Washingtonia Robusta

[Brad1234565 0]

Hi,

Please help, I have three Washingtonia Robusta, I have researched online as much as I can but am seeing so much conflicting information.

I brought 2 Washingtonia Robusta or mexican fan palms, and one pot had two growing in one, so I hosed down the root ball and untangled the roots and re potted, the two I split are in smaller 36 cm pots, and one I put into a large 60 cm barrel pot. They came 100cm in height, and looked nice and healthy. as soon as I re-potted them they immediately flopped over and the fronds all closed up.  the soil mix I looked up and mixed john innes no.3 and half all purpose compost, which was what recommended on a video I watched. I got a bag of miracle grow enriched compost , which I have since found out can give the roots burn due to slow realized fertilizer in the soil. the plants are looking really bad. I don't have a clue what to do, I read something that it could be transplant shock so bare with it, somethings saying to water it every day some saying to let the soil dry.

Please any advise would be really appreciated, Just want them to be health as possible.

 

I am in the south of the UK so the climate should be fine for them until winter when I was plant to bring them in the house.

[Rickybobby 806]

That soil doesn’t look well draining. Do your searches on here for good potting mixes. Also that looks like a wooden pot. Does it have lots of holes on the bottom? I’m no pro but have killed a couple palms with these mistakes also I’m not sure about the root ball but that pot may be a little large as well 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Rickybobby

[Brad1234565 0]

Thanks for the advise will have a look now and try and improve soil , the wooden pot has one hole at the bottom I put a load of crushed up plastic pots at the bottom as well to help with drainage, might be worth drilling some holes in the bottom to then. better soil and more drainage holes I will try then deffo want to make sure I get it right as wasn't sure how well they responded to being re-potted. Any idea how often i should be watering them in this state if i get the drainage better?
 

[kbob11 16]

I did the same thing.  I put mine in too large of a pot and over watered.  This smothered the roots.  

[Pal Meir 4,695]

At first in tiny coconut fibre pots filled with cacti soil, then in small Ø12cm H12cm plastic pots:

 

[PalmatierMeg 3,563]

Your pot is too large and your soil looks like sludge (this must be my day for sludge). And you are probably overwatering esp. as you are fast heading into winter. Ditch the compost and add things to improve drainage, i.e. perlite or something like that. Pal Meir knows all additives in Europe to improve drainage.

[maxum2610 108]

I've grown many of these from seed, and I can confirm that the soil they're in right now will kill them for sure. This soil mix is forcing the water up to the root ball causing root rot. In a natural draining environment, the palm will seek water in the ground with its roots down into the ground until it finds water. This is why you need a fast draining mix for the roots. In so doing the palm can regulate its own water needs. What I recommend, as these palms need a lot, and I mean a LOT of water, is to replace the soil with 100% Expanded Clay Pebbles and place in a saucer filled with 2-3cm of water depending on pot height (put a little bit of liquid palm fertilizer in the water). Living in Belgium, my climate is similar to yours, and this has worked well for me. When the palm picks up, you can switch to a soil based mix with bark, perlite etc.

[Pal Meir 4,695]

24 minutes ago, maxum2610 said:

I've grown many of these from seed, and I can confirm that the soil they're in right now will kill them for sure. This soil mix is forcing the water up to the root ball causing root rot. In a natural draining environment, the palm will seek water in the ground with its roots down into the ground until it finds water. This is why you need a fast draining mix for the roots. In so doing the palm can regulate its own water needs. What I recommend, as these palms need a lot, and I mean a LOT of water, is to replace the soil with 100% Expanded Clay Pebbles and place in a saucer filled with 2-3cm of water depending on pot height (put a little bit of liquid palm fertilizer in the water). Living in Belgium, my climate is similar to yours, and this has worked well for me. When the palm picks up, you can switch to a soil based mix with bark, perlite etc.

These Phoenix reclinata seedlings are potted in that »mix« you recommended above: 100% crushed LECA (in 6cm pots):

[Brad1234565 0]

Thanks for the knowledge and advise everyone very helpful, l really appreciate it!

I have moved into smaller pots now and made a better soil mix up from soil mix recommendations on this forum.

I used:

30% john inns No.3

20% top soil

25% pertile & Vermiculite

25% quarts sand

they are in a pretty poor condition I hope they survive,

Pal Meir great pictures, wow they can really grow pretty big in small pots! do you think this pot size and mix will be okay?

Its raining hard today and is at 18*C, In the state that they are in the pictures below with the new mix how often should I be watering them do you think and would it be helpful to bring them inside until they look a bit more healthy?

Maxum2610, I have only just seen the message or would have tried that first,  do you think its worth getting palm fertilizer and giving them some in there pots ?

