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veeman55

Coconut Palm Experiment in Southern Italy

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veeman55

My freind is trying to grow a Coconut tree in his southern italian location. 

He bought the sprouted seed from the local Lidl.

He planted it since the beginning of August 2018 and miraculously Its still alive and well.

He recently built a plastic canopy around it to protect it from cooler winter weather. He is located in one of the very very few frost free zones in europe where papayas mangos plumerias ficus lyratas canistel pitayas cavendish bananas flourish hardily without any protection

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Zeeth

What city in Italy?

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PalmatierMeg

I believe we discussed this coconut last summer. Glad to see he's protecting it. Tell him not to let all that plastic come in contact with the palm. Plastic can actually conduct cold and frost damage to any part of the plant it touches. He should also watch for damage if the palm receives full sun as the sun moves north. You don't want to cook it to death inside that enclosure. If I expect cold below about 5C I wrap my coconut seedlings in blankets at night, remove blankets when the sun rises.

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veeman55

It survived so far thats why i made a separate post of it

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veeman55
31 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I believe we discussed this coconut last summer. Glad to see he's protecting it. Tell him not to let all that plastic come in contact with the palm. Plastic can actually conduct cold and frost damage to any part of the plant it touches. He should also watch for damage if the palm receives full sun as the sun moves north. You don't want to cook it to death inside that enclosure. If I expect cold below about 5C I wrap my coconut seedlings in blankets at night, remove blankets when the sun rises.

Thanks will inform

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veeman55
1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

What city in Italy?

Southern CalabriCalabCalabriC

1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

What city in Italy?

sI privacypri

1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

 

57 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

 

The first picture is the latest Dec 30

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RedRabbit

I think it is a worthwhile experiment. It is conceivable a coconut palm could survive in a few extremely favorable microclimates in Europe. I was just in Malaga and the climate there seems more favorable than SoCal. If that coconut in Newport managed to survive it is plausible one could survive in Malaga too. I think Sicily and Malta would also be good contenders. Granted, it would be a long-shot that probably ends in disappointment, but if I lived in the southern Mediterranean I'd give it try!

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veeman55

They have tried in costa del sol  and malaga area. They last few years but then dont make it.

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GottmitAlex

The island of Lampedusa would have the most viable chance in Italy. But still, as any place in Italy, the coconuts would need help (protection) for the first 3-4 years.

 

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veeman55
38 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

The island of Lampedusa would have the most viable chance in Italy. But still, as any place in Italy, the coconuts would need help (protection) for the first 3-4 years.

 

Actually this special area is as mild and warm as lampedusa with more protection due to mountain formations behind it and mountains and sea in front of it..its kind of an anomaly he and i discovered it by mistake from looking at maps and observing the zone in person.

He confirmed my suspicions by visiting often and observing the temperatures he has access too.

The night temps and highs in this zone are equal or better than lampedusa and paphos on many occassions. Paphos gets much cooler at night than lampedusa and there. But lampedusas downfall is like malta, its exposed  to high winds and terrible winter storms.

The area to the south of it is green and the area to the north is green while in this particular zone is drier like a rainshadow.

The Octopus tree flowers twice and Mango tree even flowers in winter in this area.

 

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GottmitAlex
22 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

Actually this special area is as mild and warm as lampedusa with more protection due to mountain formations behind it and mountains and sea in front of it..its kind of an anomaly he and i discovered it by mistake from looking at maps and observing the zone in person.

He confirmed my suspicions by visiting often and observing the temperatures he has access too.

The night temps and highs in this zone are equal or better than lampedusa and paphos on many occassions. Paphos gets much cooler at night than lampedusa and there. But lampedusas downfall is like malta, its exposed  to high winds and terrible winter storms.

The area to the south of it is green and the area to the north is green while in this particular zone is drier like a rainshadow.

The Octopus tree flowers twice and Mango tree even flowers in winter in this area.

 

That is great to hear. I forget where this place is. 

