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sonoranfans

I started trimming leafbases(many just fell off) up on my sabal causiarum.  Less than 2' clear, its a fattie at 36" diameter.  This palm was planted in summer 2011 as a big strap leaf seedling.  It has come a long way to about 20-22' in overall height.  Its a beast and has brought 2 volunteers under a nearby bush(not sure if I cut down the bush now.  Originally it was labelled a sabal domingensis by Tejas tropicals but the small fruits and 3 orders of branching match Scott Zonas ID of causiarum.  And yes it has ligules, but not until it trunked a couple years ago.  For scale, my foot is wearing a 12 1/2 size shoe 13" in length.

SCausiarum2018oct.jpg

causiarum trunk.jpg

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RJ

Love it! They're on my to grow list. Thanks for sharing! 

 

 

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James760

She's a beauty! That's amazing growing in just 7+ years!

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Stevetoad

Whhhooo. Dats a fatty. Mine should be showing some leg pretty soon too

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Missi

Gorgeous! I purchased 3 seedlings earlier this year. They're growing FAST for Sabal seedlings!!

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Turtlesteve

Great palm.  I've got some at 1 and 2 years old, here's hoping they grow a this speed!

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Alicehunter2000

Great Growth

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RJ
3 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Great Growth

Sorry to be OT.

David, welcome back, many of us where concerned for you after the hurricane. 

 

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Alicehunter2000

Thanks...it's been busy for sure

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RJ
On 11/3/2018, 4:40:59, sonoranfans said:

I started trimming leafbases(many just fell off) up on my sabal causiarum.  Less than 2' clear, its a fattie at 36" diameter.  This palm was planted in summer 2011 as a big strap leaf seedling.  It has come a long way to about 20-22' in overall height.  Its a beast and has brought 2 volunteers under a nearby bush(not sure if I cut down the bush now.  Originally it was labelled a sabal domingensis by Tejas tropicals but the small fruits and 3 orders of branching match Scott Zonas ID of causiarum.  And yes it has ligules, but not until it trunked a couple years ago.  For scale, my foot is wearing a 12 1/2 size shoe 13" in length.

SCausiarum2018oct.jpg

causiarum trunk.jpg

Tom, how far would you estimate you planted that from the side of the house? I would like to plant some at the house I'm having built. 

Thanks

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sonoranfans

RJ, just took a tape measure to it, its 10' 5" center of trunk to house outer wall.  Once it gets up over the roof it will be fine.  For now the leaves can rub the outer wall a bit, and some got abraded in IRMA.  This palm did well in iRMA, it lost ~5 of older leaves and one newer leaf had a petiole snap but this thing came roaring back this year, throwing new leaves faster than ever.

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RJ

Perfect thank you, Sir. 

 

 

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Brian F. Austin

Great looking palm and such great size after 7 years. 

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Causarium grow very fast.  We have some nice 3G plants available.

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sonoranfans

This sabal causiarum is my fastest growing fan palm, the thick trunk makes every other palm in my neighborhood, even bismarckia, look thin by comparison.   I can't understand why its not planted more here in west central florida.  I guess its because big box stores dont sell them.  A grove of them in a park would be amazing! 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

This sabal causiarum is my fastest growing fan palm, the thick trunk makes every other palm in my neighborhood, even bismarckia, look thin by comparison.

Hands down my favorite Sabal , love the fat trunk and huge head of fronds!!! 

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sonoranfans

update to february 2020:  its getting taller and still seems to be increasing in girth, call it 40" diameter.  The lowest petiole is about 7 1/2 feet off the ground.  I shot this without the wide angle lens but added the adirondack chair for scale.   I recently mulched and added an of inch of topsoil around it for the first time.  I could see some signs of potassium deficiency in lower leaves so it got a shot of sulpomag and more florikan palm fertilizer for the spring a week ago.  I still remove brown dead leaves, but the leafbases are coming off by hand now, no saw.

causiarumFeb2020.jpg

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RJ

Man I can't stop just being in awe of it. If you ever think of collecting some seeds from it it PLEASE consider distributing some. I would certainly make it economical :greenthumb:

