(Butia X Jubaea) X Syagrus flowering, (X Jubutyagrus?)

[Eric in Orlando]

A couple of the specimens of (Butia odorata X Jubaea chilensis) X Syagrus romanzoffiana here at Leu Gardens have started flowering recently. I got a couple photos yesterday in the rainstorm. These were acquired from Tim Hopper in 2010. This one was planted out in April 2012 from a 3gal. pot. I have heard the name X Jubutyagrus everettii  applied to this hybrid but I don't thing it has ever been formally described.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I assume 100% six stamen?

[sonoranfans]

I had 3 of hoppers "jubutiagrus", gave two away still have one.  The one I have has been very susceptible to moldspotting, I am not a big fan of this hybrid.  Mine is about 10-11' overall and kind of scrawny crowned with a fairly thick trunk.  With hybrids its the luck of the draw, but all 3 of mine showed the susceptibility to mold spot.   Mine has flowered but I wasnt around to see the stalks. 

[Sandy Loam]

Wow, that's a lot of growth for just six years, Eric, and it's already seeding. It looks great too.

[Eric in Orlando]

On 6/7/2018, 4:54:40, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I assume 100% six stamen?

I'm not sure. I was just out there and all the flowers have dropped.

 

 

[Eric in Orlando]

On 6/7/2018, 10:53:42, Sandy Loam said:

Wow, that's a lot of growth for just six years, Eric, and it's already seeding. It looks great too.

We have several planted out. This is probably the largest one. This one was planted in March 2011. It has set fruit for a couple years now but they drop before they mature.

 

 

[Sandy Loam]

Fantastic!  I love this palm.  At the rate it is growig, it may be well overhead soon.  I can't believe that palm is only seven years old. 

Is anyone aware of a source for this hybrid (Butia odorata X Jubaea chilensis) X Syagrus romanzoffiana?  Does anyone sell them?  Tim Hopper has supposedly vanished from PalmTalk and Patric Schaeffer may not sell this particular hybrid (?) Does anyone else have it, and in particular, an IPS member?

Thanks.

 

[5150cycad]

36 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

Fantastic!  I love this palm.  At the rate it is growig, it may be well overhead soon.  I can't believe that palm is only seven years old. 

Is anyone aware of a source for this hybrid (Butia odorata X Jubaea chilensis) X Syagrus romanzoffiana?  Does anyone sell them?  Tim Hopper has supposedly vanished from PalmTalk and Patric Schaeffer may not sell this particular hybrid (?) Does anyone else have it, and in particular, an IPS member?

Thanks.

 

Sent u a pm. 

[Tropicdoc]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2018‎ ‎4‎:‎23‎:‎29‎, sonoranfans said:

I had 3 of hoppers "jubutiagrus", gave two away still have one.  The one I have has been very susceptible to moldspotting, I am not a big fan of this hybrid.  Mine is about 10-11' overall and kind of scrawny crowned with a fairly thick trunk.  With hybrids its the luck of the draw, but all 3 of mine showed the susceptibility to mold spot.   Mine has flowered but I wasnt around to see the stalks. 

I have 2 small specimens of this cross from Patrick and they both have spotting. Was hoping they'd grow out of it.

[sonoranfans]

I have a (BxJ)xJ from patrick that has no spotting issues.  Not sure what is going on with jubutiagrus.  You would think if its a humidity thing, the Jubaea blood would show more sensitivity as syagrus is very good in humidity.

[Eric in Orlando]

I had gotten 10 of these hybrid specimens. Most have grown vigorously, no fungal issues. But several have been more runty and weaker growing. They all looked the same as seedlings. 

[Sandy Loam]

Eric, have any of yours been planted in deep shade?  If so, have they still grown vigorously under those conditions?

[Eric in Orlando]

There is one in moderate/bright shade. It has grown a bit skinnier and a little slower. But it has grown well.

 

 

[sergiskan]

I received two of these from Tim Hopper seven years ago.

