Northernmost CIDP's

[Chester B]

I've yet to visit southern Oregon, but a quick scan of google maps showed some a real nice CIDP in Gold Beach.  As far as I know these are the northern most ones in North America.  I have a feeling their range may be creeping slowly Northward.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/g1DRgMP3ZHR2

[Chester B]

Another half hour south you reach Brookings, Oregon.  I found a couple more on Google street view.  Too bad it didn't map the whole town.  Judging from the aerial views these palms are pretty rare in each town.  Why wouldn't you plant one if you could!

 

 

[GaDawg]

Well, the take up a lot of room when they’re younger. 

They’re a fairly common landscape Palm here in our 8b. But, people who live in these 1/4 acre lot neighborhoods don’t have the room in their yard.  

Here are some Canary’s right down the road in our 8b: 

Edited December 6, 2018 by GaDawg

[Chester B]

Those are pretty nice.  I live in 8B but we can't grow many palms hardy to our zone due to the excessive rain/moisture in the winter.  The palms shown above are in 9B.

[Palm crazy]

Those are for sure the most northern phoenix palms in N. America. Thanks for finding them. There are some smaller ones in 9a a little farther north but they are not as old. 

[GaDawg]

It’s starting to feel like the northwest here in the southeast. We’ve had mild weather so far, but we just got 5.5 inches of rain in three days; and, more on is way. 

We get a good amount of rain and humidity here in the southeast, but I don’t think it’s anything like the northeast. 

[Palm crazy]

1 minute ago, GaDawg said:

It’s starting to feel like the northwest here in the southeast. We’ve had mild weather so far, but we just got 5.5 inches of rain in three days; and, more on is way. 

We get a good amount of rain and humidity here in the southeast, but I don’t think it’s anything like the northeast. 

Olympia, where I am at, has some of the highest humidity (inland) in the PNW.  The yearly average is 78%. It has been so dry here for the last 9 months it feels more like the S.E, lol. 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

Ive seen some in street-views around that area.  the most northern Trunking ones longterm on the east coast seem to stop a little north of charelston sc here are a few

while there are some trunking ones north it seems pre 1989 ones are not common at all.

heres some in southeastern NC that got badly burned after this winter.  heres a pre winter pic.

the most northern CIDP trunking seems to be this one located in hateras island NC.  the property seems to have quite a few other palms including euro fan palms sabal minor, palmetto and a sago too.  

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

considering the damage on these nearby buxton palmettos I doubt it survived last winters cold.

[GaDawg]

Sorry, I just noticed I checked the wrong picture on my phone. One of those is a painting. 

Heres the one I meant to upload:  

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

4 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Sorry, I just noticed I checked the wrong picture on my phone. One of those is a painting. 

Heres the one I meant to upload:  

Georgia has some great ones! Brunswick is a great place to see tons of old date palms!

a few pics in brunswick where u were

Edited December 6, 2018 by Mr.SamuraiSword

[GaDawg]

14 minutes ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Ive seen some in street-views around that area.  the most northern Trunking ones longterm on the east coast seem to stop a little north of charelston sc here are a few

while there are some trunking ones north it seems pre 1989 ones are not common at all.

heres some in southeastern NC that got badly burned after this winter.  heres a pre winter pic.

the most northern CIDP trunking seems to be this one located in hateras island NC.  the property seems to have quite a few other palms including euro fan palms sabal minor, palmetto and a sago too.  

Where at north of Charleston is that? Charleston has a small area where the microclimate is 9a. Outside of that, though, it’s a solid 8b. 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

1 minute ago, GaDawg said:

Where at north of Charleston is that? Charleston has a small area where the microclimate is 9a. Outside of that, though, it’s a solid 8b. 

that picture was in charelston.  but from what Im aware folly beach and isle of palms have some pre 89 date palms the other pictures are in NC

Edited December 6, 2018 by Mr.SamuraiSword

[GaDawg]

14 minutes ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Georgia has some great ones! Brunswick is a great place to see tons of old date palms!

a few pics in brunswick where u were

I think I actually took those pictures. Lol

Where’d you get those at? 

[GaDawg]

1st one is in Waycross (8b) about 50 miles inland from the Atlantic. 