Here again, latitude does not help matters in this case. Bu here again, with protection, where there is a will, there is a way.

In the unfortunate case your friends' tall coco does not make it, he can always try a true dwarf coconut (I.e. Fiji Dwarf). That can be protected for a long time and will probably fruit during that time.

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maesy

I brought a sprouted coconut from the Philippines 10 years ago that has been growing for 5 years now in a tropical greenhouse here in central Switzerland.

Its a place where they grow lots of tropical fruits and other stuff and its open for public. Unfortunately the place is going to be closed in the end of june 2019 becouse the energie source for heating can not deliver their waste heat anymore.

And therefore the future of my coconut is very uncertain.

I belive its some kind of dwarf variety.

The pictures are not so good, but here it is.

Sua coconut 1.jpg

Sua coconut 3.jpg

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Alicante

It's what some of us said months ago... it will need winter protection, for sure. Under treehouses, coconuts do grow (& are exported to IKEAs and LIDLs) in the Netherlands. As others said above, the closest we all heard was a coconut living some years in the Costa del Sol but it died.

There is no simple way of growing a coconut without protection in continental Europe. We'll wait for global warming, maybe wait for 2100. :lol:

Btw, I recommend you to protect it quite more. This is the upcoming weather in Reggio di Calabria:

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Also with Fahrenheit for US users:

YnDastR.png

You can have it inside for 4-5 months and then leave it outside for 7-8 months in a pot. Protect it, too many days with highs around 10ºC... that will kill it fast.

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Alicante
16 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I think it is a worthwhile experiment. It is conceivable a coconut palm could survive in a few extremely favorable microclimates in Europe. I was just in Malaga and the climate there seems more favorable than SoCal. If that coconut in Newport managed to survive it is plausible one could survive in Malaga too. I think Sicily and Malta would also be good contenders. Granted, it would be a long-shot that probably ends in disappointment, but if I lived in the southern Mediterranean I'd give it try!

Probably in the southern Mediterranean they can do it. In places like Alexandria, Egypt. Or places like Tel Aviv (where Lior Gal grows a few) and surely also in northern Libya. Or even sheltered spots in coastal Cyprus. I think that southern Cyprus is slightly warmer than southern Europe, since it's at a lower latitude too, and the SSTs are warmer there. Stelios is growing one in southern Cyprus, but I don't know if he used some kind winter protection. I will mention him.  @Stelios

But when it comes to continental Europe, it's still not possible without some kind of protection or extra heating at least during Dec-Feb. Someone had coconuts in Málaga without protection (that zone has the warmest winter high averages in continental Europe) but during their 3rd winter they died. Many of us have heard the story of a coconut in Almuñecar, Costa del Sol, repeated in this forum during many times, but it also died after some winters. Give a Coconut too many days with highs under 18ºC and it's gone. With some winter protection they can do it in the warmest continental European climates but I feel like it's a bit of cheating. :P

As we have seen in the inland areas of Southern Cali, they prefer 21-22ºC winter highs and chilly lows rather than mild highs and lows. They love heat.

9 hours ago, veeman55 said:

Actually this special area is as mild and warm as lampedusa with more protection due to mountain formations behind it and mountains and sea in front of it..its kind of an anomaly he and i discovered it by mistake from looking at maps and observing the zone in person.

He confirmed my suspicions by visiting often and observing the temperatures he has access too.

The night temps and highs in this zone are equal or better than lampedusa and paphos on many occassions. Paphos gets much cooler at night than lampedusa and there. But lampedusas downfall is like malta, its exposed  to high winds and terrible winter storms.

The area to the south of it is green and the area to the north is green while in this particular zone is drier like a rainshadow.

The Octopus tree flowers twice and Mango tree even flowers in winter in this area.

 

Can you provide sources/proofs? And there is no way somewhere in southern Italy can have warmer lows than Malta. Malta is frost-less, Calabria is not.