One grows fast and healthy, meanwhile the  other one always was looking bad, with black spots and necrotic fronds, direct sun all day, I dig out three years ago. 

 

 

[Sandy Loam]

We're talking about (Butia x Jubaea) x Syagrus, correct?  ..not (Jubaea x Butia) x Syagrus, right?

 

Sergiskan, did you get the impression that your weak grower would have preferred to be in shade?  

Eric, thinks for the info about your "bright shade" xJubutiagrus (if that's what it's called).  If yours is growing in bright shade, perhaps it hasn't been put to the deep shade test that I might be doing if I can get one of these hybrids.  Is it the general consensus that this palm will grow quickly in deep shade?  ....or not?     

 

[Swolte]

Any info on the hardiness of this hybrid?

[Collectorpalms]

I Have one in College Station, from the Tim hopper bunch. its not as nice or vigorous as some of my mules. hardiness about the same, it was blasted this past winter but recovering.

[sergiskan]

On 13/6/2018 0:17:23, Sandy Loam said:

We're talking about (Butia x Jubaea) x Syagrus, correct?  ..not (Jubaea x Butia

 

Sergiskan, did you get the impression that your weak grower would have preferred to be in shade?  

 

 

Hi Sandy.

I’m talking about (ButiaxJubaea)xSyagrus.

my weak one was growing in a sun spot, really in spring and summer It grew well, but in  autumn and winter all the fronds turning necrotic(black areas) and a lot of black spots. 

To me high humidity levels in the soil with cold temps was the cause.(genetic), the other one grows fast and healthy.

It didn’t response to nothing, Ph levels, feeding, nothing, always the same, finally I dig it.

regards.

Edited June 14, 2018 by sergiskan

[5150cycad]

On 6/11/2018, 3:27:46, Tropicdoc said:

I have 2 small specimens of this cross from Patrick and they both have spotting. Was hoping they'd grow out of it.

I bought this one as a (Butia x jubaea) x syagrus years ago from a local grower. I was told it was originally obtained from Patrick Schaffer, which was one of the main reasons I bought it. I have always admired the hybrids he has produced over the years. It has been a slow but steady grower. The palm seems to be getting fatter and fatter but hasn’t put on much height which is surprising since each new frond is noticeably a lot bigger than the last. I have posted before about the spotting on the older leaves since it is not aesthetically pleasing. The consensus at that time was that they were just old dying leaves which I find hard to believe since it appears shortly after the most recent leave has opened. Is this the same type of spotting that others are seeing on this hybrid? If so, any recommendations on a treatment?  It has had this type of spotting for as long as I can remember. It’s weird because this palm throws out very healthy frons all year long. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks 

ps: please excuse the bad haircut. It’s the only way I am able to have this palm in this location. I wish it would get overhead already.  

[Tropicdoc]

That's exactly the spots mine has. I need to get a picture.

[Sandy Loam]

Does anyone have any theories as to why this hybrid of (Butia x Jubaea) x Syagrus produces spotted fronds?  What normally causes spotted fronds?  Sergeriskan (above) guesses that it might be soil humidity.  If so, mine (only planted two months ago - small) is in trouble because it is an area which will have semi-damp soil all summer long. 

Perhaps this only occurs in the Patric Schaeffer hybrids, but not in the Tim Hopper hybrids?

Perhaps Tim Hopper's are also faster growing?

 (See above)

I ended up planting mine in deep shade.  It is apparently five years old, but is still not pinnate.  In such deep shade, I am concerned that it will hardly grow at all.  I have a sunny spot where I can transplant it, but it isn't ideal.  Do I need to move it?  Its previous owner had it growing in a pot in full SoCal sun.

Do I also need to be concerned about frequently damp soil with this palm (in summer, at least)?  In other words, if I actually do transplant it, should I create an elevated bed on rocks for additional drainage? 

That's a lot of questions, but thanks to all of you for chiming in.

By the way, mine has no leaf-spotting as yet.

