Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
John in Andalucia

Lavoixia macrocarpa revisited

Recommended Posts

John in Andalucia

Those who've known me on the forum for a number of years may recall that Toby at RPS kindly donated a few Lavoixia macrocarpa seeds for me to experiment on with my de-lidding technique back in 2010. Here's where you can follow that journey: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/25249-lavoixia-macrocarpa/#comment-418781

Well, recently Toby was kind enough to repeat the gesture. This time with five seeds. Upon revealing the embryos however, I discovered that only two of them appeared viable, although in all fairness, for this palm 4/10 would be considered more than acceptable. Wouldn't you agree? 

The embryos were smaller than the last time, and subsequently one of them didn't survive. The remaining seed embryo looks healthy and is forming nicely.

To clarify, the only reason I lost the two seedlings that I managed to sprout back in 2010 was because I met my now wife, and went to Peru for nine months taking the germinated seeds in my luggage, whereby I tried to grow them indoors in one of the driest climates on Earth(!) This time, I have the right artificial growing conditions for raising seedlings, where hopefully this little palm can at least stand a chance. Thank you Toby, for providing the excitement and joy that growing palms brings to so many.

If I can grow it, this little gem is going to be offered to Kew Gardens.  

 

20180802_202648.jpg

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG

John, for the price of this seed, I will be pissed if only 4/10 are good when they arrive. 

Jason, good luck man. Keep me posted. Matt and I are doing it again too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia
6 hours ago, humangenomaproject said:

Just ordered some myself. Len graciously sent me his link on marriedtoplants.com which meticulously describes the de-lidding process (not trivial). http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/the-de-lidding-of-clinosperma-macrocarpa-seed/

De-lidding such rare seeds is by no means a trivial task, I agree. Incidentally, the source of this discussion on PalmTalk started with me prodding a coconut with a paper clip(!) If you've never attempted this technique before, I would strongly advise practicing on some less valuable seeds first.

Here's a link to what I believe is the first topic posted in 2009, entitled: 'Tickling the embryo' - which sounded a bit unscientific (I am not a botanist, btw). So I adopted the name 'de-lidding' - a term coined by forum member Trópico (Frank, from Orlando in Florida) in response to my own results at exposing palm seed embryos: 

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/20844-tickling-the-embryo/

I followed this up with a thread called 'Germinating old palm seeds' - where I probably got carried away, but had great results with Lemurophoenix, Corphya and Jubaea, and later Brahea.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/20973-germinating-old-palm-seeds/#comment-349535

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia
24 minutes ago, LJG said:

John, for the price of this seed, I will be pissed if only 4/10 are good when they arrive. 

Jason, good luck man. Keep me posted. Matt and I are doing it again too. 

Len, I received undersized seeds, but they were graciously donated, so fortunately no cause for complaint.

4 of the 5 seeds were probably 30-40% smaller than I received the first time around.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG
22 hours ago, John in Andalucia said:

Len, I received undersized seeds, but they were graciously donated, so fortunately no cause for complaint.

4 of the 5 seeds were probably 30-40% smaller than I received the first time around.

 

Something gifted, you can’t complain. But when you pay a huge expense for seed, it needs to be thoroughly checked before being sold. I’ll find out soon. Fingers crossed.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg

Cool. I’ll watch them grow vicariously. Keep us posted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia

Six weeks on from germination.. :asleep:

Here you can see the plumule 'splitting' open the button. The process is very slow, having taken a week to get this far since first emerging.

(The seed anchored down to minimise disturbance!)

 

20180913_112331_HDR.jpg

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg

Very cool, John.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG

I got my 30 seed. 5 were good. Possibly 7 total. Totally bummed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
humangenomaproject

Just received ten. Fingers crossed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
knell

i thought i had a more recent picture than this (without a dang hose in the background), but the new leaf is an interesting orange hue

F5748CDB-A316-4449-AAF0-E21541A20B58.thu

  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia

That's very cool, Knell. I was wondering if there weren't a few good specimens in Hawaii. Did you grow it yourself from seed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
knell

@John in Andalucia haha i wish!! this is Jeff/Su Marcus’ work, they have a knack for sprouting the “unsproutable” and bringing holy grail species to seed.

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh-O
25 minutes ago, knell said:

@John in Andalucia haha i wish!! this is Jeff/Su Marcus’ work, they have a knack for sprouting the “unsproutable” and bringing holy grail species to seed.

agreed!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt in SD

Previous photos are the end result of Len and my efforts with Lavoixia (round one).  I feel very lucky to have a single plant.  It's been in the ground a couple months now and seems to be thriving so far.  This winter will be the real test.  I really want to thank John for providing inspiration and instructions on the de-lidding process.  Wouldn't have tried it if he hadn't posted about his successes here.

 

matt 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt in SD

One more photo with better lighting.

IMG_20180903_101032088.jpg

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BS Man about Palms

Thanks for posting Matt!, That palm is SO different looking to any other New Caledonia palm from early on that they appear to be worth all the effort! 

