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Sandy Loam

Southwestern Arizona & outside of Phoenix

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Sandy Loam

I am not located anywhere near Arizona, but I might end up there some day with my love for the desert.  I am asking this question from over here in Florida.  

What are the warmest (overnight in winter) microclimates in and around the Phoenix area?  Can you be specific right down to a particular square km/mile, or a specific hilltop, etc.?  Also, what are the warm patches (avoiding cold overnight winter extremes) in southwestern Arizona anywhere between Yuma and Ajo, approximately.  I understand that Ajo has higher elevation, so is simply colder on winter nights than Yuma, but that's the general vicinity that I'm looking at.

I am not considering cookie-cutter suburban subdivisions.  I'm thinking about the countryside where you can look out and see miles of empty desert expanse.  I don't mind a few houses or structures within view, but I'm thinking about a desert scenery.  I am aware that this type of environment won't offer any supplemental urban hear island effect, but there must some warm patches.  Yuma, for example, is in USDA zone 10a, so there are plenty of plants which I could grow there which would not survive some winters in, e.g., colder Tucson.

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GottmitAlex
On 5/27/2018, 10:17:11, Sandy Loam said:

I am not located anywhere near Arizona, but I might end up there some day with my love for the desert.  I am asking this question from over here in Florida.  

What are the warmest (overnight in winter) microclimates in and around the Phoenix area?  Can you be specific right down to a particular square km/mile, or a specific hilltop, etc.?  Also, what are the warm patches (avoiding cold overnight winter extremes) in southwestern Arizona anywhere between Yuma and Ajo, approximately.  I understand that Ajo has higher elevation, so is simply colder on winter nights than Yuma, but that's the general vicinity that I'm looking at.

I am not considering cookie-cutter suburban subdivisions.  I'm thinking about the countryside where you can look out and see miles of empty desert expanse.  I don't mind a few houses or structures within view, but I'm thinking about a desert scenery.  I am aware that this type of environment won't offer any supplemental urban hear island effect, but there must some warm patches.  Yuma, for example, is in USDA zone 10a, so there are plenty of plants which I could grow there which would not survive some winters in, e.g., colder Tucson.

A sibling of mine lives in Surprise,AZ. 

She has moved from Scottsdale, Phoenix, Mesa and now, Surprise.

They're all relatively close. But I don't think, except for Yuma, Arizona offers anything above a 9B.

 

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mdsonofthesouth

The thing I love most about desert...

 

Canary_Island_Date_Palm_1-1.jpg

 

PS this is not my picture.

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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GottmitAlex
1 hour ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

The thing I love most about desert...

 

Canary_Island_Date_Palm_1-1.jpg

 

PS this is not my picture.

Very nice. Being I'm in Socal, the CIDP's are the same color. However. I have never seen CIDP's as dark a green and lush as in NorCal. Even the most neglected Canary's up there have more fronds (and dark green) than most, well, every fertilized CIDP's down here. 

Something in the water and how cool it is up there I guess. Those lush dark green leaves contrast beautifully with their dark orange/reddish seeds.

Btw, are the CIDP's seeds edible?

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TexasColdHardyPalms

San Francisco up to the Sacramento hills have the nicest CIDP's around, period.  

@Sandy LoamI have been told that right around the airport and south of there up to the foot hills are all solid zone 10 from a few cycad and palm growers in the area.  

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Silas_Sancona
1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

San Francisco up to the Sacramento hills have the nicest CIDP's around, period.  

@Sandy LoamI have been told that right around the airport and south of there up to the foot hills are all solid zone 10 from a few cycad and palm growers in the area.  

This is correct..

Despite what the USDA maps currently suggest, id also include downtown, Tempe, parts of Scottsdale, and the developed parts of Gilbert, Mesa, and areas of Chandler ( roughly north of the 202 where i am currently) and likely some parts of the N.W. side of the Valley such as Glendale in 10A or straddling  the 9b/10a line. There are also spots on the south side of South Mountain, and  similar -facing slopes in the San Tan and Sacaton mountains that could qualify as 10 as well. Given recent winter temp. trends, it wouldn't surprise me at all if most of the greater Phoenix area ends up closer to 10b over time. 