[Joe NC]

On 6/16/2018, 5:24:41, 5150cycad said:

Is this the same type of spotting that others are seeing on this hybrid?

 

14 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Perhaps this only occurs in the Patric Schaeffer hybrids, but not in the Tim Hopper hybrids?

Perhaps Tim Hopper's are also faster growing?

I have a small size one of these ~3 gallon?  Slower than expected growth (much slower than BxQ of the same size), same spotting on the older leaves. 

I put in in the ground as a strap leaf summer 2016 and wrap it with Christmas lights and thermo-cube in winter. It likes to have spear pull even with winter protection.  It is growing out of winter damage now, with no spotting on any of the new growth.

As for the source, I purchased from Penny's Palms on e-bay, and when I asked he said they came from someone in Florida.

[Alicehunter2000]

I believe Patric's are BxJxS and Hopper's are (JxB)xB)xS ..... long thread on the history of those....I'll try and post a new pic of mine, it's growing big very quickly

 

[Alicehunter2000]

I believe Patric's are BxJxS and Hopper's are (JxB)xB)xS ..... long thread on the history of those....I'll try and post a new pic of mine, it's growing big very quickly...here is the War and Peace Thread....

 

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/4789-jubutyagrus/&page=15

[sonoranfans]

20 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Does anyone have any theories as to why this hybrid of (Butia x Jubaea) x Syagrus produces spotted fronds?  What normally causes spotted fronds?  Sergeriskan (above) guesses that it might be soil humidity.  If so, mine (only planted two months ago - small) is in trouble because it is an area which will have semi-damp soil all summer long. 

Perhaps this only occurs in the Patric Schaeffer hybrids, but not in the Tim Hopper hybrids?

Perhaps Tim Hopper's are also faster growing?

 (See above)

I ended up planting mine in deep shade.  It is apparently five years old, but is still not pinnate.  In such deep shade, I am concerned that it will hardly grow at all.  I have a sunny spot where I can transplant it, but it isn't ideal.  Do I need to move it?  Its previous owner had it growing in a pot in full SoCal sun.

Do I also need to be concerned about frequently damp soil with this palm (in summer, at least)?  In other words, if I actually do transplant it, should I create an elevated bed on rocks for additional drainage? 

That's a lot of questions, but thanks to all of you for chiming in.

By the way, mine has no leaf-spotting as yet.

No this spotting happens on the hopper ones too,  the spotting looks like mine.

[Alicehunter2000]

Updated picture of mine

[Sandy Loam]

Holy cow!  Fast!  Yours is from Hopper, not Patric, correct?

By the way, thanks for posting the link to that fifteen page PalmTalk thread on this topic.  I don't think I had seen it before.

 

yours is (J x B)xB) x Syagrus?

If so, that's not the palm that I have. 

[Alicehunter2000]

Yes...Hopper did the final cross...that other thread explains the history from the original JxB that was described by Dr. Wilcox from Fairchild. What I never really understood was...is this hybrid actually a (((JxB)B)B)xS or ((JxB)B)xS?

[Alicehunter2000]

It is very fast...even faster than my Eric mule ...which is fast

[5150cycad]

46 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

It is very fast...even faster than my Eric mule ...which is fast

That is one beautiful palm David. Sounds like it is quite a vigorous grower too. My palm (jubaea x Butia) x syagrus grows very very slow. It puts out multiple new leaves year round but doesnt seem to gain much vertical height, only trunk girth. The leaves tips have pretty crazy hooks which I believe are a pretty common characteristic in both jubaeas and the 3-way hybrid. The guy I bought my palm from purchased it from Patrick and said it was a (jubaea x Butia) x syagrus which would make sense because my palm grows very very slow and what I would expect of a palm where jubaea is the mother. I would expect that the (Butia x Jubaea) x syagrus hybrid would be a lot faster with Butia as the mother. 

