10b palms in Brevard county

[Zeeth]

I was in Brevard county for Christmas break and a friend took me to a few nice gardens. There were a few surprises as far as zone pushing goes. None of these are that close to the Indian River Lagoon, so they don't have much benefit from the water.

Mauritia flexuosa:

Euterpe oleracea x edulis:

Nypa fruiticans:

[Dave-Vero]

Of course the problem with Brevard and Florida in general is vulnerability to cold snaps.  Oddly enough, with climate change, our risk of sudden freezes might possibly be increasing.  The notion is that the "polar vortex" than normally keeps cold air to the north is becoming less stable, so there's more outbreaks of seriously cold air, like the awful one that affected the east coast last year, but went out to sea over the Carolinas.  The Outer Banks got blasted (and the Norfolk Botanical Garden's palms and cycads managed OK) but Florida lucked out with a nice winter.  

We're into our ninth year without anything really nasty.  

[Jimbean]

You'll see zone 10b pushers throughout the county, especially south of Merritt Island.  I just recently moved to south Brevard and noticed a lot of zone 10b plants that one would not normally find unless one was looking around.  What recently caught my eye was gumbo limbo and an increasing number of strangler figs pushing west of I-95. 

[Rickybobby]

3 hours ago, Dave-Vero said:

Of course the problem with Brevard and Florida in general is vulnerability to cold snaps.  Oddly enough, with climate change, our risk of sudden freezes might possibly be increasing.  The notion is that the "polar vortex" than normally keeps cold air to the north is becoming less stable, so there's more outbreaks of seriously cold air, like the awful one that affected the east coast last year, but went out to sea over the Carolinas.  The Outer Banks got blasted (and the Norfolk Botanical Garden's palms and cycads managed OK) but Florida lucked out with a nice winter.  

We're into our ninth year without anything really nasty.  

And oddly enough for us up north here in Canada it’s been too warm and we can’t snowmobile enough 

[Dave-Vero]

I still haven't ventured into eastern Canada, though I did have a window seat for a Paris-Detroit flight that crossed a cold Hudson Bay and Lake Huron early this year.  

[Zeeth]

7 hours ago, Dave-Vero said:

Of course the problem with Brevard and Florida in general is vulnerability to cold snaps.  Oddly enough, with climate change, our risk of sudden freezes might possibly be increasing.  The notion is that the "polar vortex" than normally keeps cold air to the north is becoming less stable, so there's more outbreaks of seriously cold air, like the awful one that affected the east coast last year, but went out to sea over the Carolinas.  The Outer Banks got blasted (and the Norfolk Botanical Garden's palms and cycads managed OK) but Florida lucked out with a nice winter.  

We're into our ninth year without anything really nasty.  

The Mauritia is pre-2010, and I believe the Nypa and Euterpe are as well (they are in another garden which is somewhat overgrown and many of the palms are quite old). 

[redant]

I had a Mauritia through 09/10 and it did fine, then about 2 years ago it just dropped dead mid summer. I'd try a Nypa if I ever found one, my back yard is low mangroves in the brackish fairly fresh part of the Loxahatchee.

[Jimbean]

The barrier islands of Brevard do not experience freezing temperatures outside of major freezing events (i.e. 2010, 1989, etc.)

[RedRabbit]

I’ve been impressed by coastal Brevard. I don’t know if it is warmer than Pinellas county, but they’re at least doing a better job of planting an abundance of palms.

[Jimbean]

1 minute ago, RedRabbit said:

I’ve been impressed by coastal Brevard. I don’t know if it is warmer than Pinellas county, but they’re at least doing a better job of planting an abundance of palms.

I remember posting about this topic before.  Basically from my observations I believe Patrick AFB is on par with St. Petersburg, Melbourne/Palm Bay with Bradenton/Palmetto, Cocoa Beach with Clearwater, Merritt Island maybe like the interbay peninsula of Tampa, or Safety Harbor.  Sarasota is a lot like Melbourne too, and I think Venice like Fort Peirce and Fort Myers something like Port St. Lucie. 

[Dave-Vero]

Basically, Brevard was wiped out in the 1980s, culminating with the late 1987 freeze and has been recovering since.  In that freeze, royal palms, mangroves and many gumbo-limbos perished, though on South Tropical Trail you could see a bit where the gumbos had regrown.  Even Syagrus died.  Here in Vero Beach, I can see from my kitchen a royal that pretty clearly survived 1987.  Loads of young trees planted since have filled in.  Coconuts perished down here (a mile or so inland from the coast, but not on the barrier island) in large numbers, but the survivors and young coconuts are now looking fine.  A survivor is across the street from me. 

