summer months, from May - September. Coastal areas are much warmer than me in winter, generally speaking, and I can get quite cold overnight lows during the winter months as I am inland, away from the coast. I do however live in the driest part of the country, year-around, evidenced by my pretty low 18.1 inches of rainfall in 2018. That's drier than most Mediterranean regions, where they receive tons of rainfall during cooler half of the year. Generally speaking, my rainfall is very, very light and inconsistent. 

As you can see January was quite mild, but February was below average temps. Also, despite us having a boiling hot June & July, with a 10 week drought, the last month of summer (August) was a total washout with below average temps and above average rainfall. So my climate can be quite variable. It can literally be the polar opposite year on year. Usually August is the hotter, drier month during the summer.

It is pretty darn mild here at the moment. Considering we are right bang in the middle of winter now, yet I have an overnight low forecast tonight of 10C. And a high of 13C tomorrow. Warmer than Madrid, Barcelona, Rome or Athens. Rome actually has a low of 0C forecast tonight. 

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Albey
3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Here's my average high/low temperatures and rainfall statistics for 2018...

JAN - 8.9C / 4.1C (1.8 inches)

FEB - 5.3C / 1.6C (0.9 inches)

MAR - 8.1C / 3.5C (2.5 inches)

APR - 14.7C / 6.2C (1.7 inches)

MAY - 21.4C / 12.6C (0.8 inches)

JUN - 26.7C / 15.3C (0.0 inches)

JUL - 29.1C / 16.8C (0.1 inches)

AUG - 22.4C / 13.0C (2.2 inches)

SEP - 20.9C / 12.1C (1.8 inches)

OCT - 15.5C / 9.9C (2.1 inches)

NOV - 11.7C / 7.8C (2.4 inches)

DEC - 9.3C / 5.2C (1.8 inches)

 

I am only the warmest place in the UK during the hotter, summer months, from May - September. Coastal areas are much warmer than me in winter, generally speaking, and I can get quite cold overnight lows during the winter months as I am inland, away from the coast. I do however live in the driest part of the country, year-around, evidenced by my pretty low 18.1 inches of rainfall in 2018. That's drier than most Mediterranean regions, where they receive tons of rainfall during cooler half of the year. Generally speaking, my rainfall is very, very light and inconsistent. 

As you can see January was quite mild, but February was below average temps. Also, despite us having a boiling hot June & July, with a 10 week drought, the last month of summer (August) was a total washout with below average temps and above average rainfall. So my climate can be quite variable. It can literally be the polar opposite year on year. Usually August is the hotter, drier month during the summer.

It is pretty darn mild here at the moment. Considering we are right bang in the middle of winter now, yet I have an overnight low forecast tonight of 10C. And a high of 13C tomorrow. Warmer than Madrid, Barcelona, Rome or Athens. Rome actually has a low of 0C forecast tonight. 

WOW - Your Summer months are warmer than anywhere in New Zealand and your average Maximum for July is the same as the Gold coast in Queensland Australia ?

Just out of curiosity can we see pictures of where your Weather stations are positioned ?

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UK_Palms
38 minutes ago, Albey said:

WOW - Your Summer months are warmer than anywhere in New Zealand and your average Maximum for July is the same as the Gold coast in Queensland Australia ?

Just out of curiosity can we see pictures of where your Weather stations are positioned ?

Just to make it clear - June & July in 2018 were much hotter than average, with a prolonged heatwave and drought. It's not usually that warm. 

My average high for June is usually 22C, my July high is usually 24C and August usually averages 23C. So August 2018 was actually colder than average by 1C. 

I will try to get some pics up tomorrow of the weather station and sensor locations, as it is pitch black dark right now here. But just to be clear, all my temperatures are recorded in the shade, about 5 feet off the ground. So I know they are accurate. I actually recorded 41C in July 2006 during a heatwave, although it isn't officially recognised. I know it was accurate though. Most years we see 36/37C at least once here. My village actually has several vineyards. 

And if you thought my average high was pretty hot in June & July 2018, you'd be surprised to hear that London had an average high of 34C in July 1976. That's 5C higher than my average high of 29C in July 2018. 

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Albey
1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Just to make it clear - June & July in 2018 were much hotter than average, with a prolonged heatwave and drought. It's not usually that warm. 

My average high for June is usually 22C, my July high is usually 24C and August usually averages 23C. So August 2018 was actually colder than average by 1C. 

I will try to get some pics up tomorrow of the weather station and sensor locations, as it is pitch black dark right now here. But just to be clear, all my temperatures are recorded in the shade, about 5 feet off the ground. So I know they are accurate. I actually recorded 41C in July 2006 during a heatwave, although it isn't officially recognised. I know it was accurate though. Most years we see 36/37C at least once here. My village actually has several vineyards. 