This week will be rainy in Reggio, some days with highs of 7/8ºC and lows of 3/4ºC. I have never seen that in coastal Malta, nor in Gozo, honestly.

About the mangoes, they also grow in many parts of southern Europe. Such as southern and eastern Iberia (& coastal Portugal up to Lisbon), Malta, southern Greece, most Greek islands, Cyprus... also in the Balearic Islands, and probably in Corsica and Sardinia too. As well as in Sicily. There is a mango tree thriving in Monaco, which is at almost 44ºN in southern France. In southern Spain, many mangos for international export grow inland placed on hills, such as Velez-Málaga.

Edited by Alicante
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pietropuccio

I agree fully with Alicante.

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sandgroper

Mangoes, bananas etc....all grow easily in Mediterranean climates compared to coconuts, they're much more challenging.  I can grow all of these plants no problem but I have to provide my coconut palm with a fair amount of protection over our relatively short mild winter.

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NC_Palms

Wow, good luck with those Coconuts. :greenthumb:

I have family in Calabrese mountains but only Trachycarpus at those elevations

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veeman55
11 hours ago, Alicante said:

Probably in the southern Mediterranean they can do it. In places like Alexandria, Egypt. Or places like Tel Aviv (where Lior Gal grows a few) and surely also in northern Libya. Or even sheltered spots in coastal Cyprus. I think that southern Cyprus is slightly warmer than southern Europe, since it's at a lower latitude too, and the SSTs are warmer there. Stelios is growing one in southern Cyprus, but I don't know if he used some kind winter protection. I will mention him.  @Stelios

But when it comes to continental Europe, it's still not possible without some kind of protection or extra heating at least during Dec-Feb. Someone had coconuts in Málaga without protection (that zone has the warmest winter high averages in continental Europe) but during their 3rd winter they died. Many of us have heard the story of a coconut in Almuñecar, Costa del Sol, repeated in this forum during many times, but it also died after some winters. Give a Coconut too many days with highs under 18ºC and it's gone. With some winter protection they can do it in the warmest continental European climates but I feel like it's a bit of cheating. :P

As we have seen in the inland areas of Southern Cali, they prefer 21-22ºC winter highs and chilly lows rather than mild highs and lows. They love heat.

Can you provide sources/proofs? And there is no way somewhere in southern Italy can have warmer lows than Malta. Malta is frost-less, Calabria is not.

This week will be rainy in Reggio, some days with highs of 7/8ºC and lows of 3/4ºC. I have never seen that in coastal Malta, nor in Gozo, honestly.

About the mangoes, they also grow in many parts of southern Europe. Such as southern and eastern Iberia (& coastal Portugal up to Lisbon), Malta, southern Greece, most Greek islands, Cyprus... also in the Balearic Islands, and probably in Corsica and Sardinia too. As well as in Sicily. There is a mango tree thriving in Monaco, which is at almost 44ºN in southern France. In southern Spain, many mangos for international export grow inland placed on hills, such as Velez-Málaga.

20 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

The island of Lampedusa would have the most viable chance in Italy. But still, as any place in Italy, the coconuts would need help (protection) for the first 3-4 years.

 

How much more proof do you need that i havent already mentioned.

Reggios official weather station is near the airport which is colder than surrounding area.

My freind has Cavendish bananas thriving flowering and fruiting profusely out in the open near the colder airport. Not even sicily can boast a dwarf Cavendish as its more delicate than regulars. Can you grow cavendish in southern Spain and Malta without protection?

A dwarf cav cant handle temps below 5c for very few hours

Theres even Mangoes growing at 400 meters above sea level above the Reggio hills without any protection.

Theres Papayas  growing wild on the hillsides south of reggio with little ones growing near the big ones all in open without any protection.

