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necturus

cold hardy palms in houston

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RJ
1 hour ago, meteorologistpalmguy said:

From left to right Sabal Blackburniana, Uresana, and Riverside... along with plenty of weeds.

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Curious of your thoughts on these three. I have a riverside, still need to get a Ureesana. How do the speed (or lack there of) compare? 

 

Great collection. I'm pretty well convinced I'm going to try a Jubaea. Just need to get my hands on one 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@meteorologistpalmguy great collection of palms. Of course your JxS is a knockout prolly top 5 palms for me. The fact your growing A.Cohune and Jubaea is incredible definitely gonna try both now =) Awesome garden 

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meteorologistpalmguy
13 hours ago, RJ said:

Curious of your thoughts on these three. I have a riverside, still need to get a Ureesana. How do the speed (or lack there of) compare? 

 

Great collection. I'm pretty well convinced I'm going to try a Jubaea. Just need to get my hands on one 

Uresana fastest, then Riverside, then Blackburniana.  That being said they all seem to be speeding up now (all three have been in the ground for 3 years).  Mexicana still seems faster than all three of these.    

The Jubaea has been a surprisingly easy/care free grower here.   For all the talk of them not being able to handle humidity, that certainly hasn't been an issue yet for mine.  Been in the ground for 3 years now and is also picking up speed.   It is planted in a bit of a mound to keep any standing water away from it.  Was concerned it would have issues when we got 30" of rain in Hurricane Harvey, but it didn't seem to care.   I have had major issues with seedlings though, they can't seem to handle the humidity till they are about a 5-15 gallon size, so buy big to start.

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HtownPalms

I will try to get some pictures of the palms down in Lake Jackson and Freeport. Nothing different than what you will see up in Houston, but they are everywhere. Some of the prettiest Queen palms I have ever seen are down there. They almost look like coconut trees. When I lived in Pearland I thought Queen palms were ugly because most were so straggly. I guess that small temperature difference between Houston and Lake Jackson on those cold winter nights makes a big difference to the overall look and health. 

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Jeff985
9 hours ago, HtownPalms said:

I will try to get some pictures of the palms down in Lake Jackson and Freeport. Nothing different than what you will see up in Houston, but they are everywhere. Some of the prettiest Queen palms I have ever seen are down there. They almost look like coconut trees. When I lived in Pearland I thought Queen palms were ugly because most were so straggly. I guess that small temperature difference between Houston and Lake Jackson on those cold winter nights makes a big difference to the overall look and health. 

I haven’t really spent any time in Pearland other than passing through on the beltway, but the queens I can see from the freeway look really good. I’d rate them up there with the ones I’ve seen in Lake Jackson and Freeport. West and northwest of Pearland they can be pretty straggly. 

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Xenon
On 10/24/2019 at 8:13 PM, HtownPalms said:

I will try to get some pictures of the palms down in Lake Jackson and Freeport. Nothing different than what you will see up in Houston, but they are everywhere. Some of the prettiest Queen palms I have ever seen are down there. They almost look like coconut trees. When I lived in Pearland I thought Queen palms were ugly because most were so straggly. I guess that small temperature difference between Houston and Lake Jackson on those cold winter nights makes a big difference to the overall look and health. 

I still reckon central Houston (610 loop) is warmer than those areas and pretty much the whole metro except for Galveston and maybe parts of the immediate bayfront. Saw plenty of large robust queen palms and pygmy dates in the 6th ward yesterday. 

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SailorBold
On 10/23/2019 at 3:10 PM, meteorologistpalmguy said:

And finally... my personal favorite palm, Jubaea x Syagrus.

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Thats outstanding! Wow that has grown really quick...!!!   Unfortiunately... I dont think they are a good palm for my area.. so I am selling mine.

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RyManUtah
On 10/23/2019 at 4:10 PM, meteorologistpalmguy said:

And finally... my personal favorite palm, Jubaea x Syagrus.

31C94B4B-385C-4ABB-8B96-7359D824A432.jpeg

Outstanding! One of my dream palms. 

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RyManUtah
On 10/23/2019 at 4:10 PM, meteorologistpalmguy said:

 

Edited by Ryagra
Double post

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necturus

This Bismarckia has been at Enchanted Forest in Richmond, TX for a number of years. I am pretty sure it saw both hard freezes a few years back. Temperatures probably bottomed at 20 or maybe 18-19, and it hardly got above freezing for over twenty four hours. The same freeze killed a nearby queen and froze a tall clump of Everglades palm to the ground.

