Jump to content
Jake

Confusion about Coconut Palm hardiness

Recommended Posts

Jake

So I’m planning on moving to the Emerald Coast after I finish my EMT-P. From what I’ve seen, it’s mostly Cabbage Palms, Canary Island Dates, Windmills, and some California Fan Palms. 

The area seems to have most everything I want, but I find it slightly upsetting that Cocoa’s cannot grow there! I did some research on the subject and found that Pensacola and Panama City are both 9a USDA zones. Not surprising at all.

Now this is what throws me off; Multiple websites I have seen say that Coconut Palms are “..great for growing from 9a to 11..” Is this information just plain wrong? I’m just confused as to why no one would plant these in the panhandle if they are able..?

Thanks for your time,

- Jake

0CCCB73B-ABF4-4113-95CC-7A6D2BF00556.png

10746811-8B73-4FEC-A853-E57801A4084B.jpeg

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit

Yes, that information is plain wrong and sadly there's no chance of them growing in the panhandle. Pinellas County is the furthest north they'll grow on the Gulf and even there everything is under 30yrs old. They're really warm end 10a palms, although they might survive for a decade in 9b between harsh winters. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kinzyjr

Welcome to the forum, @Jake!

Not sure who is listing coconuts as a "9a" palm, but that's certainly not reality.  My assigned zone is 9b and I have 4 of them.  I cover them so that they will not struggle to recover in the summer and will look really nice by the end of May or June, depending on our winter.  As Red mentioned above, you're talking St. Petersburg or further south and hugging the coast until you get to the southern third of the state on the west coast, and from the barrier islands near Cocoa Beach hugging the coast until roughly Lake Okeechobee on the east coast.  To give you a rough idea of how drastic the difference is between St. Petersburg and the coastal panhandle, look at some of the averages and record lows:

201809180745_CompareStPeteFtWalton.png

@RedRabbit I think the Jamaican Talls at Kopsick are pre-1989 (at or above 30 years old).  If that is incorrect, please let me know.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Walt

RE:  From what I’ve seen, it’s mostly Cabbage Palms, Canary Island Dates, Windmills, and some California Fan Palms. 

You've pretty much answered your own question.  I concur with the other posters. 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill H2DB

   As in Real Estate , it is  Location , Location , Location .

 

One thing to have a body of water on the  South of you , compared to having a having the same on the North side .

Most real freezes are accompanied by pretty good winds , even at night . The Gulf won't help very much under that

scenario , since the winds will be generally from the North .  

Pinellas on the west coast , and coastal Brevard on the east coast , are the real limits .

Some variability inland , as it is possible to be on the south side of a body of water there , and depending on the size 

of that body , a variably sized microclimate happens .

Still even that effect is limited by the location and size of the body of water , and Urban influence or not, elevation , etc .

Its been much discussed here .   try the search function .

Good luck .

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmaceae
7 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Welcome to the forum, @Jake!

Not sure who is listing coconuts as a "9a" palm, but that's certainly not reality.  My assigned zone is 9b and I have 4 of them.  I cover them so that they will not struggle to recover in the summer and will look really nice by the end of May or June, depending on our winter.  As Red mentioned above, you're talking St. Petersburg or further south and hugging the coast until you get to the southern third of the state on the west coast, and from the barrier islands near Cocoa Beach hugging the coast until roughly Lake Okeechobee on the east coast.  To give you a rough idea of how drastic the difference is between St. Petersburg and the coastal panhandle, look at some of the averages and record lows:

201809180745_CompareStPeteFtWalton.png

@RedRabbit I think the Jamaican Talls at Kopsick are pre-1989 (at or above 30 years old).  If that is incorrect, please let me know.

You are correct, the coconuts at Kopsick are pre '89, actually planted in the early '80's as I am the one who picked them up from Paul Drumond in Miami, so those are my palms as I also planted them!

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kinzyjr
1 minute ago, Palmaceae said:

You are correct, the coconuts at Kopsick are pre '89, actually planted in the early '80's as I am the one who picked them up from Paul Drumond in Miami, so those are my palms as I also planted them!

You get a tip of the cap from me for that wonderful piece of history.  Thank you!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmaceae
13 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

You get a tip of the cap from me for that wonderful piece of history.  Thank you!

Thank you! I was honored to be part of Kopsick in the '80's, and it has grown so much in the last 30 years! 