Regarding the leaf spotting, mine has had it since the day I bought it. I don’t believe the spotting is a result of humidity in the soil. I say this because my palm is always thirsty for water since it gets watered on a Cycad watering schedule which is once a week max. I should probably be watering my palms a lot more. I just went out and looked at my pure jubaea and noticed that it had similar leaf spotting, just not as bad as my hybrid. Could it be that when the jubaea is the mother in the hybrid it inherits the leaf spotting from the jubaea? Is there anyone out there growing a pure jubaea that exhibits the same leaf spotting as seen on these hybrids? I would love to hear if anyone has any suggestions for getting rid of the spotting. 

[Alicehunter2000]

It's weird because my Patric BxJxS grows very slow....may just be in a bad location. My Patric JxS is proving to be a fast grower and pretty vigorous even through our hot and humid summer.....very pleased with it so far.

 

[5150cycad]

2 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

It's weird because my Patric BxJxS grows very slow....may just be in a bad location. My Patric JxS is proving to be a fast grower and pretty vigorous even through our hot and humid summer.....very pleased with it so far.

 

The jubaea x syagrus are rocket ships. I finally was able to find a 15 gallon jubaea x syagrus and cant wait to get it planted. If your b x j x s is from Patrick maybe I am mistaken then that mine is j x b x s. Either way a very slow palm for me. Really wish I could get rid of the spotting too.

What size did u plant your jubaea x syagrus? Can u post some pictures? This is one of my favorite hybrids. 

[Sandy Loam]

Not to interrupt 5150Cycad, but AliceHunter2000, could you possibly post a photo of your slow-growing BxJxS?  Also, is it growing in shade or sun?  I am afraid that mine is going to be slow too, and if so, I probably need to transplant it into a sunnier location before it becomes established.  It was recently planted at the end of June, so now is the time to get it out of super-deep shade if I need to. Thanks.

[Alicehunter2000]

It was hard to get a good pic...not much to look at

[Alicehunter2000]

It's in a lot of shade...here's another angle... I might move mine too but no room anywhere

[Sandy Loam]

Ouch -- yeah, that's still very small.  I am surprised. Thanks for the photo, AliceHunter2000. Eric-in-Orlando's BxJxS has apparently grown much faster.  

Now back to you, 5150cycad.

[Sandy Loam]

Here is a photo of my (Butia x Jubaea) x Syagrus Romanzoffiana taken today.  It is growing in a lot of shade.  Although it was only planted three months ago, it has a long way to go.  At least it has finally gone pinnate.
 

The species and origin of this palm is somewhat unclear.  It supposedly came from Patric Schaeffer originally and was shipped somewhere in Florida.  In turn, that person in Florida sold it to the person who sold it to me, and it apparently arrived with a label stating: "B x J x S.". Based on that label, I am somewhat guessing at what this palm it.

My guess is that this tree has a lot of Butia in it and therefore may end up being a slow grower, especially in shade.  It is impossible to know how long ago Patric created this Hybrid, and hard to confirm that it was actually him who created it.  The chain back to its origin is long and circuitous because I didn't receive it from Patric directly.  Of course, the seller also did not receive it from Patric directly, so...

I am just amazed that the same palm has grown so quickly for Eric at Leu Gardens in Orlando, Florida (above).

 

[Alberto]

I have some if this jubutyagrus originated from Patric Schaffer seeds. One of them had black spots on the leaves from the very begin. I suspected it was a kind of "sun burn" because the "blackening" was clearly absent on the undersides of the leaflets, or on the upersides of the leaflets that were covered by other bended leaflets...  I posted a topic about it some years ago.

[Swolte]

Great, well please do keep some stats for height and thickness! I am doing the same for mine!
:)

[Sandy Loam]

 Alberto, is the "blackening" the same thing as the leaf - spotting problem which others have complained about when discussing the BxJxS hybrids?  Is it something different?  Although my palm is only three months new to me, it has not shown any signs of either "blackening" or leaf - spotting.  Maybe shade is the solution to both of those problems (?). However, neither the Butia parent nor the Jubaea parent are going to grow quickly in shade, so.....