New Pritchardia bakerii found in habitat

[colin Peters]

Went for hike today to look for Pritchardia bakeri in Niu Valley, Kulepeamoa ridge, it is next to ours, Kuliouou. from which I have seen these Pritchardia thru binoculars, but never gone over to look for. The trail is much harder to follow than Kulliouou, much more dangerous, and almost no existent . Was so windy in places I got knocked over, so was safer to crouch or crawl, with shear drops on both sides in places. These pictures do not do justice to the beauty of the area. The bakeri ( it keys out to bakeri.) pictured here was just off the trail. The fruit stalks were extremely long. At least 12 feet or more. and some were hanging on ground. Some green seed was present, marbled size, but no mature or decomposing ones on ground and no evidence of reproduction, most likely due to rats. About 50 seed were present. Was in a sea of strawberry guava trees, but there were other natives scattered around underneath. Many other palms were on the cliffs , but only accessable by ropes. So not sure if P. marti or bakeri.

Not sure if Don Hodel or other biologists have been to this site, but the one pictured is very close to the trail.

Was a pure joy to see these, was so stoked to finally make it up to that valley, came around corner and their they were.   aloha

[colin Peters]

not sure if this video clip was down loadable. Shows golden undersides of palm, and height of 8ft trunk with 12-15ft fruit stalks. 

IMG_1748_(1).m4v

[colin Peters]

Looks like all the other pictures I have posted from Kuliouou, but this proves they are in other valleys. May even be more widespread. Someday I want to rope up and count and chart P. bakeri., but can be hard to key out Marti from bakeri., but this one has the tale tale fruit stalk, 12-18ft long and hanging on the ground. The undersides of the leaves are hypno coin golden silver., I was just in awe. We need more of these in gardens. To save the species. 

[quaman58]

Wow Colin, thanks for making the effort. It’s amazing how inaccessible some of these areas are in Hawaii. I was thrilled to be able to add this species to the garden a year or so back, thanks to a friend here on the forum. Still fairly small, but in ground & doing well. Thanks for your efforts in further documenting this species; it’s a distinctive beauty.

[Gonzer]

That's one helluva hike Colin. Thanks for the pics.

[DoomsDave]

Wow, golden treasure in your backyard!

[Palm Tree Jim]

Great habitat pictures!

How far was your hike?

[hbernstein]

You'd think that the rats would be satisfied with eating guava fruit. Sad.

It must have been incredible before the non-native plants took over.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

That trail looks like it could get sketchy.  Great job getting out there, its probably a hike that my healthy fear of (falling from) heights would prevent me from making.   

[Tracy]

15 hours ago, colin Peters said:

I know how difficult it is to really convey the feeling on the trail using a photograph, especially with some trades blowing hard over these ridges.  Like Bret, I too am privileged to host a small P bakeri in my garden.  We can only hope that seed from out of habitat will never be needed.  That said, it is at least nice to know that there will be some plants hopefully thriving outside habitat and available to perpetuate the species if needed.  Thanks for sharing all the photos and info Colin.  Great job of documenting!

[colin Peters]

Thanks everyone. 

Great to see lots of natives up there. The trail is rarely used and not on "youtube", much. Kuliouou is highly published, and groups of tourists go up all day. I spent a bit of time going off the "trail"yesterday by mistake and finding it again. There is a lot of native forest up there, Ohia, koa, pritchardia etc. but it is being choked out by  strawberry guava. I going to take a small hand saw up next time and try to trim them away for the lone one that I could get to. Hopefully this trail stays the way it is. It is  very hard and dangerous, at least for me. 

There are many palms up at the top part of Niu Valley, sticking straight out of the vertical cliff and curving upwards in a u shape. I took pictures, but basically could not distinguish them. These are pretty much protected from the pigs, but not the rats. The large group in the second to last picture was right close to the trail, but it was way to steep, (even though dosent look like it), one slip and its a straight vertical drop. 

Harvey there is fossil evidence that the hills and bottoms of the valleys were once covered in Pritchardia. 

Jim, not sure of the distance, it was a new trail for me, so lots of looking around.,but over 2 hours up and just over hour down. 

Much Aloha

Colin 

[akamu]

Mahalo  for all you do for this species . Great pictures of a beautiful pritchardia keep  up the good work and be safe up there

[knell]

well that is just fantastic, thank you for the photos and video. I know what it's like trying to get into Pritchardia habitat mauka on the islands, and it is no easy trek. 

On 9/5/2018, 6:51:15, colin Peters said:

Looks like all the other pictures I have posted from Kuliouou, but this proves they are in other valleys. May even be more widespread. Someday I want to rope up and count and chart P. bakeri., but can be hard to key out Marti from bakeri., but this one has the tale tale fruit stalk, 12-18ft long and hanging on the ground. The undersides of the leaves are hypno coin golden silver., I was just in awe. We need more of these in gardens. To save the species. 

is the peduncle length conclusive, diagnostically? i have seen photos by Hodel of martii where the inflorescences  extend way way way far out. What catches my eye is that the ridges in the leaves seem to be deeper in bakeri. Sometimes it feels like the more I learn about Pritchardia, the less I know about Pritchardia 

Photo by Don Hodel

[colin Peters]

Thanks knell,

i was basing my conclusion when comparing the similarities to the Kuliouou  group of P. bakeri  Hodel has pictured in his book Loulu. Which I have touched and looked and studied 

at for quite a while, but thats all I have to base it on, and also to the key in his book  The one you have shown in the Hodel picture, is that Bakeri or Marti? That looks Bakeri to me, but Bakeri  is a fairly recent new specie, and since been seperated from Marti.