 

[maxum2610 108]

From what I see (and I don't want to be unkind), I believe you've traded one sludge for another.

30% john inns, 20% top soil, 25% quarts sand = sludge

25% pertile & Vermiculite => OK

 

What you want to do is:

1) use a smaller and TALLER pot, like in this picture of my waggies and others:like the ones in

2) use a very well draining soil mix or (entschuldigung Pal for using mix here ;) pure Expanded Clay Pebbles since they don't bring the water up to the root ball in any significant manner via absorption. Examples of well draining mix is this:

=> 1/4 coco husk, 1/4 coco coir, 1/4 large size pumice (used for bonsai culture), 1/4 perlite. You can leave out the coir if you want super draining;

=> OR lookup Pal Meirs secret mix with Seramis (1/3 Seramis, 1/3 fine pine bark, 1/3 blaton => crushed expanded clay pebbles). If you need a source for the ingredients, just ask;

=> OR just use 100% Expanded Clay Pebbles for now given the condition of your palm;

3) for washingtonia of the size yours are, put them (when they are in a very good draining mix ONLY) in a bottom of water with some liquid fertilizer, as in the picture below:

 

In due time you will get this:

good luck.

 

[PalmatierMeg 3,563]

Um, why is one of your repotted Washies sitting in a larger pot of sludge? The sludge negates any benefits of the repot. Also, no fertilizer until at least next spring, assuming your palms live until then. You will soon head into winter, not a time to be fertilizing. Throwing fertilizer is not a fix-all for palm problems and may cause many of them to get worse.

[Pal Meir 4,695]

If I remember correctly I used in the past cacti soil (with coarse sand) for Washies; as they were very easy growers I needed no special mix. Here some antique pics of Washies geminated in Hamburg in February & March 1972 and 2 years later:

[maxum2610 108]

10 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Um, why is one of your repotted Washies sitting in a larger pot of sludge? The sludge negates any benefits of the repot. Also, no fertilizer until at least next spring, assuming your palms live until then. You will soon head into winter, not a time to be fertilizing. Throwing fertilizer is not a fix-all for palm problems and may cause many of them to get worse.

Not sure which repotted Washies you're refering to? These have been sitting in those pots since they were little seedlings. The ones on the left in the third picture are not Washies, but Livistona chinensis. All these small palms are sitting in a mix of pine tree bark and expanded clay pebbles. The bottom 1/3 of the pot is filled with only expanded clay pebbles so the water doesn't seep up to the root ball. I think this can hardly be called sludge. These plants, as you should be able to tell from their size, are many years old, and yes, always standing in water. I fail to see why, after all these years, they should suddenly decide to start to rot and go "belly up" as they say. Also, I'm not sure if you're expecting an early freeze where you are, but here (and in most parts of the UK I should think), we have at least 2 months of decent weather left (assuming no freak weather fronts). And possibly more with a bit of luck. Seems to me plenty of time for some more fertilizer, as I've always done. By the look of the palms I don't think they mind, do you? As to the standing in water bit: I know that all of us have been told from an early age on, that leaving your plants standing in water is a no-no. They will die for sure. Surely a misconception propagated by a pre victorian botanist who didn't know the difference between a daffodil and a palm tree. Point is, all plants are not the same, and you well know palm trees are more closely related to grasses than to actual trees. That being the case, many of these can be safely left standing in water without any adverse effects. In fact I've even found it to be beneficial in that water is an excellent temperature buffer. Point of this all is my advice to Brad1234565 is simply this (again): use a smaller pot and fill it with something that won't absorb the water all the way to the root ball (see previous post). If my methods offend you, too bad. I believe that the palms in the pictures speak for themselves. And then you haven't even seen the tropical ones in the green house (some of them also standing in water ;).

By the way Brad1234565, if you want some Washi seeds, let me know I have plenty. Always good for some experimentation.

[PalmatierMeg 3,563]

@maxum2610, maybe I misinterpreted what I saw or looked at the wrong photo.

[Brad1234565 0]

On 8/31/2018, 7:53:46, maxum2610 said:

From what I see (and I don't want to be unkind), I believe you've traded one sludge for another.