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@sonoranfans I'm with RJ this is a specimen palm for sure, rivaling a well grown Bismarkia. I'll go out on a limb and day it's the nicest Sabal on PT maybe a tie with @Stevetoad' s. Not sure if steve can get his whole palm in a pic Haha. Great growing :greenthumb:

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Stevetoad
2 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

update to february 2020:  its getting taller and still seems to be increasing in girth, call it 40" diameter.  The lowest petiole is about 7 1/2 feet off the ground.  I shot this without the wide angle lens but added the adirondack chair for scale.   I recently mulched and added an of inch of topsoil around it for the first time.  I could see some signs of potassium deficiency in lower leaves so it got a shot of sulpomag and more florikan palm fertilizer for the spring a week ago.  I still remove brown dead leaves, but the leafbases are coming off by hand now, no saw.

causiarumFeb2020.jpg

She’s a beaut! Do you remember how big it was when it started flowering? Mines gotten pretty big but nothing yet

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Stevetoad
1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@sonoranfans I'm with RJ this is a specimen palm for sure, rivaling a well grown Bismarkia. I'll go out on a limb and day it's the nicest Sabal on PT maybe a tie with @Stevetoad' s. Not sure if steve can get his whole palm in a pic Haha. Great growing :greenthumb:

Nope. Cant fit it anymore. It’s not as big as @sonoranfans but it’s coming along. 
here’s a pic today with my son for scale. 

F8FAC579-9014-47B0-B271-DFEAD1DA1D07.jpeg

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

Steve I love seeing pics of your son climbing your Sabal. Hoping one day my daughter can climb one of her own =) 

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Sabal Steve
4 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

update to february 2020:  its getting taller and still seems to be increasing in girth, call it 40" diameter.  The lowest petiole is about 7 1/2 feet off the ground.  I shot this without the wide angle lens but added the adirondack chair for scale.   I recently mulched and added an of inch of topsoil around it for the first time.  I could see some signs of potassium deficiency in lower leaves so it got a shot of sulpomag and more florikan palm fertilizer for the spring a week ago.  I still remove brown dead leaves, but the leafbases are coming off by hand now, no saw.

causiarumFeb2020.jpg

That’s a really nice palm Tom.  I like the adirondack chair, for scale.  What a monster.

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sonoranfans

Steve, it started setting seed in 2017, the first year there was not much but after it really came on with 6-8 inflorescence stalks.

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mlovecan

That's funny. Mine has been in the ground for 13 years and is tiny. I was told by the guy who sold it to me they were very slow and mine has proven to be. Maybe 3 meters tall now.

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howfam
On 11/3/2018 at 4:40 PM, sonoranfans said:

I started trimming leafbases(many just fell off) up on my sabal causiarum.  Less than 2' clear, its a fattie at 36" diameter.  This palm was planted in summer 2011 as a big strap leaf seedling.  It has come a long way to about 20-22' in overall height.  Its a beast and has brought 2 volunteers under a nearby bush(not sure if I cut down the bush now.  Originally it was labelled a sabal domingensis by Tejas tropicals but the small fruits and 3 orders of branching match Scott Zonas ID of causiarum.  And yes it has ligules, but not until it trunked a couple years ago.  For scale, my foot is wearing a 12 1/2 size shoe 13" in length.

SCausiarum2018oct.jpg

causiarum trunk.jpg

Awesome Palm! Tell me, what kind of nutrition plan, fertilization regiment did you use to achieve this fast growth? I just stepped up to one gal. some new S.  causiarum seedlings I got from Rare Palm Seeds.com (100% germination), and would like to get them off to a good start./ howfam    

