Frost

[PalmTreeDude 1,727]

I thought I'd start a thread about frost after seeing very thick frost this morning. How often does your climate get frost (if it even does)? Where are you located? Are you in a cold/warm microclimate or have any? Here in Virginia, near Chester, we get frost commonly during the Winter and late Fall. Tree canopy (I use Leyland Cypress for this, it works well) and close proximity to water can protect places here from a lot of the first frosts. Here was the frost this morning, the first picture is from my front yard (exposed to the West) and the second picture is from a lot with Leyland Cypress in it. Notice how the closer you get to the Leyland Cypress the less frost there is. Also keep in mind that this was a pretty heavy frost. With light frosts, it is common for places with dense canopy above to get no frost at all. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by PalmTreeDude

[kinzyjr 3,921]

In the front yard, at least a mild frost each year before I put the oak in there.  Now, the area where I see frost is diminishing as the oak spreads out.  In the back, I've never seen frost on the ground under that big oak.  I'll probably get more frost on the other side since I had to take one of my avocado trees down.

[FishEyeAquaculture 292]

My neighbor took this awesome/beautiful photo on her property this morning, about 1/3 of a mile to my west.

We had patchy light frost on our property. The difference?  We do have a good number of large trees on our property opposed to the open pasture....but we are also about 50’ higher in elevation. 

[kinzyjr 3,921]

@FishEyeAquaculture Wow, now that is a stark difference!

[GottmitAlex 2,967]

San Diego, Tijuana does not get frost. If I read correctly, the last time it snowed in San Diego/TJ was 1968.(may be off by a year). But still we do have cool winters.

 

 

 

[Manalto 419]

I'm just outside the northern city limit of Mobile; frost information (50% probability @ 32°F) is as follows:

Last Frost Date: February 28

First Frost Date: November 29

273 freeze-free days iper year.

My property has about 30% coverage from a giant live oak. The areas most protected from northerly winds are in the dappled shade of this tree.

[Palm crazy 1,363]

Had my first big frost and freeze this week. Even though I had a low of 24F and clear skies the humidity was still 83%. My car underneath a large fir tree never has frost. 

[bubba 1,377]

Frost is cool 

[Jimbean 503]

1 hour ago, bubba said:

Frost is cool 

or cold)

[mdsonofthesouth 528]

3 hours ago, bubba said:

Frost is cool 

It's not when you get it as often as we do in the winter.

[tropicbreeze 743]

So which is the worst, frost or snow?

[PalmTreeDude 1,727]

1 hour ago, tropicbreeze said:

So which is the worst, frost or snow?

Frost, it wipes out all of your tropicals (that are tender) for the season. But, if you have to go somewhere and there is snow, have fun. I guess I just like snow more. I don't mind "warm snows," like snow when the tempature is no colder than say 28 degrees F because you can go out in it and the palms (hardy ones) will be fine. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by PalmTreeDude

[mdsonofthesouth 528]

Have to agree with @PalmTreeDude. Snow 9 out of 10 times means the temperature is over 25f(usually closer to 32f) and melts the next day and even acts like an insulator. There was a scientist on Solomons Island that used the, rare for them, snow to insulate his palm and it was as tall as the building! Frost kills way worse. 

 

Honestly I'd rather not see either ever again for the rest of my life!

Edited December 10, 2018 by mdsonofthesouth

[Josue Diaz 2,703]

We typically have a handful of frosty morning each year - usually accompanying 34F or 35F nights. So far we have not dipped below 40F and the forecast has us above 40F through Christmas. Hoping for the best as January arrives. 

[UK_Palms 727]

Last night we had a low of 53F with multiple lows in the mid 50s over the past week. Yet we had frosts on 27th Sep and 3rd Oct, but no frost since then. The nights have got progressively warmer the further we head into winter, which is very odd. We had some real cold nights in the last week of September / first week of October, but we then experienced a warming trend with no more frost up until now. I'm not sure how late September can be colder than early December (in the northern hemisphere)? Very odd. Although that is due to change in the coming days with possible frost forecast...

[tropicbreeze 743]

On 12/11/2018, 12:54:20, mdsonofthesouth said:

........There was a scientist on Solomons Island that used the, rare for them, snow to insulate his palm and it was as tall as the building!..........

I always had the impression that frost came with clear skies and was usually followed by clear sunny days with a warming sun. Snow suggests overcast skies with no warming sun during the day. That's what made me wonder which was the worst.

mdsonofthesouth, I can't make sense of that comment about the Solomons. They're so close to the equator it's hard to imagine you'd get snow even on the highest peaks, let alone enough to protect a palm as tall as a building, any sized building. Did you get any more information about it?