Best of luck to everyone else!!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG

When I got the seed back in 2012 there was a reason I asked Matt to work with me. He is a skilled grower and while I lost my last one this week, one of us can claim success. Now we are trying again. It’s just 6 short years to get these news ones to Matt’s plant size. :(

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia

Week 16 in the life of a Lavoixia macrocarpa...

It was at this stage 7 years ago, that I took 2 seedlings to Peru and witnessed their demise. That won't be happening this time around. 

 

20181125_152115.jpg

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg

John, that's so cool. I'd love to try this species but seeds are too much for my budget. And I fear it won't like my oppressive summers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LJG

John, how deep is that container? Make sure it’s deep as these guys have big roots. 

Matt P and I have 9 going, but they are just buttoning. A ways behind yours. Nice work. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia
16 hours ago, LJG said:

John, how deep is that container? Make sure it’s deep as these guys have big roots. 

Matt P and I have 9 going, but they are just buttoning. A ways behind yours. Nice work. 

High praise.. B) Thanks, Len.

Liner's 5.5" deep. I can slip it into a deeper/wider container when it bottoms out, without any trouble. At this stage, I like to see what's going on, plus it saves space. 

Plenty of humidity this time around, the air temperature between 75F and 79F. It's under artificial light (approx. 5500 lux) for 16 hours a day.

Looking forward to seeing yours and Matt's.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia
21 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

John, that's so cool. I'd love to try this species but seeds are too much for my budget. And I fear it won't like my oppressive summers.

Thanks, Meg. It's even cooler that you've followed my palm endeavours for so long. :D

A financial gamble, that's for sure, but to be the proud owner of a flowering L. macrocarpa? That would be something..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg

I well remember your efforts with the original seedlings and how scarce this palm is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John in Andalucia

Here's a quick update on my C. macrocarpa, still going strong! It got potted up today. ;)

"Three leaves on my Clino, and I'm still rollin' along!"

(10 months)

20190601_094341_HDR.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg

Wonderful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • TheMadScientist
      By TheMadScientist
      THIS IS NO APRIL FOOL'S JOKE, it just happened today.  With permission from the Sullivan Family in Ventura, I have been documenting some of the species start of flowering to when seeds seem to become ripe to harvest during 2021.  Then Mother Nature throws a curve ball.  So. Cal. has been having it's typical DROUGHT, then the rare storm shows up...5 days with about 5 inches of rain coupled with 40-45 mph winds gusting to 50-60 mph and all of the seeds were off this palm, in the street gutter and on the grassy parkway where tiny worms were attacking them.  So many had to be thrown out during the cleaning process at home.  What was left of the fruit rubbed off by hand.  I did do a water soak for 1 day, 2 hour hydrogen peroxide soak to kill buggies and bacteria.  Photo #1 showing seeds just prior to being placed in 20 member community pots where some were 71 deg. F, some were 79 deg. F in my converted ice chests with 40 watt drop lights with lid raised photo #2, some were outdoors going through what nature not lower than 49 deg. F had and some in the garage steady between 50 - 60 deg. F.  Photo #3 & 4 are the 2 seedlings that had just pushed green through to peat/perlite surface, which I took an ice pick to move a little material away for the photo shoot.  The container closest to the light source was 79 deg. F and the container furthest away was 71 deg F.  I will update this thread as the family grows past 2 seedlings.




    • TheMadScientist
      By TheMadScientist
      October 2011, I had purchased this from a "Palm Talker".  It seemed to take a couple of years  before it was showing any growth.  I liked the 24 deg. F low, no weapons, it could take the heat / low humidity I have to deal with.  My current photo is more of a close up as it has a large P.  Theophrasti dominating attention behind it.  The "corn cob on a stick" looking seed pod presented itself last year, but I didn't see any pollen being offered to it.  This year the seed pod was fully developed, but again, I wasn't seeing the pollen contribution.  The last week of September, individual seeds would raise from the cob, then get released.  The seeds collected look like Halloween Candy Corn and that fruit is easily removed.  I had concerns that these would not germinate, but in the last 3 days.....4 of the 21 seeds sown have started The Circle of Life.  7 weeks to germinate in my converted ice chest, 40 watt drop light, lid raised 1" and it sees 80-85 deg. F 24/7 which I water each day due to evaporation.




    • Tracy
      By Tracy
      I pulled some of the purple seeds off my Burretiokentia hapala, cleaned them and dropped them in a zip lock baggy with some damp perlite and sphagnum moss.  I'm using a little heat, wrapping the bag in foil and leaving it on top of my water heater).  I'm curious what typical sprouting time is on this species if anyone has used this technique with this species. 


    • Will
      By Will
      Hey,
      I planted some Sabal minor and Jubaea chilensis seeds around 2 months ago. They havent germinated yet, thats why I would like to ask if I did something wrong. Is it the way I try to germinate them? Maybe the moisture in the box? Do they need light to germinate?
      So many questions 


    • GardnerDylan6a
      By GardnerDylan6a
      Hello I was wondering if anyone knows a good way to germinate Ptychosperma elegans seeds, thanks
×
×
  • Create New...