I sent a couple of the Niu Valley pictures to Don Hodel, saying I have found a Bakeri in that valley and he replied thanks for sending, but didnʻt comment that they werenʻt bakeri and/or marti. 

aloha

Colin 

[colin Peters]

Shot of a couple palms way below the single one I have shown pictures of at top of ridge by trail. Much more vertical and curving upward.  Pretty cool how they adapt to the environment. Maybe pigs avoid this steep slope in favor of easier digging. Which there were signs of at top.

[Kokioula]

Beautiful palms and habitat! 3 hr is a fast round trip. Mahalo for sharing!!

[knell]

4 hours ago, colin Peters said:

Thanks knell,

i was basing my conclusion when comparing the similarities to the Kuliouou  group of P. bakeri  Hodel has pictured in his book Loulu. Which I have touched and looked and studied 

at for quite a while, but thats all I have to base it on, and also to the key in his book  The one you have shown in the Hodel picture, is that Bakeri or Marti? That looks Bakeri to me, but Bakeri  is a fairly recent new specie, and since been seperated from Marti.

I sent a couple of the Niu Valley pictures to Don Hodel, saying I have found a Bakeri in that valley and he replied thanks for sending, but didnʻt comment that they werenʻt bakeri and/or marti. 

aloha

Colin 

Ah, i agree that your photos look like what is known as bakeri, in my opinion. I study the Loulu book often, and really the only diagnostic that works in my mind is the location. As i mentioned, the Hodel photo is labeled as martii and is from the review of Pritchardia shortly before the book came out. Once you've seen the various intermediate forms of martii, it almost feels like bakeri and arecina could be subspecies, and beccariana, woodii, lanigera, could be grouped, all of the complexes, etc... it just comes down to if you're a "lumper", "splitter", or "morphotyper", i suppose. 

i am not surprised that Hodel didn't want to confirm or deny an ID, without seeing it in person. Conclusively IDing a Pritchardia outside of a known location is tricky without busting out the genetic data, which has been alluded to being "lose", leading to the wide range of variations within species. 

There are two mature martii in the garden here that have taken on very different forms (they both have mostly flat leaves and dense gray lepidia and thats where the similarities cease),  two others that came in as "green martii", and a few young bakeri. The beccariana in the garden look different to the ones in habitat, and look different to the ones i've seen growing in other gardens.... and dont even get me started on the cultivation abnormalities of the mutant napaliensis, which can even cluster.

Just when i thought Licuala was going to drive me crazy, Pritchardia are just plain unfair sometimes 

Edited September 8, 2018 by knell
i amm not tyype so good

[colin Peters]

knell, 

Even in the environment, same species can appear and grow differently depending on the conditions. Have seen pictures of marti in a wet, wind protected valley floor and theyare tall and huge, and then the ones at the top of these ridges are stunted and appear to be different palms. Then put them in a garden with lots of fertilizer and consistent water and well, different again. Then you have bakeri, and marti all in the same ridge and area, and is so hard to tell apart, with them being constantly pushed down by the extreme windy conditions. I agree with you, kinda have to go by location. I would think expensive genetic testing is the only way to key these out.

Was cool to see the crazy gold/silver lepidia on the single one I was able to get to, had to rival viscosa, it had the most on any of the palms I have seen in this area, Oh what I wouldnʻt give to have one of that size and beauty in my garden.  

aloha

[knell]

@colin Peters

So true...! Pritchardia are amazing and easily one of my favorite genera. The lepidia on the leaves in your photos is stunning, like something out of a dreamscape.

Thank you for getting out there and taking quality habitat photos! I went and explored an area of Ola'a and Waiakea that i had never been to today, but mostly found hazardous waste, garbage and animal bones (horse jaws with reins still attached), unfortunately. Why the locals feel the need to drive all the way out into the forest to dump is beyond me, it seems like it would take less effort to do the right thing and dispose of that stuff properly. 

 

 

a literal "sign of the times"

[colin Peters]

Helicopter today with cable and basket. To bring an injured/lost hiker(s), from the Kuliouou ridge trail area. This is why it is not so good for tourists to go on "youtube" and find a trail to hike. Sure it is warm here, but up there it gets cold at night and there are shear drop offs. Stay on the trail .. There are hard and challenging areas on the more remote trails. Lucky that the Pritchardia areas are not user friendly., especially Niu Valley trail. 

aloha

[Big Eye]

On 9/7/2018 at 11:27 AM, knell said:

well that is just fantastic, thank you for the photos and video. I know what it's like trying to get into Pritchardia habitat mauka on the islands, and it is no easy trek. 

is the peduncle length conclusive, diagnostically? i have seen photos by Hodel of martii where the inflorescences  extend way way way far out. What catches my eye is that the ridges in the leaves seem to be deeper in bakeri. Sometimes it feels like the more I learn about Pritchardia, the less I know about Pritchardia 

Photo by Don Hodel

I didn't know bakeri had flower stalks that long. Nice. Would you say that bakeri is most similar to hardyi? Also, I just read in another thread that you work with Jeff. I will be stopping by tomorrow to pick up some stuff! Hope to see you there!