[mdsonofthesouth 528]

13 minutes ago, tropicbreeze said:

I always had the impression that frost came with clear skies and was usually followed by clear sunny days with a warming sun. Snow suggests overcast skies with no warming sun during the day. That's what made me wonder which was the worst.

mdsonofthesouth, I can't make sense of that comment about the Solomons. They're so close to the equator it's hard to imagine you'd get snow even on the highest peaks, let alone enough to protect a palm as tall as a building, any sized building. Did you get any more information about it?

 

I understand your confusion! Solomons island is an "island" in Southern Maryland in the Chesapeake that I went to several times a year growing up. It's where I started to love palm trees as some of the people there have planted trachycarpus successfully. Havent been in years to see if any still remain but here is the one I was talking about and the most snoww this area has seen is maybe a few inches at a time and that's extremely rare for that area.

 

Pretty old picture would love to find out if it is still around.

Edited December 11, 2018 by mdsonofthesouth

[Matthew92 991]

Speaking of which, frost advisories have just been added for more regions of Central FL and now includes the Orlando area.

[pj_orlando_z9b 996]

6 hours ago, Opal92 said:

Speaking of which, frost advisories have just been added for more regions of Central FL and now includes the Orlando area.

Classic radiational event setting up tonight across Orlando. I sit on the SE side of a large lake. My temp has risen 5 degrees after bottoming at 44F. Meanwhile locations just 3-4 miles from me have fallen to upper 30s. A 10F difference over the past few hours as seen on the right side of the plots.

Edited December 12, 2018 by pj_orlando_z9b

[tropicbreeze 743]

10 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

I understand your confusion! Solomons island is an "island" in Southern Maryland in the Chesapeake that I went to several times a year growing up. It's where I started to love palm trees as some of the people there have planted trachycarpus successfully. Havent been in years to see if any still remain but here is the one I was talking about and the most snoww this area has seen is maybe a few inches at a time and that's extremely rare for that area.

 

Pretty old picture would love to find out if it is still around.

LOL, thanks. I'll have to watch out for that subtle difference in future, Solomon Islands vs Solomon's Island.

[kinzyjr 3,921]

Got some ice on the windshield and the top of the car this morning:

 

[cm05 289]

Moved here from NYC last winter, I’ve never seen this much heavy frost in my life. Seriously, I don’t recall seeing such frequent frost occurrences while living in NYC, my hunch is that the city’s super-heat island is to blame (or thank) as it generally prevents much radiational cooling, which is a necessary ingredient for hoar frost (the most common kind). Here in the suburbs the temperature plummets with ease, I see frost literally every other day.

Advective cold, which negates the affects of a heat island, is solely responsible for NYC’s zone 7b rating, if it weren’t for that the city would probably be zone 8b. That heat island is serious, especially in the summer, I miss it lol.

[pj_orlando_z9b 996]

On 12/11/2018, 4:54:42, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

I understand your confusion! Solomons island is an "island" in Southern Maryland in the Chesapeake that I went to several times a year growing up. It's where I started to love palm trees as some of the people there have planted trachycarpus successfully. Havent been in years to see if any still remain but here is the one I was talking about and the most snoww this area has seen is maybe a few inches at a time and that's extremely rare for that area.

 

Pretty old picture would love to find out if it is still around.

It did not make it. I remember reading on another palm board years ago. Maybe it was the 2010 winter? The theory was it benefited from the siting of the brick wall and once it got above the roof line it was exposed to the elements. It had a great run!

[pj_orlando_z9b 996]

Think Cocoa Beach has a nice microclimate due to surrounding water? West of 95...cold but low 50s on the barrier island. 1 AM on 12/23.

[Estlander 524]

Coastal FL panhandle is the warmest area in Florida right now after the Keys. That’s pretty crazy. 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Estlander

[Estlander 524]

I-75 area between Lake City and Gainesville consistently seems to have one of the the coolest night time temperatures during these cold spells, I’ve noticed. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Estlander

[mdsonofthesouth 528]

8 hours ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

It did not make it. I remember reading on another palm board years ago. Maybe it was the 2010 winter? The theory was it benefited from the siting of the brick wall and once it got above the roof line it was exposed to the elements. It had a great run!

 According to this 2010 to 2015 post about it says it was thriving as of 2010. I am in a colder harsher climate by a decent margin than solomons and mine are still looking well with HORRIBLE placement. I'd love to make a trip to see it again with my own eyes. 

 

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2093347/mature-windmill-palm-solomons-island-md

[krishnaraoji88 438]

On 12/22/2018, 9:48:03, Estlander said:

I-75 area between Lake City and Gainesville consistently seems to have one of the the coolest night time temperatures during these cold spells, I’ve noticed. 

My family has a farm out that way (Levy co) and the sandhills there are absolutely frigid during the winter. There are remote areas there that have winter lows that are almost 8a at times. It was odd because my grandmother would have random northern plants from garden catalogs that somehow got enough chill hours to flower there but I tried a few in Ocala in my earlier days and they were no-gos.