Theres very little climate info south of Reggio. Wish there was more but the proof soon will be with the plants

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veeman55
3 hours ago, NC_Palms said:

Wow, good luck with those Coconuts. :greenthumb:

I have family in Calabrese mountains but only Trachycarpus at those elevations

Hi thats cool where abouts? I know them well

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veeman55
21 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

The island of Lampedusa would have the most viable chance in Italy. But still, as any place in Italy, the coconuts would need help (protection) for the first 3-4 years.

 

Hi Alex my freind took alot of your advice regarding heating  mini canopy salt and monitoring. Thanks for that. I really want this project to succeed

The fact this greenhouse induced forced coconut is still alive this long(6 months) in the open is kind of a miracle

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NC_Palms
12 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

Hi thats cool where abouts? I know them well

In Serrastretta, Catanzaro

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GottmitAlex
3 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

Hi Alex my freind took alot of your advice regarding heating  mini canopy salt and monitoring. Thanks for that. I really want this project to succeed

The fact this greenhouse induced forced coconut is still alive this long(6 months) in the open is kind of a miracle

Veeman! Don't get me wrong. I'm rootin' for your friend.  If his coconut survives this winter, it will have won half the battle.

 

 

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Alicante
3 hours ago, veeman55 said:

How much more proof do you need that i havent already mentioned.

Reggios official weather station is near the airport which is colder than surrounding area.

My freind has Cavendish bananas thriving flowering and fruiting profusely out in the open near the colder airport. Not even sicily can boast a dwarf Cavendish as its more delicate than regulars. Can you grow cavendish in southern Spain and Malta without protection?

I am sorry but saying something without proving it it's not very valuable. I know from personal experience. I can also say my area has 10 hidden coconuts and that we never go under 5ºC during winters because I measured it, in a very special microclimate near a cove in front of the sea. The only proof is my word.

Looking at weather stations and averages, Reggio has no chance in growing a coconut unprotected. 6 months with avg highs under 20ºC... Even March has an average high of 17.1ºC and that is cool for a coconut in January. But if it's in March already, there is no chance at all. Reggio is very mild and it has an unique microclimate, but the microclimate is based on that, mildness. That's why Coconuts do grow in SoCal, but they don't make it in Europe. 

Reggio has the warmest winters in southern continental Italy (by far) because of it's very unique microclimate, sheltered by mountains. But even with this, winter highs are 14/15/16 which are a no-no for a coconut. And as we can see during this week, quite chilly days with highs under 10ºC do happen too.

The airport of Reggio is in front of the sea, surrounded by concrete buildings. Also sheltered by nearby mountains. Not sure how it is cooler:

1920px-Pista_Aeroporto_Reggio_Calabria.j

Yes, Dwarf Cavendishes do grow in Spain and also in Malta. Also in Algarve, Portugal. They are also planted in southern Cyprus in big numbers. 

Reggio di Calabria recorded various sub zero temps: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stazione_meteorologica_di_Reggio_Calabria_Aeroporto (the English Wikipedia doesn't show the entire historical sources, just a period of them) from December (last one in 2014) to March. So during 4 months, the thermometer hit the freezing mark in Reggio di Calabria. Even March had a 0ºC low, back in 1973. The lowest was -1.0ºC in January. Lampedusa is warmer than Reggio.

Edited by Alicante

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Alicante
4 hours ago, veeman55 said:

Theres even Mangoes growing at 400 meters above sea level above the Reggio hills without any protection.

Theres Papayas  growing wild on the hillsides south of reggio with little ones growing near the big ones all in open without any protection.

Theres very little climate info south of Reggio. Wish there was more but the proof soon will be with the plants

I did a quick search about mangoes in Italy and all what I found were from Sicily. In Sicily they can grow a bit inland. Not sure in Calabria, but definetly not at 400m

To see the difference with the special microclimate of Reggio, for example, this is the weather forecast during this week in Rocella Ionica (Calabria) which is a town right in the coastline, protected by high altitude mountains in the north. Light snowfall can occur during this next Friday in the morning, noticeable freezes too:

yJ6cCm1.png

Lamezia Terme, at 200masl located at few kilometers from the sea. Snowfall events this next Friday, considerable freezes and chilly highs for few days:

Ua6O7K1.png

Catanzaro, the commune goes from 350m to the coast. This prediction is for the old town, about 300m asl probably. It's at ~10km from the coast in a straight line. 