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sonoranfans

I put this palm in the ground as a 15 gallon that was rootbound.  It did not have divided leaves yet but was over 2' tall.  It went into an area with partial clay soil (near the house) and it was being watered with the grass 2x a week for 30 mins.  At first, very little fertilizer was put down, a handful of florikan every 6 months for the first two years.  The palm develops a large underground root structure before starting fast growth up top, it looked moderate in growth at first.  After the first two years, growth rate increased and I started putting down double the fertilizer(controlled release florikan, its NOT a time release which dissipates much faster during rain events).   I also put own humic acid for all my palms 2x a year when the rain abates and its still warm(~march, october).  I use it on all my container palms/plants too. Humic acid is a nutrient chelator and stimulates growth of mycorrhizal content of the soil to increase nutrient uptake.  Its basically the final decomposition product of mulch, natural soil conditioning.  This palm picked up speed as it approached trunking and has been on a growth tear ever since.   Its the fastest fan palm I ever grew, a tad faster than bismarckia. I did not dote upon this palm, this species is well adapted to my climate.  Then there is our 10 month growing season, mild winters(10a the last 5 years), and 50-60 inches of mostly summer rain that likely make a difference conpared with some other climates where this palm is grown.  You should be able to grow one of these very well in jacksonville, they are very cold hardy to the mid to low teens F.   The soil should retain water, Im sure the clay helps and in the last 3 years I have been mulching around it with metaleuca mulch(stays in place better than others and is renewable) every year.  If I were you I would upgrade each container in increments.  this went from a 1 gallon to a 3 gallon to a 7 gallon to a 15 gallon and then in the ground.  Each time it became rootbound before upsizing.   If I had upgraded right away to a 15 gallon that prevents new soil(without accumulated hardness scale) from getting too heavy in the soil and interfering with growth.  Upsizing containers in increments also allows the roots to be closer to the bottom where the dry cycling is longer than at more shallow depth in a bigger container.  I have done this also with otherr palms with very good success.  this sabal wants to be in the ground when root bound, not doubt.  But in my soil I felt that waiting till it was rootb ound 15 gallon was the right choice.  I never plant anything less than 5 gallon size here any more, as our spring dry season tends to dehydrate small in ground palms.  this palm now sees sun for 10+ hrs, nothing blocks or filters the sun from it.

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mnorell

I have posted about this species before, but I just want to concur with the kudos above accorded to this spectacular Sabal. It served me well at our old place in Natchez, Mississippi, which is a 9a and the obvious Deep South humid heat in summer; but with (mostly) wet, cold winters and about a 50F isotherm in January (like Charleston/Savannah more or less, definitely colder than Jacksonville). I bought two small plants from YuccaDo in 2005 (I think they were in 1 gal deep citrus pots) and planted them out in June of that year.  They are in fairly rich black Mississippi soil (due to over 150 years of human activity at that house, no doubt with lots of organics, including a lot of old used coal that we uncovered in that area) on top of a Loess substrate, which is the best soil environment I have had in my various locations over the years.

Aside from the native S. minor, I also planted other Sabals at the same time, all about the same size: S. palmetto, S. mexicana, S. maritima, S. dominguensis, S. yapa, S. mauritiiformis, S. rosei. While all are still alive after about a half-dozen terrible, long, wet freezes into the teens, I can say that S. causiarum is the fastest-growing of those species under those environmental conditions (in terms of size, not in number of leaves produced, which would easily go to S. palmetto). Those two trees are now I think about 25 feet tall with massive leaves and about to clear the roof of the house.  The only damage they have taken was moderate leaf-burn in the coldest temperature recorded, which was about 13F in early 2018.  I planted a temporary Bismarckia (lasted 4 years) in front of one while it was establishing, knowing that it would perish once we went below 20F (it did).  

In terms of overall size over the last 15 years, I would rank those species as follows: causiarum (25'), palmetto (23'), mexicana (18')...then a big jump down to the slower species: dominguensis (5', leaves burn somewhat in half the years), maritima (this one would be much larger in sun but is only 4' due to deep north-side shade), rosei (3', shaded), and still-small, half-hardy yapa and mauritiiformis. I love them all, but I have to say S. causiarum is truly worthy of the term "awesome"! I agree it should be a grand avenue palm throughout the 9a or warmer areas of the Deep South.

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@mnorell Thanks for sharing your experiences with sabals in a true 9a environment. Move love to see a picture of your S.Causiarum as I'm also a huge fan of it and agree should be used more often, especially here in South East Texas !! 

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howfam
On 5/3/2020 at 12:58 PM, mnorell said:

I have posted about this species before, but I just want to concur with the kudos above accorded to this spectacular Sabal. It served me well at our old place in Natchez, Mississippi, which is a 9a and the obvious Deep South humid heat in summer; but with (mostly) wet, cold winters and about a 50F isotherm in January (like Charleston/Savannah more or less, definitely colder than Jacksonville). I bought two small plants from YuccaDo in 2005 (I think they were in 1 gal deep citrus pots) and planted them out in June of that year.  They are in fairly rich black Mississippi soil (due to over 150 years of human activity at that house, no doubt with lots of organics, including a lot of old used coal that we uncovered in that area) on top of a Loess substrate, which is the best soil environment I have had in my various locations over the years.