 

[Jimbean]

3 minutes ago, Dave-Vero said:

Basically, Brevard was wiped out in the 1980s, culminating with the late 1987 freeze and has been recovering since.  In that freeze, royal palms, mangroves and many gumbo-limbos perished, though on South Tropical Trail you could see a bit where the gumbos had regrown.  Even Syagrus died.  Here in Vero Beach, I can see from my kitchen a royal that pretty clearly survived 1987.  Loads of young trees planted since have filled in.  Coconuts perished down here (a mile or so inland from the coast, but not on the barrier island) in large numbers, but the survivors and young coconuts are now looking fine.  A survivor is across the street from me. 

 

just out of curiosity, where would you describe the boundaries between St. Lucie, Indian River, and Brevard counties as far as what grows where?

 

Zeeth, I apologize if I am hijacking the thread haha)

[Yunder Wækraus]

10 hours ago, Dave-Vero said:

Basically, Brevard was wiped out in the 1980s, culminating with the late 1987 freeze and has been recovering since.  In that freeze, royal palms, mangroves and many gumbo-limbos perished, though on South Tropical Trail you could see a bit where the gumbos had regrown.  Even Syagrus died.  Here in Vero Beach, I can see from my kitchen a royal that pretty clearly survived 1987.  Loads of young trees planted since have filled in.  Coconuts perished down here (a mile or so inland from the coast, but not on the barrier island) in large numbers, but the survivors and young coconuts are now looking fine.  A survivor is across the street from me. 

 

I think the destruction has been exaggerated. I had family with two different Barrier Island properties in Satellite Beach during that freeze, and though they remember it as exceptional, they didn’t sustain major tree losses. My former Indialantic neighbor had coconuts survive the freeze only to die almost 20 years later in a hurricane. I spent two years gathering local (non-palm-specialist) recollections of palm losses during that freeze on the barrier island, and no one clearly remembered losing all coconuts. My current belief is that there were many survivors sprinkled between Sebastian Inlet and the base, and our lack of knowledge about their number is more a feature of a lack of careful surveying. I’ll note that everyone clearly recalled the loss of Australian pines, so we’re not dealing with non-specialist ignorance or plant-loss amnesia here.

[Jimbean]

2 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

I think the destruction has been exaggerated. I had family with two different Barrier Island properties in Satellite Beach during that freeze, and though they remember it as exceptional, they didn’t sustain major tree losses. My former Indialantic neighbor had coconuts survive the freeze only to die almost 20 years later in a hurricane. I spent two years gathering local (non-palm-specialist) recollections of palm losses during that freeze on the barrier island, and no one clearly remembered losing all coconuts. My current belief is that there were many survivors sprinkled between Sebastian Inlet and the base, and our lack of knowledge about their number is more a feature of a lack of careful surveying. I’ll note that everyone clearly recalled the loss of Australian pines, so we’re not dealing with non-specialist ignorance or plant-loss amnesia here.

I've talked to many old-timers around here and I get basically the same input.  Also take into account that most of the development took place here locally post 1990.

[Yunder Wækraus]

7 hours ago, Jimbean said:

I've talked to many old-timers around here and I get basically the same input.  Also take into account that most of the development took place here locally post 1990.

Ahh, but not in the areas I’m discussing: older Melbourne beach, most of Indialantic, and most of Indian Harbor Beach and Satellite Beach were fully built by the time I have my earliest memories of my aunt’s old house in Satellite Beach (1980ish) and were definitely built by the time of my first visit to my cousin’s house in Satellite Beach (1987ish). Obviously, some small developments, random new homes, and substantial new condos have gone up since 1980, but fewer than you’d think. That area went from almost nothing when my dad was born in the 1940s to fully built in the 1980s. But, yeah, the folks saying that Barrier Island in Brevard was harder hit than Orchid Island don’t seem to be too familiar with areas outside of the AFB, Cocoa Beach, and major road arteries (A1A, Eau Gallie, etc.).

[pj_orlando_z9b]

The barrier island of Brevard is amazing. Looks like South Florida dotted with beautiful coconuts. 

[pj_orlando_z9b]

Was in Cape Canaveral today for a volunteer event to clean up trash from the beaches. The good news is that the beaches and surrounding areas were very clean! On my path, came across numerous very tall coconuts but also these 2 impressive plants. A massive dypsis and sea grape. 

[Jimbean]

18 hours ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Was in Cape Canaveral today for a volunteer event to clean up trash from the beaches. The good news is that the beaches and surrounding areas were very clean! On my path, came across numerous very tall coconuts but also these 2 impressive plants. A massive dypsis and sea grape. 

That's not unusual.