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

I think it's safe to say that established Bizzies are long term palms here. 2018 freeze might have hurt most but just about all of them recovered and are prospering now. 

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Jeff985
7 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I think it's safe to say that established Bizzies are long term palms here. 2018 freeze might have hurt most but just about all of them recovered and are prospering now. 

They’re a lot tougher than they get credit for. Several websites list them as a 10a palm. When I bought it had a tag on it that said 10a if I remember correctly, but they seem to be a solid 9a palm. At least in 9a areas that get plenty of heat. 

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TexasColdHardyPalms

The bismarckia that I have are 100% Texas 9A hardy. Noone in Texas lost the plants that I sold them a few years back but a few of the larger established "florida" bizzy's did die.

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Jeff985
44 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The bismarckia that I have are 100% Texas 9A hardy. Noone in Texas lost the plants that I sold them a few years back but a few of the larger established "florida" bizzy's did die.

In what part of the state did they die. In the Houston area I didn’t see any that died. Even in Katy, which is one of the coldest parts of Houston all the ones I know of survived. Houston is pretty big and spread out, so I can’t speak for all of them, but I’m just wondering are there some growing further north that died. I know you’re in the DFW area. 

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necturus

There was one with a few feet of trunk that died in my neighborhood. I have posted the two much larger ones in the same neighborhood before that survived with near complete defoliation.  I often wonder if the smaller one could have survived with surgery.

Joe, I did loose a small one of yours in the freeze a couple years ago.  It was covered in a frost cloth. Regardless, I still think these are great palms for our area.

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Jeff985

Makes sense. Everything I’ve read and heard says they’re much less cold hardy when they’re small. Until Lowe’s started selling them not long ago I hadn’t seen any small ones planted around here. All the ones I knew of at the time of the 2018 freeze survived, but they were all mature. 

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necturus

Here’s the two I mentioned above, looking great. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

Good looking Bizzies !!!

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Jeff985
34 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Good looking Bizzies !!!

The challenge is finding one that’s not good looking. 

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RJ
On 11/24/2019 at 9:20 AM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The bismarckia that I have are 100% Texas 9A hardy. Noone in Texas lost the plants that I sold them a few years back but a few of the larger established "florida" bizzy's did die.

TCHP are all your bizzies that you sell of the hardier seed source. I see you have some listed on E-bay. 

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Swolte
On 11/24/2019 at 8:20 AM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The bismarckia that I have are 100% Texas 9A hardy. Noone in Texas lost the plants that I sold them a few years back but a few of the larger established "florida" bizzy's did die.

I'll go try some of yours in College station when it warms up again after the winter. Please save me a nice one!
;)

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Yes everything is from that Madagascar seed source. 

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HtownPalms

Nothing exciting, but a few palms at Baybrook Mall. Sorry the pics are cutoff. I was describing palm trunks to someone when I took them. 

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HtownPalms

1st and 2nd pics are CIDP at Dow Chemical plant in Freeport. 

3rd pic is at the Freeport welcome sign.

4th pic is at the Freeport post office. 

 

 

 

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necturus

I like CIDP and date palms, but they may live to regret those purchases. I don't understand why CIDP can survive long term in southern Georgia but tend to die here. I took out my big one a couple years ago and see a lot dying throughout the area. I hope the hybrids are more hardy, as I have a couple CIDP x roebellini hybrids that are growing well.

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Xenon
1 hour ago, necturus said:

I like CIDP and date palms, but they may live to regret those purchases. I don't understand why CIDP can survive long term in southern Georgia but tend to die here. I took out my big one a couple years ago and see a lot dying throughout the area. I hope the hybrids are more hardy, as I have a couple CIDP x roebellini hybrids that are growing well.

The dying is a recent trend (last ~15 years or so), many of the old CIDP around town that survived the 80s rapidly died in the span of a few years around late 2000s/early 2010s.  I think the disease is called Texas Phoenix Palm Decline. For some reason the many large CIDP on Galveston Island seem to have been spared for now. Also recently saw an old CIDP in the East End near Buffalo Bayou. 

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necturus
31 minutes ago, Xenon said:

 The dying is a recent trend (last ~15 years or so), many of the old CIDP around town that survived the 80s rapidly died in the span of a few years around late 2000s/early 2010s.  I think the disease is called Texas Phoenix Palm Decline. For some reason the many large CIDP on Galveston Island seem to have been spared for now. Also recently saw an old CIDP in the East End near Buffalo Bayou. 