Aside from the native S. minor, I also planted other Sabals at the same time, all about the same size: S. palmetto, S. mexicana, S. maritima, S. dominguensis, S. yapa, S. mauritiiformis, S. rosei. While all are still alive after about a half-dozen terrible, long, wet freezes into the teens, I can say that S. causiarum is the fastest-growing of those species under those environmental conditions (in terms of size, not in number of leaves produced, which would easily go to S. palmetto). Those two trees are now I think about 25 feet tall with massive leaves and about to clear the roof of the house.  The only damage they have taken was moderate leaf-burn in the coldest temperature recorded, which was about 13F in early 2018.  I planted a temporary Bismarckia (lasted 4 years) in front of one while it was establishing, knowing that it would perish once we went below 20F (it did).  

In terms of overall size over the last 15 years, I would rank those species as follows: causiarum (25'), palmetto (23'), mexicana (18')...then a big jump down to the slower species: dominguensis (5', leaves burn somewhat in half the years), maritima (this one would be much larger in sun but is only 4' due to deep north-side shade), rosei (3', shaded), and still-small, half-hardy yapa and mauritiiformis. I love them all, but I have to say S. causiarum is truly worthy of the term "awesome"! I agree it should be a grand avenue palm throughout the 9a or warmer areas of the Deep South.

Thanks for that very informative narrative. Could you please post some pics of some of these palms, especially the causiarum and mexicana. /howfam

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howfam
On 5/1/2020 at 9:40 AM, sonoranfans said:

I put this palm in the ground as a 15 gallon that was rootbound.  It did not have divided leaves yet but was over 2' tall.  It went into an area with partial clay soil (near the house) and it was being watered with the grass 2x a week for 30 mins.  At first, very little fertilizer was put down, a handful of florikan every 6 months for the first two years.  The palm develops a large underground root structure before starting fast growth up top, it looked moderate in growth at first.  After the first two years, growth rate increased and I started putting down double the fertilizer(controlled release florikan, its NOT a time release which dissipates much faster during rain events).   I also put own humic acid for all my palms 2x a year when the rain abates and its still warm(~march, october).  I use it on all my container palms/plants too. Humic acid is a nutrient chelator and stimulates growth of mycorrhizal content of the soil to increase nutrient uptake.  Its basically the final decomposition product of mulch, natural soil conditioning.  This palm picked up speed as it approached trunking and has been on a growth tear ever since.   Its the fastest fan palm I ever grew, a tad faster than bismarckia. I did not dote upon this palm, this species is well adapted to my climate.  Then there is our 10 month growing season, mild winters(10a the last 5 years), and 50-60 inches of mostly summer rain that likely make a difference conpared with some other climates where this palm is grown.  You should be able to grow one of these very well in jacksonville, they are very cold hardy to the mid to low teens F.   The soil should retain water, Im sure the clay helps and in the last 3 years I have been mulching around it with metaleuca mulch(stays in place better than others and is renewable) every year.  If I were you I would upgrade each container in increments.  this went from a 1 gallon to a 3 gallon to a 7 gallon to a 15 gallon and then in the ground.  Each time it became rootbound before upsizing.   If I had upgraded right away to a 15 gallon that prevents new soil(without accumulated hardness scale) from getting too heavy in the soil and interfering with growth.  Upsizing containers in increments also allows the roots to be closer to the bottom where the dry cycling is longer than at more shallow depth in a bigger container.  I have done this also with otherr palms with very good success.  this sabal wants to be in the ground when root bound, not doubt.  But in my soil I felt that waiting till it was rootb ound 15 gallon was the right choice.  I never plant anything less than 5 gallon size here any more, as our spring dry season tends to dehydrate small in ground palms.  this palm now sees sun for 10+ hrs, nothing blocks or filters the sun from it.