Tl6Uyj9.png

Coastal Sicily doesn't get as cold as this. Neither does Malta, which is a freeze-less area. Roccella is at the coast and it will see lows down to -3ºC this week...

I believe mangoes can grow without problem in Reggio and the nearby low areas, but it's for the mild microclimate out there. Just look a bit further north at the coast in Rocella Ionica, or Lamezia Terme at just 200m both also in Calabria. -3ºC and -4ºC lows... while in Reggio it will be 6ºC warmer (a low of 3ºC). As for the papayas, many are confused with the mountain papayas, which are very similar but much hardier. Yes, Reggio di Calabria meets the requirements for papayas.

Edited by Alicante

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pietropuccio
5 hours ago, veeman55 said:
5 hours ago, veeman55 said:

My freind has Cavendish bananas thriving flowering and fruiting profusely out in the open near the colder airport. Not even sicily can boast a dwarf Cavendish as its more delicate than regulars.

The Musa 'Dwarf Cavendish' (first picture) and the even more delicate 'Super Dwarf Cavendish' (second picture) grow very well in my garden, without any protection, the Cocos nucifera dies.

" Papayas  growing wild on the hillsides"

Some pictures?

 

DC.jpg

 

SuperDC.jpg

Edited by pietropuccio
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PalmatierMeg

What most people miss in discussions about coconuts is the concept of "cool sensitivity". Coconuts need not just warmth but high heat (and high humidity) to survive and grow well. I'm talking long periods where daytime temps are 27C (preferably 30C) and above and nights are over 20C and sweltering. Many days, even months, of daily highs of 8C to 15C will kill them as surely as a freeze. Don't forget when the air is 15C the ground is that temp also. Cold ground wreaks havoc with coconut roots. Follow 15C days with 7C nights over and over and you have a dead coconut in your future. Add cold winter rain to this occasion and the future is now. With a glaring few exceptions, SO CAL presents the same hostile-to-life growing conditions for coconuts with its mediterranean climate and winter rain. Mediterranean climates with warm(ish) days and chilly/cool nights can be delightful for people but lethal to coconuts. In the US only SFL and far SE TX offer some hope for this palm but it takes only one arctic freeze event to shatter countless hopes. As for bananas, so what? People grow ornamental bananas all over the US - they die back in winter, re-emerge in spring. They are not coconut palms, nor are mangoes, papayas etc. No comparison.

I applaud your friend's determination to grow this Dutch hothouse seedling in the ground and I will applaud his further efforts to grow one in the future if this one fails. But I totally agree with @Alicante - in Europe coconuts are greenhouse and conservatory palms or short term houseplants.
 

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RedRabbit
22 hours ago, Alicante said:

Probably in the southern Mediterranean they can do it. In places like Alexandria, Egypt. Or places like Tel Aviv (where Lior Gal grows a few) and surely also in northern Libya. Or even sheltered spots in coastal Cyprus. I think that southern Cyprus is slightly warmer than southern Europe, since it's at a lower latitude too, and the SSTs are warmer there. Stelios is growing one in southern Cyprus, but I don't know if he used some kind winter protection. I will mention him.  @Stelios

But when it comes to continental Europe, it's still not possible without some kind of protection or extra heating at least during Dec-Feb. Someone had coconuts in Málaga without protection (that zone has the warmest winter high averages in continental Europe) but during their 3rd winter they died. Many of us have heard the story of a coconut in Almuñecar, Costa del Sol, repeated in this forum during many times, but it also died after some winters. Give a Coconut too many days with highs under 18ºC and it's gone. With some winter protection they can do it in the warmest continental European climates but I feel like it's a bit of cheating. :P