 

13 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

You get a tip of the cap from me for that wonderful piece of history. 

 

13 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

You get a tip of the cap from me for that wonderful piece of history.  Thank you!

7 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Welcome to the forum, @Jake!

Not sure who is listing coconuts as a "9a" palm, but that's certainly not reality.  My assigned zone is 9b and I have 4 of them.  I cover them so that they will not struggle to recover in the summer and will look really nice by the end of May or June, depending on our winter.  As Red mentioned above, you're talking St. Petersburg or further south and hugging the coast until you get to the southern third of the state on the west coast, and from the barrier islands near Cocoa Beach hugging the coast until roughly Lake Okeechobee on the east coast.  To give you a rough idea of how drastic the difference is between St. Petersburg and the coastal panhandle, look at some of the averages and record lows:

201809180745_CompareStPeteFtWalton.png

@RedRabbit I think the Jamaican Talls at Kopsick are pre-1989 (at or above 30 years old).  If that is incorrect, please let me know.

You are correct, the coconuts at Kopsick are pre '89, actually planted in the early '80's as I am the one who picked them up from Paul Drumond in Miami, so those are my palms as I also planted them!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chatta

Heres the aforemnetioned coconut palms before the brutal cold front of early 2018 

pIMG_0751.jpg

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chatta

Even ones planted right on the beach got hit hard by this years winter, these are in Madeira Beach, then the next one is from Dunedin. And then Tampa
 

20180321_194033.jpg

20180616_193802e.jpg

20180430_130749.jpg

20180430_130842.jpg

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit
8 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

You are correct, the coconuts at Kopsick are pre '89, actually planted in the early '80's as I am the one who picked them up from Paul Drumond in Miami, so those are my palms as I also planted them!

Wow, that's news to me. I was always under the impression they were planted in 1990 due to this post: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/24450-how-far-n-in-florida-can-coconut-palms-reliably-grow/#comment-408440

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit

While we're on this subject, I'm curious how many coconuts survived the 80s on Anna Maria. I know some did, but there aren't many left now due to development.

Further south I know of at least one or two pre-80s coconuts on Lido Key and there are few on Casey Key that could be pre-80s. As a whole though, I can't really point to anywhere with pre-80s coconuts in abundance until you get to Boca Grande. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmaceae
10 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Wow, that's news to me. I was always under the impression they were planted in 1990 due to this post: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/24450-how-far-n-in-florida-can-coconut-palms-reliably-grow/#comment-408440

Tom P. (Palmateer) wrote that post and he is the one I worked with at Kopsick, but I got those coconuts from Paul Drummond in Miami in the early '80's but they were planted before the '89 freeze. I remember we planted them at the city nursery before we put them in Kopsick to get some size on them before they were planted permanently at Kopsick. Even if I am wrong about the dates those coconuts were at the city nursery during some of the 80's freezes.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg

Jake, welcome to PalmTalk. The closest you may get to a coconut in North FL may be a mule palm. Otherwise, you'll have to move W-A-Y south.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr. Coconut Palm

Jake,

Welcome to the forum.  Unfortunately, the info you got is wrong, including the Climate Zone descriptions!  Starting with the Zone 9B and going through the Zone 11B descriptions are incorrect, as each one is a half zone lower than its real designation for temperatures.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GottmitAlex

The Corona, CA coconut would be the exception.  But yes, as a rule, any zone beginning with a 9 or lower is Kaput for Kokonuts

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GottmitAlex

I just turned on the lights on the garten. After 9 months. This is for demonstration purposes only. The weather is at 69F. However, I wanted to show how to direct the brood lamps. 85% soil, 15% coco.   

If only one coco is involved, it is feasable. However, as in my case, 5-6 cocos, it may get expensive.

 

20180925_234719-2656x1494.jpg

20180925_234705-2656x1494.jpg

20180925_234731-2656x1494.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GottmitAlex

Just an example with the Red Tahiti dwarf. 

I.hope this is instructive.

Gute nacht. 