Thanks for that advice on fertilization. Seems you have it down to a science. I'd like to get some of that Florikan for some of my palms that are already in ground. Where can I get some. /howfam

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kinzyjr
12 minutes ago, howfam said:

Thanks for that advice on fertilization. Seems you have it down to a science. I'd like to get some of that Florikan for some of my palms that are already in ground. Where can I get some. /howfam

This should help: https://www.florikan.com/distributors

Looks like Ocala might be the nearest to you... or maybe Cairo, GA

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howfam
2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

This should help: https://www.florikan.com/distributors

Looks like Ocala might be the nearest to you... or maybe Cairo, GA

Thanks for the link. I contacted the one in Ocala but they only sell florikan by the pallet, not just a bag or two like I would need. They referred me to a vendor here in Jacksonville who didn't carry florikan , but something they say would be an equivalent. I'll check them out on my next day off. Thanks again./ howfam

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RJ

Yeah I can't find it around here either. :rant:

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Fusca
8 hours ago, howfam said:

Thanks for that very informative narrative. Could you please post some pics of some of these palms, especially the causiarum and mexicana. /howfam

Here are some habitat pics of Sabal mexicana down in Brownsville, Texas that I've posted in another thread.  This area is just a few hundred feet from the Mexico border.

389940185_Sabalsanctuary.thumb.jpg.3b15e2ebca70a126c739a5f6ec2f7fec.jpg177149838_Sabalmex4.thumb.jpg.ba7e351d2b92e7744ba9eb48fc25d893.jpg2075204179_Sabalmex6.thumb.jpg.402aa5151948f09a6d7029e91ca02fc2.jpg424868107_Sabalmex7.thumb.jpg.4c9d91b295b70821ffccbc5ed60d928b.jpg979210445_Sabalmex8.thumb.jpg.b5a3040bc34be7e21c0ffd5c34a70510.jpg

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sonoranfans

Here is an update on my sabal causiarum now with 6'+ clear trunk and its fruiting prolifically.  I have included the original strap leaf palm that was planted out in 2011  Today 9 years later its my fastest growing palm, palmate or pinnate.  The seeds attract swarms of birds in fall so if I fail to collect seed its gone in a few days of the fall migration.  Hopefully those eaten seeds end up out there in florida somewhere.  The rains this summer were again profific, most rain Ive ever seen.  I wouldnt be surprised if it was 20" in 3 weeks in mid august early sept, much of the grass was killed off in part shade areas.  Here are 2 pics, just before planting from a 7 gallon pot(correction earlier description was 15 gallon), and now in sept 2020.  As a seedling it was obviously a beast as you can see.  The eave of the house is ~11'(10-12' ceilings inside).Causiarum_sept2020n2.thumb.jpg.6a6c9cfcecd8c0bbaf3d8010f0c9e702.jpg

causiarumJuly2011in7gal.thumb.jpg.84627984ddef62757969e53c3808c6da.jpg

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Palmfarmer

Looks amazing. I had a couple of seedlings that i planted behind my house in the street and of course someone stole them among some date palms and fruit trees i planted. police set up a trap next day and caught 8 people trying to steal plants from that same place and around.

Edited by Palmfarmer

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Fallen Munk

That is one impressive palm.  Been looking for seeds and wouldn't mind having some of those genetics!  Thanks for sharing your potting and fertilizing methods.

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BrockD
On 5/1/2020 at 6:40 AM, sonoranfans said:

without accumulated hardness scale

Hi Sonoran what does this mean?

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sonoranfans
On 11/17/2020 at 11:26 AM, Reyes Vargas said:

Do you mean red seeds like this?  This is a picture of one of my palms in fruit.  When you get seeds from your palm I would be interested in buying some.

20201108_075425.jpg

 

 

10 hours ago, BrockD said:

Hi Sonoran what does this mean?

hardness is oxidized Mg, Ca that comes from fertilization and also from the water you water with.  Rain has no Mg or Ca but tap water often does have plenty.  IYOu try to rise it out as best you can by flooding the pots periodically, much excess water.  Humic acid is also very efficient at helping remove these oxides.  The problem with these oxides is when sufficiently accumulated, they repel water and also inhibit solubility of NPK.  New soil allows the roots to grow into soil with no accumulated hardness.  In the ground it tends to rise away in rain but I also use humic acid there to prevent excessive buildup from irrigation and from fertilizer.

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