The 2nd one is in Jesup, a little north of where i live. It was a drive by shot I just took, so the quality isn’t that great. 

These were planted a little over 10 years ago. 

 

 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

41 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

I think I actually took those pictures. Lol

Where’d you get those at? 

lol facebook . 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

34 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

1st one is in Waycross (8b) about 50 miles inland from the Atlantic. 

The 2nd one is in Jesup, a little north of where i live. It was a drive by shot I just took, so the quality isn’t that great. 

These were planted a little over 10 years ago. 

 

 

good finds!

[GaDawg]

2 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

lol facebook . 

People Who Love Palm Trees and Exotic Plants? 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

13 hours ago, GaDawg said:

People Who Love Palm Trees and Exotic Plants? 

bingo!

[GaDawg]

4 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

bingo!

Yeah, that was me!! Lol

[UK_Palms]

The northernmost CIDP's in the world are in London, England at 51N. At least large specimens in the ground that is. I don't think you'll find any other CIDP's, that are planted in the ground, further north than London. That is definitely the furthest north in the world that they can reliably be grown at. Lots of big 25ft+ specimens around London as well now with more appearing each year. Some London neighbourhoods are starting to resemble LA with large CIDPs and Washingtonia in back yards & on streets. 

I know there were some specimens in the northeast of England, in Boston, Lincoln & York, but they keep getting wiped out every couple of years during cold winters. They do not survive long term outside of London and the south coast. Some people keep CIDP's in pots as far north as Scotland though, and bring them in during the winter. I suppose you can do that anywhere though, with pots, even in Canada. But in terms of them surviving in the ground, London is the furthest north. I would love someone to disprove that and show me evidence of any other CIDP's growing in the ground further north than London at 51N...

Here are a few pics from London...

[RJ]

Amazing what can be grown that far north in the UK. We have some tall ones around here, mostly around the moderating temps of the lake. Charleston, SC is home to many very large ones. 

 

 

[kinzyjr]

40 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

The northernmost CIDP's in the world are in London, England at 51N. At least large specimens in the ground that is. I don't think you'll find any other CIDP's, that are planted in the ground, further north than London. That is definitely the furthest north in the world that they can reliably be grown at. Lots of big 25ft+ specimens around London as well now with more appearing each year. Some London neighbourhoods are starting to resemble LA with large CIDPs and Washingtonia in back yards & on streets. 

I know there were some specimens in the northeast of England, in Boston, Lincoln & York, but they keep getting wiped out every couple of years during cold winters. They do not survive long term outside of London and the south coast. Some people keep CIDP's in pots as far north as Scotland though, and bring them in during the winter. I suppose you can do that anywhere though, with pots, even in Canada. But in terms of them surviving in the ground, London is the furthest north. I would love someone to disprove that and show me evidence of any other CIDP's growing in the ground further north than London at 51N...

Here are a few pics from London...

There are a few pics on palmpedia from Northumberland, UK @ 55o, but they may either get special care or have died.  If there is a place north of London, then it would likely be on the west coast of the UK or one of the other countries in Northern Europe where the Gulf Stream could ensure their survival.

Link to palmpedia: http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Phoenix_canariensis

[Ryland]

I have chanced upon this discussion and can see it's a couple years old, but in case anyone is still interested there are numerous Canary Island Date Palms here in the UK, growing further north than London (as noted by UK_Palms).  They do often look like the Northumberland examples mentioned, but it depends on where they are kept and how long they have been in the ground.  London has an advantage due to its summer heat encouraging more rapid growth, which is why you tend to see bigger ones there, but survivability is similar to many places further north.  In the north and even to a degree in Scotland there are very similar winter temperatures to London (around 7C day, 2C night or 45F day, 36F night, frosts fairly rare here in northwest England), but London's (and the south in general) summer days are noticeably warmer - typically 24C/75F whereas warm parts of the north only average around 21C/70F.  This is like the Oregon coast, but with cooler winters.  Apart from certain frosty elevated or inland areas (e.g. Shropshire, Durham, the Peak District, much of the midlands and most of inland Scotland), winters, especially in urban and coastal areas, rarely see temperatures below -5C or 23F.  Here in Manchester the coldest we've had in the last decade is -6C/21F.