20180926_000248.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JLM

Thats ok im trying to raise 2 queen palms through the already rough winter we have had in Pensacola, it has already dipped below freezing here 2 times already, and has frosted 3-4 times. One of my queens is struggling, it has taken on some frost damage. And yes, all you really see around here are different varieties of fan palms and cabbage palms, not very tall. Maybe 10-20 feet tall at max. You also see some date palms down around the coastal regions, but other than that, thats what you can expect. Sago palms are also great here, they are everywhere! But they are deadly to pets so be careful.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Merlyn2220

If you are on the South or SouthEast of a large bay that would help, so Destin might have a better chance than Valparaiso or Fort Walton Beach.  Destin and Fort Walton show the same record highs and lows, but that's because they are probably both taken from the airport in Fort Walton.   As an alternative to the Cocos, you *might* be able to grow a Beccariophoenix Alfredii in a protected location.  It would probably get wiped out in a bad year, but may survive a few mild winters up there.  I don't know if anyone here has tried them that far North,  but there's a lot of freeze data here.  It looks like they *might* survive a very protected 9a winter, but it would take a lot of effort...sorta like people here working hard to make Cocos survive in Central FL.

 

Edited by Merlyn2220
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tropicdoc

Gotta get creative. My coconut alternatives for 9a are 4 butia x parajubaea hybrids. Yes they will never be mistaken for cocos by palm enthusiasts but they give a coconut vibe to my garden. Mine are still young. Here’s one in “the jungle”

D3F9DDF0-4D25-4FA7-8BDA-707A4DA0EDFC.jpeg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
krishnaraoji88
2 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

Gotta get creative. My coconut alternatives for 9a are 4 butia x parajubaea hybrids. Yes they will never be mistaken for cocos by palm enthusiasts but they give a coconut vibe to my garden. Mine are still young. Here’s one in “the jungle”

 

That looks great! Cant believe you got monstera to grow in 9a. Just change the pavers to lava rock and you'll look like you're in Hawaii!

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tropicdoc

Hah! Thanks! Monstera is hardier than you think. It came back from 18 F under canopy for me. After that, I planted more. That patch saw 27F a few weeks ago and I only lost like 1 or 2 leaves. You should plant some at your place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Estlander
22 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

If you are on the South or SouthEast of a large bay that would help, so Destin might have a better chance than Valparaiso or Fort Walton Beach.  Destin and Fort Walton show the same record highs and lows, but that's because they are probably both taken from the airport in Fort Walton.   As an alternative to the Cocos, you *might* be able to grow a Beccariophoenix Alfredii in a protected location.  It would probably get wiped out in a bad year, but may survive a few mild winters up there.  I don't know if anyone here has tried them that far North,  but there's a lot of freeze data here.  It looks like they *might* survive a very protected 9a winter, but it would take a lot of effort...sorta like people here working hard to make Cocos survive in Central FL.

Oh yes, Destin is well protected. It’s hard to find lows of past freezes for Destin as it gets lumped together with surrounding areas. 
There was almost nothing here in the 80’s, so no one to take temperature readings. We don’t really know how cold it got here in the 80’s freezes. 

Queens are quite common here. Took these yesterday. Those are just a few that were on my way home from work. There are many more. 

74C94E27-9549-4BDD-92BB-46E9788A1ED8.jpeg

9C3C8607-51FB-417F-A6C8-1E40E8A706C1.jpeg

40987D00-A7E1-4B8E-8130-FFE64E22BBD3.jpeg

 

3F53FB99-F442-4E51-9E1C-AEB89966D4E0.jpeg

622747CC-A1C7-4457-BE8B-868CCE17100E.jpeg

597B81E3-08C6-4BA3-ADA1-2AB1236C6993.jpeg

10E1E13A-D01C-4B4A-B564-CC88B52F6792.jpeg

A5A7CB1C-3752-4FE7-B04A-679482191D2F.jpeg

Edited by Estlander
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Estlander

Also took pics of these Philodendrons to give an idea of Destin temperatures. Some of the trunks measured 6ft. long. I understand that Philodendron trunks get cut back somewhere in the very low 20’s or so, and it would take a while to grow all that trunk back, yet there are many massive Philodendrons here. Nothing better than plants to give you an idea of temps. an area experiences.

Anyway, sorry to hijack a thread about Coconuts with Queens and Philodendrons, lol!

D640CCAE-72ED-4FBB-8FD4-E71DECCE1528.jpeg

67DA9D85-86C5-49DC-A565-530AC50BA290.jpeg

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Estlander
1 hour ago, Tropicdoc said:

Hah! Thanks! Monstera is hardier than you think. It came back from 18 F under canopy for me. After that, I planted more. That patch saw 27F a few weeks ago and I only lost like 1 or 2 leaves. You should plant some at your place.