It is interesting that coconuts have managed to succeed for a few years in the Costa del Sol. That seems encouraging, the climate must be right on the cusp! :D

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veeman55
On 1/1/2019, 4:46:16, GottmitAlex said:

 

@Alicantecalabria has many microclimates even at a distance of a few hundred meters or few kms like temps can vary greatly the plains from the coast at Rosarno can be   -1 and go to +10 in the deep valleys south of Bagnara my freind verified it by his car travelling few kms from location to location during to coldest days and nights

Look up the climate of vibo marina, pellaro, scilla, africo marina, bova marina, bagnara, ricadi, pizzo, catona, gallico, villa san giovanni, bocale. Many or most of these areas are frost free

Im very familiar with the mountain papaya and from what i seen they are absolutely not mountain type. They are giants at more than 24 feet which means its been frost free for many years and not only frost free but much more than above freezing because a papaya suffers from cold rain and temps for long hours of 4c and below . 

Your not the only one sceptical many dont beleive us even sicilians we talk to think were crazy but the plants dont lie. Ive seen a sicilian guys papaya plants freeze up just accross the straits of messina in super mild milazzo area who grows many tropicals under an unheated greenhouse in record cold january 2017 but nothing bad happened to the fruiting papayas, flowering january mangoes and the various musas in the Reggio area all in the open field without protection.

The Mangoes above Reggio in the hills are in fact at 400meters above sea level without any protection. My freind gave him the plants so its verified. As we know the mildest areas are about 200-300 feet above a plain or coast where the cold doesnt stay and drains downhill.

Say and beleive all the stats what you want the evidence is in the surviving plants.

Thats why we beleive this coconut despite its negative forced greenhouse origins history and the supposed negative climate conditions to what you justifiably describe is present in the Mediterranean has a chance due to this local super microclimate.

Will keep you all posted.

Look at Stelios Alex's and the Corona Coconut? Areas that are not supposed be able to survive.

Madeiras climate also shouldnt have coconuts because its not 27c or higher from december to march.

Texas and central florida gets bad frosts. Bermuda isnt as hot as claimed in jan/feb. 

23456565_10212063445840205_4202807469884513338_o.jpg

Papaya lazzaro particolare_16_01_17.jpg

download.jpg

P_20170424_085744.jpg

P_20171001_165236.jpg

mangocaton2a.jpg

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GottmitAlex
5 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

@Alicantecalabria has many microclimates even at a distance of a few hundred meters or few kms like temps can vary greatly the plains from the coast at Rosarno can be   -1 and go to +10 in the deep valleys south of Bagnara my freind verified it by his car travelling few kms from location to location during to coldest days and nights

Look up the climate of vibo marina, pellaro, scilla, africo marina, bova marina, bagnara, ricadi, pizzo, catona, gallico, villa san giovanni, bocale. Many or most of these areas are frost free

Im very familiar with the mountain papaya and from what i seen they are absolutely not mountain type. They are giants at more than 24 feet which means its been frost free for many years and not only frost free but much more than above freezing because a papaya suffers from cold rain and temps for long hours of 4c and below . 

Your not the only one sceptical many dont beleive us even sicilians we talk to think were crazy but the plants dont lie. Ive seen a sicilian guys papaya plants freeze up just accross the straits of messina in super mild milazzo area who grows many tropicals under an unheated greenhouse in record cold january 2017 but nothing bad happened to the fruiting papayas, flowering january mangoes and the various musas in the Reggio area all in the open field without protection.

The Mangoes above Reggio in the hills are in fact at 400meters above sea level without any protection. My freind gave him the plants so its verified. As we know the mildest areas are about 200-300 feet above a plain or coast where the cold doesnt stay and drains downhill.

Say and beleive all the stats what you want the evidence is in the surviving plants.

Thats why we beleive this coconut despite its negative forced greenhouse origins history and the supposed negative climate conditions to what you justifiably describe is present in the Mediterranean has a chance due to this local super microclimate.