This not only allows many palms to grow, but the Canary Island Date Palms, Windmill Palms, and Mediterranean Fan Palms are even commonly found in your average garden centre, so many people have them.  One of mine came from a Tesco supermarket for only £2.  You do tend to see far more Windmill palms, some fully mature tall trees, perhaps because many Canary Island Date Palms could have been lost to the 2010 freeze, or because they were less commonly available before. There's an excellent supplier in Lancashire offering a much broader range of species that can grow (albeit slowly) in this climate.

Having said that there are a few examples of Canary Island Date Palms that are flourishing and starting to progress towards London-like sizes.  I've dug up a few pictures below, of a nice pair of them in Leeds city centre and one in public gardens in Scarborough near the North Sea - both in Yorkshire, around 54 degrees north.  The ones that are planted out, rather than potted, do tend to grow more vigorously.

Street view Leeds: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8007673,-1.548878,3a,75y,14.01h,87.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7-2gNfiWvBKYPZdqD0R4dQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Street view Manchester (a younger group, looking very prickly): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4244307,-2.2310113,3a,75y,350.15h,83.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCbMxghfsObblPcfto8hGsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Street view Scarborough (a bit hard to spot up the hill away from the road): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.2814882,-0.3966043,3a,75y,304.3h,94.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1srPMD0MM6aPa12NgRTyzGzg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DrPMD0MM6aPa12NgRTyzGzg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D320.92566%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Hopefully given time these develop into nice mature trees like some of the ones in London or Cornwall are becoming.  Provided a continued run of ordinary winters it seems perfectly possible, but a recurrence of the deep freeze across northern Europe that happened in 2010 would wipe out some of the less protected and potted ones (it got as cold as -11C/12F here in Manchester - the coldest it has been since 1963).

Edited March 24, 2021 by Ryland
Reordered photos

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 12/6/2018 at 1:47 PM, Chester B said:

I've yet to visit southern Oregon, but a quick scan of google maps showed some a real nice CIDP in Gold Beach.  As far as I know these are the northern most ones in North America.  I have a feeling their range may be creeping slowly Northward.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/g1DRgMP3ZHR2

Are there any Cidp's in the south coast of Scotland?

[palmsOrl]

On 12/6/2018 at 4:07 PM, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Georgia has some great ones! Brunswick is a great place to see tons of old date palms!

a few pics in brunswick where u were

You just don't see CIDPs like this in my area (Orlando area).  They never get that tall and look scrawny in comparison with yellowing older leaves in most cases.

[Sabal King]

Anyone successfully growing long-term CIDP in North Texas?  We're re-doing some landscaping and our retaining wall area will have a nice rounded corner where a CIDP would be a great anchor point.  Wondering if it makes sense to try.  Anyone?

[UK_Palms]

@Ryland I'm surprised to see some specimens in Manchester and Leeds (53N). I knew it was only a matter of time though, as they are creeping further and further north and more and more into rural, countryside areas that don't have UHI's. Coastal Wales seems to have quite a few CIDP's now as well, as does the Wirral near Liverpool. I don't know if anyone has any photos of the biggish ones in the Wirral, which also has some washies there too...?

There are a number of CIDP in East Yorkshire and here is a close up of the one in North Yorkshire specimen at 54N, which is now flowering. That has been there for over a decade now, I believe. This is actually located further north than Edmonton, Canada...

 

 

12 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Are there any Cidp's in the south coast of Scotland?

I know there are some CIDP on the western isles of Scotland, but I can't be sure exactly where. I think it may be the Isle of Mull, or Isle of Sky, both of which are located at 56N. One of the CIDP's supposedly has a 3m trunk, so I will make it my mission to find the locations this weekend. If that is the case, it will be by far the most northerly planted out CIDP in the world. That's as far north as the southern regions of Alaska. 

[NBTX11]

12 hours ago, tlow said:

Anyone successfully growing long-term CIDP in North Texas?  We're re-doing some landscaping and our retaining wall area will have a nice rounded corner where a CIDP would be a great anchor point.  Wondering if it makes sense to try.  Anyone?

Someone posted a photo of a large CIDP in DFW a few months ago.  No idea how it fared in this freeze.  I say go for it, they are really hardy, although not leaf hardy below 20F.  They've been known to take single digits F and recover after complete defoliation.