Whoa, that’s good to know! In that case, I’ll try my luck with them too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matthew92

I remember seeing them sell coconut palms at Home Depot in Destin years ago... Unfortunately no way they would survive. Even in last year's record mild winter where it didn't get to freezing in Destin- there was a lot of prolonged chilly weather. A small coconut probably would've not been in very good shape even after that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Estlander
4 hours ago, Matthew92 said:

I remember seeing them sell coconut palms at Home Depot in Destin years ago... Unfortunately no way they would survive. Even in last year's record mild winter where it didn't get to freezing in Destin- there was a lot of prolonged chilly weather. A small coconut probably would've not been in very good shape even after that.

I’ve often wondered if Coconuts would survive in Destin with our winter averages if the area was 10A, and the lowest it ever got here was, lets say, 31F or so.
Would they be able to pull through those couple of months of not very Coconut friendly weather with the help of our otherwise long, hot and humid summers? 

E8A5BA67-D5AF-4837-8BD0-AE949D75F962.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xerarch
10 hours ago, Estlander said:

I’ve often wondered if Coconuts would survive in Destin with our winter averages if the area was 10A, and the lowest it ever got here was, lets say, 31F or so.
Would they be able to pull through those couple of months of not very Coconut friendly weather with the help of our otherwise long, hot and humid summers? 

E8A5BA67-D5AF-4837-8BD0-AE949D75F962.jpeg

Even if it didn’t freeze, that 62/46 in January is a problem, that gives you an average of 54 degrees for January, and December and February are only slightly better. The rule of thumb (freezes aside) is that the average temperature of your coldest month needs to be 60 F to support coconuts. That 54 falls too short, if you don’t get freezes you might push one to survive if your average was a little under 60 as long as you warmed up quickly.
 

That’s exactly the problem in coastal Southern California, it doesn’t freeze but the average temps are a little too low, maybe not an insurmountable problem except it just doesn’t warm up, the cool temps linger and cocos just can’t hang on.  The climate of Destin has a faster warm up in Spring than So Cal, but it is also colder in the coldest months, so even if the fantasy of no/light freezes were a reality I’m afraid you’d still be out of luck. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • sandgroper
      By sandgroper
      G'day all, just wondering what people think about the little coconut I've got as against the big one. The big one is a golden Malay dwarf, they are quite common in northern Western Australia and mine started out about the same size as the small one I have, I planted it 8 years ago now. The small one I bought about 3 years ago, does anyone think it may be a different variety? The reason I ask is that it is much slower growing than the large one, it is also much greener, the large one has a yellow stem to each frond and always has done even when it was small whereas the small palm has a green stem. The small one has never really been looked after over winters as against the big one which has always been protected in some way, up until this winter, yet the small one always seems to sail through winter almost unscathed. The small one I bought from a backyard nursery in the next suburb across from mine, they have lots of tropical plants they sell regularly but I don't know where they get their stock from. Anyway, curious to know what anyone thinks, any opinions are appreciated, cheers.
       
      2 pics of the small palm and 1 pic of the large palm for comparison. 



    • PalmTreeDude
      By PalmTreeDude
      My Needle Palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix) is finally flowering! I won’t get any seed off of it (if it is a female, I’m still not sure what it is yet and don’t know how to tell) because I only have one and there are none close by that I know of. But it is still really cool, and is my first palm to ever flower! 

    • Coasta
      By Coasta
      Is this a Mexican bottle palm? If not what kind of palm is this

    • Monty paws
      By Monty paws
      Hi everyone 
      this is my first ever post and this is my first ever palm! I bought it a month and a half ago and it was lovely and green. 
       
      fast forward 6/8 weeks it’s very unhappy. Any tips on how to revive it- if I can revive it?! 
       
      i didn’t water it much as I thought it was a desert palm. (I’m U.K. based but we didn’t have much rain.) I’ve since learnt it likes moist soil so have been watering more. Is this the correct thing to do? 
       
      desperately want to save it! Also have given it slow release fertiliser to try and help. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. 



    • SoulofthePlace
      By SoulofthePlace
      Please identify this palm. Thank you!

×
×
  • Create New...