We had a nice one in our yard. Had probably twenty feet of trunk. We bought the house a few years ago. It was a big draw for me. At that time it looked good, but it began to decline and was pretty much dead in two years.  We live near Meyerland. It was either TPPD or fusarium. The leaves slowly died from the bottom up until they were all gone.

There is a slightly smaller one across the street that is still kicking it, but I have seen several other dead/dying ones in our neighborhood. They are all big, mature specimens. I suspect smaller ones without much trunk are more resistant.

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HtownPalms

I believe the CIDP's in my pictures were planted in the 50s. There are a ton of them the same size as in my pictures all over the Lake Jackson/ Freeport area. Quite a few big ones in my new hometown of Angleton too. I'm new to Angleton, but have been working at the Chemical plant in Freeport for almost 15 years and I can't remember seeing many if any CIDP's die during that time down there. I don't know why they aren't dying like others further north but I hope they continue to thrive. I will certainly update everyone if it looks like they start dying. 

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Meangreen94z

The large ones in front of Johnson Space Center in South Houston(Clear Lake) have been hit. They’ve replaced several, and several more are in decline. Eventually they’ll figure out it’s a losing battle.

Edited by Meangreen94z

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Jeff985
9 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

The large ones in front of Johnson Space Center in South Houston(Clear Lake) have been hit. They’ve replaced several, and several more are in decline. Eventually they’ll figure out it’s a losing battle.

There are a lot of dying and dead palms in that area. Along NASA Road 1 close to SH 146 all the street plantings (queens, Phoenix, and livistona) are either dead or close to it. It’s getting scary since that’s really close to my house. I talked to someone at a nursery yesterday and he said it’s mostly boring insects, but there have also been several cases of ganoderma. I used a systemic drench on all my palms today. Fingers crossed. 

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Meangreen94z

Clear Lake definitely has aggressive pests. I sold my house South of Pearland off 288, and moved various plants that had never had problems. I’m renting an older home in Clear Lake until I decide what we’re going to do. I’ve lost several large cactus, agave, and other plants. Most of my surviving cactus that looked pristine for years now show signs of mutilation, some heavily. I’ve tried various Systemic drenchs and  trans laminar pesticides and they seem to only briefly work.. Both of my houses had exposed backyards to open green zones. I assumed the pests here were worse because the neighborhood is 40-45 years old, vs. 5 at my old house. The soil had been heavily shifted to build lakes(drainage) and elevate the neighborhood in my previous new build.

Edited by Meangreen94z

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Jeff985

I was advised to drench twice a year. I just drenched all my palms yesterday. I’ll do it again in the spring. 

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Meangreen94z

Yeah, don’t use it on anything in a pot either. I saw a reduction in certain kinds of pests, but I have some kind of microscopic mite that attacks the exterior of cactus and agave leaves. Eventually killing some if not caught in time. I can treat in the middle of an attack and see the damage subside. 2-3 weeks later, sometimes as little as a week during the summer rains, they are attacking something new that I had treated as well. My next house, if in Houston, will have a fence or solid barrier on all corners. No chain link or wrought iron.

Edited by Meangreen94z

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Tropicdoc

Recs for a systemic drench? I’m in a similar climate over here in sola 

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Jeff985
36 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

Recs for a systemic drench? I’m in a similar climate over here in sola 

image.thumb.jpg.e7b87853e95f0dce2c8418fdb0cc2c97.jpgThis is what was recommended to me. 

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Tropicdoc

Hah! I think I have some in the shed! Thanks!

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HtownPalms

Palms at "Rodeo Palms" subdivision. Manvel/ Pearland. 

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HtownPalms

Canary Island Date Palm at an abandoned apartment complex in Angleton along with pics of some Pygmy Date Palms at a business also in Angleton. 

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Meangreen94z

Angleton is close enough to the Gulf Of Mexico that it falls under 9B. I used to live in Manvel in the Lakeland subdivision, I drove by Rodeo Palms everyday. The property tax rate over in that area is extremely high, the early adopters are footing the bill for future development. Alvin ISD way under performs too. I’m glad I’m out.

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Jeff985
12 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

Angleton is close enough to the Gulf Of Mexico that it falls under 9B. I used to live in Manvel in the Lakeland subdivision, I drove by Rodeo Palms everyday. The property tax rate over in that area is extremely high, the early adopters are footing the bill for future development. Alvin ISD way under performs too. I’m glad I’m out.

Angleton is 9a. Going south on 288 9b doesn’t start until Clute. Most of Houston stays warmer during cold events than Angleton. When the next hardiness map is released Angleton will likely move up to 9b like most of this area though. 

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