30% john inns, 20% top soil, 25% quarts sand = sludge

25% pertile & Vermiculite => OK

 

What you want to do is:

1) use a smaller and TALLER pot, like in this picture of my waggies and others:like the ones in

2) use a very well draining soil mix or (entschuldigung Pal for using mix here ;) pure Expanded Clay Pebbles since they don't bring the water up to the root ball in any significant manner via absorption. Examples of well draining mix is this:

=> 1/4 coco husk, 1/4 coco coir, 1/4 large size pumice (used for bonsai culture), 1/4 perlite. You can leave out the coir if you want super draining;

=> OR lookup Pal Meirs secret mix with Seramis (1/3 Seramis, 1/3 fine pine bark, 1/3 blaton => crushed expanded clay pebbles). If you need a source for the ingredients, just ask;

=> OR just use 100% Expanded Clay Pebbles for now given the condition of your palm;

3) for washingtonia of the size yours are, put them (when they are in a very good draining mix ONLY) in a bottom of water with some liquid fertilizer, as in the picture below:

 

In due time you will get this:

good luck.

 

 

 

Thanks for the advise your palms look great, nice pond too!

I have just ordered some of the expanded clay pebbles, will try them in a taller small pot, cant seem to find any taller pots on amazon, I can check store later on I will keep them in a tray of water as you suggest mixed with some fert.

I have two types of fert ones generic house plant food NPK: 10.6:4.4:1.7 and the other is miracle grow 6-5-5 , Not sure whats better of if either is any good?

 

I will try expanded clay 100% tall pots tray of water and liquid fert until they are looking alive again then switch to the "1/4 coco husk, 1/4 coco coir, 1/4 large size pumice (used for bonsai culture), 1/4 perlite."

a good place to get the 1/4 coco husk, 1/4 coco coir, 1/4 large size pumice would a great help?

Also would love some Washi seeds, that would be great! just really want to grow some nice big healthy palm trees.

[maxum2610 108]

Hate to post this link because I'm not happy with them at the moment...but I can't find another good source short term. Pots and fertiliser:

http://rarepalmseeds.com/wholesale.shtml#fertilizer

Tip: you could save a lot of money by using 1L or 2L plastic bottles (like Coca Cola), and make a lot of holes in the bottom, so that the water runs out immediately, Leave just enough bottom plastic to keep soil or Leca in. I use the 0.5L water bottles for Licuala grandis, Arenga engleri, Howea forsteriana, etc... cheap and effective. Tall yet small pots. Why? In a large pot water is difficult to regulate, so we use small pots, and repot as the palm grows. Tall pots are better, as the water sinks to the bottom, ensuring the root ball does not stay water logged.

Coco husk could be hard to find or cost prohibitive. Else use Leca (Expanded clay), fine pine bark, lava, and such experiment and see what works for you.

PM me for the seeds.

 

[Brad1234565 0]

On 9/4/2018, 9:10:13, maxum2610 said:

Hate to post this link because I'm not happy with them at the moment...but I can't find another good source short term. Pots and fertiliser:

http://rarepalmseeds.com/wholesale.shtml#fertilizer

Tip: you could save a lot of money by using 1L or 2L plastic bottles (like Coca Cola), and make a lot of holes in the bottom, so that the water runs out immediately, Leave just enough bottom plastic to keep soil or Leca in. I use the 0.5L water bottles for Licuala grandis, Arenga engleri, Howea forsteriana, etc... cheap and effective. Tall yet small pots. Why? In a large pot water is difficult to regulate, so we use small pots, and repot as the palm grows. Tall pots are better, as the water sinks to the bottom, ensuring the root ball does not stay water logged.

Coco husk could be hard to find or cost prohibitive. Else use Leca (Expanded clay), fine pine bark, lava, and such experiment and see what works for you.

PM me for the seeds.

 

Great, I will try the 1L & 2l bottle idea to save some money.

I have got the palms in some smaller pots at the moment in  100% expanded clay sitting in a shallow dish of water so maybe they will come back.

will PM you now.

[TexasColdHardyPalms 2,448]

The soil wasn't the problem, it was the untangling of the roots that caused the setback.  You can grow Washingtonia in just about any soil.  

[Rickybobby 806]

32 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The soil wasn't the problem, it was the untangling of the roots that caused the setback.  You can grow Washingtonia in just about any soil.  

I have one in my nursery that slipped through the cracks. It looked like the soil was moist but it broke down I removed it from its pot and the soil was as hard as concrete I had to break it up and soak it and re potted. Anyway you would have never known there was an issue. The plant was perfectly healthy just not as big as the rest 

[Padraic 1]

Hi Brad1234565, how was your effort to have your palm. I have a similar situation. Would you share your result? Do clay pebbles help you with water under? 
My situation similar to yours except worst, I messed with the root, transplant shock. A commercial cactus/Palm soil mix with little drainage.

Padraic 

Edited March 15 by Padraic
fonts look too big

[Brad1234565 0]

Hi,  I had three palms in this situation 2 Didn’t pull through one is saved I did the clay pebbles and water advise. I think it depends how shocked they were. Deffo worth a go.