And if you thought my average high was pretty hot in June & July 2018, you'd be surprised to hear that London had an average high of 34C in July 1976. That's 5C higher than my average high of 29C in July 2018. 

That makes sense.

You had a great 2018 Summer that would have seen good Palm growth. That 34°c average max for London is incredibly hot - What a heatwave!

We don't get anything like that here. We get warmer than normal / normal or colder than normal weather - but not heatwaves. For instance a warmer than normal summer would be like 2°c warmer than a normal Summer.

A hot January here would be 25°c and a cold one would be 22°c

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cbmnz
On 12/01/2019, 22:35:47, Albey said:

Hi there cbmnz

All Palms mentioned can be grown on the flat except the Archontophoenix species, which will only grow reliably on the coastline and in the hill suburbs around Christchurch.

On 12/01/2019, 22:35:47, Albey said:

Hi there cbmnz

All Palms mentioned can be grown on the flat except the Archontophoenix species, which will only grow reliably on the coastline and in the hill suburbs around Christchurch.

Hi, thanks for that. Thought queen palms should be ok on the flat there. Pushed at times but ok. However, don't remember seeing any on my many visits there. Just plenty of phoenix canariensis . Sometimes I think a cultural thing develops, a few main suppliers don't know if a species is safe in an area so they don't supply. So hardly any are seen around the area. So people don't see any of that palm species growing their area , and can't see it for sale locally, therefore conclude  it would have no chance, when that may not be the case.

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Albey
3 minutes ago, cbmnz said:

Hi, thanks for that. Thought queen palms should be ok on the flat there. Pushed at times but ok. However, don't remember seeing any on my many visits there. Just plenty of phoenix canariensis . Sometimes I think a cultural thing develops, a few main suppliers don't know if a species is safe in an area so they don't supply. So hardly any are seen around the area. So people don't see any of that palm species growing their area , and can't see it for sale locally, therefore conclude  it would have no chance, when that may not be the case.

Hi cbmnz

What you said is exactly right - Suppliers don't supply them, and if you don't see them around, the general consensus is: You can't grow them.

I know where a few Queens are growing around Christchurch, including my own one. Parajubaea torallyi is an easy grow as well as Washingtonia robusta.

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Tyrone
15 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Just to make it clear - June & July in 2018 were much hotter than average, with a prolonged heatwave and drought. It's not usually that warm. 

My average high for June is usually 22C, my July high is usually 24C and August usually averages 23C. So August 2018 was actually colder than average by 1C. 

I will try to get some pics up tomorrow of the weather station and sensor locations, as it is pitch black dark right now here. But just to be clear, all my temperatures are recorded in the shade, about 5 feet off the ground. So I know they are accurate. I actually recorded 41C in July 2006 during a heatwave, although it isn't officially recognised. I know it was accurate though. Most years we see 36/37C at least once here. My village actually has several vineyards. 

And if you thought my average high was pretty hot in June & July 2018, you'd be surprised to hear that London had an average high of 34C in July 1976. That's 5C higher than my average high of 29C in July 2018. 

I'm amazed how warm you get there. I live in a vineyard area too and have planted a heap of Shiraz (Syrah) vines and they're going crazy but I would say that at least your 2018 summer was hotter than any for me at 35S on the southern coast of WA. I've lived here for 5 years now and have monitored every day temps for almost as long and I've yet to record anything as warm as a 20C minimum. I think the warmest was a 19.6C. My winter temps are way milder than yours but you'd expect that at my latitude. Rainfall can be anywhere from 700-1200mm and highly variable. Amazed at your climate in the uk. You should experiment with more species and blow everyone's minds.

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UK_Palms
6 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

I'm amazed how warm you get there. I live in a vineyard area too and have planted a heap of Shiraz (Syrah) vines and they're going crazy but I would say that at least your 2018 summer was hotter than any for me at 35S on the southern coast of WA. I've lived here for 5 years now and have monitored every day temps for almost as long and I've yet to record anything as warm as a 20C minimum. I think the warmest was a 19.6C. My winter temps are way milder than yours but you'd expect that at my latitude. Rainfall can be anywhere from 700-1200mm and highly variable. Amazed at your climate in the uk. You should experiment with more species and blow everyone's minds.

I actually have citrus plants outside right now, that are in flower! The olives are actually continuing to grow more branches and leaves at present, and I even have a pepper plant hanging on still. It still has its leaves and peppers. And thats in January at 51N latitude! 

We're in the middle of winter, statistically our coldest point of the year right now, yet I had a low of 10C last night and it is currently 14C right now. The sun is beaming down as well today, for once and the wind feels warm. It's more like spring than the middle of winter!

I'll put some pictures up later. I have been out in the garden today doing some work, in a t-shirt haha. I have quite a few exotics growing outdoors here. Stuff that will certainly surprise you.  

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