Will keep you all posted.

Look at Stelios Alex's and the Corona Coconut? Areas that are not supposed be able to survive.

Madeiras climate also shouldnt have coconuts because its not 27c or higher from december to march.

Texas and central florida gets bad frosts. Bermuda isnt as hot as claimed in jan/feb. 

23456565_10212063445840205_4202807469884513338_o.jpg

Papaya lazzaro particolare_16_01_17.jpg

download.jpg

P_20170424_085744.jpg

P_20171001_165236.jpg

 

Dragon fruit cactus and papayas thriving at that latitude! Way to go!

Here again, I'm rooting for your friend and his Coconut there. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

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veeman55
On 1/1/2019, 4:46:16, GottmitAlex said:

The island of Lampedusa would have the most viable chance in Italy. But still, as any place in Italy, the coconuts would need help (protection) for the first 3-4 years.

 

Yes Alex Dragon Fruit without any cold protection out in the open in this area.

 

My other freind who lives only 40 min north away on a plain has to grow them in greenhouse because of frosts. His handle on fb is pitayaitaliana. He loves growing them and has got so many varieties

 

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maesy

@veeman55 if you are interested and if there is a way how to do it, I would offer you the philippine coconut I posted yesterday. That could be a real test.
:rolleyes::D

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Xenon
47 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

 

Look at Stelios Alex's and the Corona Coconut? Areas that are not supposed be able to survive.

Madeiras climate also shouldnt have coconuts because its not 27c or higher from december to march.

Texas and central florida gets bad frosts. Bermuda isnt as hot as claimed in jan/feb. 

 

All of those areas have far warmer average temperatures than you. None of the plants you mentioned are analogs for coconuts. Not enough heat for coconuts. 

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veeman55
1 hour ago, maesy said:

@veeman55 if you are interested and if there is a way how to do it, I would offer you the philippine coconut I posted yesterday. That could be a real test.
:rolleyes::D

Mabuti..Would you be able to ship it to italy? How much

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veeman55
13 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Veeman! Don't get me wrong. I'm rootin' for your friend.  If his coconut survives this winter, it will have won half the battle.

 

 

1 hour ago, maesy said:

 

Hey Alex here is Antonios pitayas group told you about. Pitayaitaliana is someone else.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/114823869242635?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_activity

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Alicante
2 hours ago, Xenon said:

All of those areas have far warmer average temperatures than you. None of the plants you mentioned are analogs for coconuts. Not enough heat for coconuts. 

Exactly. Valencia at 39°N can grow mangoes, papayas, litchis, avocados, kumquats... and many more subtropical & tropical fruits too. But a coconut is a no-no.

Madeira, Bermuda, Texas or Florida are much warmer than Reggio di Calabria lol, while Corona, CA has much warmer winter highs with frequent Dec-Jan days with highs above 25°C, that's unthinkable in Calabria. Also southern Cyprus has quite warmer winter highs,  so does coastal southern Spain, but a coconut here is a no-no. The soil temps and sun hours also count.

Veeman, you don't understand that it doesn't matter if you get no freezes (although there are no freeze-less places in Calabria at least looking at official records, which are the best source to talk about a climate). A coconut needs warm temperatures, many winter days above 20°C... while Reggio has high averages slightly surpassing 15°C in Jan-Feb. And a car thermometer is not trustworthy, neither is the same 200ft as 400m. 

In Calabria, cities on the coast or few kms inland at low-mid altitude (200-300m) will get lows of -3°C (coast) and up to -5°C as I posted the forecast above. There is no way even mangoes can grow in these places, just around low lying areas of Reggio. Reggio itself will get this week 7-8°C highs with 3°C lows and rainy weather, many exotic species will have some kind of damage because the prolonged time without warm temps, rather than lows sub zero. A coconut prefers (and lives) in 21/5 winters with occasional light freezes but it doesn't live in 15/8 winters with no freezes in 20 years. The best example is Corona, California. 

Edited by Alicante

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Alicante
5 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

What most people miss in discussions about coconuts is the concept of "cool sensitivity". Coconuts need not just warmth but high heat (and high humidity) to survive and grow well. I'm talking long periods where daytime temps are 27C (preferably 30C) and above and nights are over 20C and sweltering. Many days, even months, of daily highs of 8C to 15C will kill them as surely as a freeze. Don't forget when the air is 15C the ground is that temp also. Cold ground wreaks havoc with coconut roots. Follow 15C days with 7C nights over and over and you have a dead coconut in your future. Add cold winter rain to this occasion and the future is now. With a glaring few exceptions, SO CAL presents the same hostile-to-life growing conditions for coconuts with its mediterranean climate and winter rain. Mediterranean climates with warm(ish) days and chilly/cool nights can be delightful for people but lethal to coconuts. In the US only SFL and far SE TX offer some hope for this palm but it takes only one arctic freeze event to shatter countless hopes. As for bananas, so what? People grow ornamental bananas all over the US - they die back in winter, re-emerge in spring. They are not coconut palms, nor are mangoes, papayas etc. No comparison.

I applaud your friend's determination to grow this Dutch hothouse seedling in the ground and I will applaud his further efforts to grow one in the future if this one fails. But I totally agree with @Alicante - in Europe coconuts are greenhouse and conservatory palms or short term houseplants.
 

I completely agree with you!

Also forgot to say I was mentioning the famous Corona and Salton coconuts, which I have seen here. I know they also won't grow even in Coastal SoCal, which has January highs of 18-19°C in the warmest places and occasional really warm winter days. If they don't do there... they won't do it in Europe neither.

They do in European overseas areas tho. :D

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GottmitAlex
43 minutes ago, Alicante said:

I completely agree with you!

Also forgot to say I was mentioning the famous Corona and Salton coconuts, which I have seen here. I know they also won't grow even in Coastal SoCal, which has January highs of 18-19°C in the warmest places and occasional really warm winter days. If they don't do there... they won't do it in Europe neither.

They do in European overseas areas tho. :D

Well, there is always the Del Mar coconut. However, you're right regarding the generalization that cocos will not grow in SoCal coastal areas. The reason is lack of sun and hence, lower temps than that of inland areas. I believe there is a "sweet spot" (can't go beyond a certain point) going inland for tropicals. Elevation in our latitude is the deal breaker for attempting to grow cocos and here again, coastal areas are perpetually cool /cloudy for cocos. This has been my observation since late 2016. 

Yes, the Corona coco is another beautiful exception. 

ETA: btw, has anyone heard from Cristóbal? I understand he has (or had) coconuts planted in the Tijuana coastal area. 

Edited by GottmitAlex
Question

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maesy
1 hour ago, veeman55 said:

Mabuti..Would you be able to ship it to italy? How much

@veeman55 if you are interested and if there is a way how to do it, I would offer you the philippine coconut I posted yesterday.
:rolleyes::D

Hindi ko alam. I don't know.

You could have it for free. Only the shipping might be a challange and difficult to do.

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PalmatierMeg
13 minutes ago, Alicante said:

I completely agree with you!

Also forgot to say I was mentioning the famous Corona and Salton coconuts, which I have seen here. I know they also won't grow even in Coastal SoCal, which has January highs of 18-19°C in the warmest places and occasional really warm winter days. If they don't do there... they won't do it in Europe neither.

They do in European overseas areas tho. :D

I just finished studying your 8-day forecast and my blood ran cold. Bad, bad, bad news for any coconut not heated and totally protected.

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veeman55
11 hours ago, pietropuccio said:

 

DC.jpg

 

SuperDC.jpg

On 1/1/2019, 4:46:16, GottmitAlex said:

 

Nice but I see a wall and other vegetative protection in those sicilian cavendishes

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