Add to this that the PHX / TUCS. region is expected to experience significant growth over the next 12-18+ years.. Alot of the "open desert" and AG areas you can currently see on Google Earth east of Queen Creek and San Tan Valley, south down into Marana and Casa Grande are big hot spots of new development in the near future, especially once a new freeway running between the U.S. 60 near Apache Junction and the Picacho / Eloy area gets funded and built. This doesn't take into account the potential inflow of new residents the "Dream Port" Theme Park / Resort development is anticipating once completed in 4-6 years in Casa Grande itself. All of this is sure to effect winter temps of the future, on top of recent trends.

Tucson is also trending up zone-wise as well. Most people i speak to regularly down there somewhat reluctantly laugh about how what used to be normal for Phoenix weather is becoming the norm, especially in the more favored, thermal belt areas of town ( hotter summers/ milder winters) Still, at least for now, they win when it comes to summer rainfall. 

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mdsonofthesouth
12 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Very nice. Being I'm in Socal, the CIDP's are the same color. However. I have never seen CIDP's as dark a green and lush as in NorCal. Even the most neglected Canary's up there have more fronds (and dark green) than most, well, every fertilized CIDP's down here. 

Something in the water and how cool it is up there I guess. Those lush dark green leaves contrast beautifully with their dark orange/reddish seeds.

Btw, are the CIDP's seeds edible?

I wouldn't know. Been out west a few times and always associate these "pineapple" palms with the desert like areas, but I dont know anything about them. 

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Chris Chance

If I was to move to Arizona I would personally like the Lake Havasu area. Basically anywhere along the river is zone 10 but it gets very hot also. 

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Eric in Orlando

I was just in AZ a few weeks ago. My sister lives in Sierra Vista (SE of Tucson). Its a colder area, zone 8B/9A but I love that area around Sierra Vista/Tombstone/Bisbee. Tucson is nice but is surprisingly very devoid of palm diversity.

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Rickybobby
On 2018-05-29, 10:46:35, Chris Chance said:

If I was to move to Arizona I would personally like the Lake Havasu area. Basically anywhere along the river is zone 10 but it gets very hot also. 

I agree I have spent months there. It’s absolutely beautiful. All year round fishing boating golfing. Lots of palms. Plus it’s the low desert. Stays prettt warm. Plus you can get property on the out skirts and have that awesome desert or lake view 

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PalmTreeDude

I associate Arizona with Phoenix dactylifera mainly because whenever I buy dates at the store here they say, "grown in Arizona, USA." They also seem to like it there (thrive), I heard that some parts of Arizona have a similar climate to that of where Phoenix dactylifera grow naturally in the Middle East. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude

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TexasColdHardyPalms

They only live there if they receive irrigation. A few abandoned farms can be seen with dead dates and an almost dead w. Filifera or two. 

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Xerarch
On 5/28/2018, 10:28:19, GottmitAlex said:

Btw, are the CIDP's seeds edible?

Yes, or at least the flesh around the seed is which I suppose is what you were getting at. However, I would remind you that “edible” and “good” are quite different things. 

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GottmitAlex
6 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Yes, or at least the flesh around the seed is which I suppose is what you were getting at. However, I would remind you that “edible” and “good” are quite different things. 

Thank you! Yes, I  imagine the taste can be a bit beguiling, but as you noted, my basis of the question boils down to if the seeds/flesh are poisonous. 

I wonder what the Beccariophoenix seeds taste like. I know the lemurs eat them and that is how, in habitat, they propagate...

Do you know if the Ph. Roebellinii seed is edible?

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Not much fruit on a roebellinii seed to get at. Ive never tried it.

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Sandy Loam

What about the western Valley of the Sun (western Phoenix suburbs)?  Do those areas trend a few degrees warmer than central Phoenix or just the opposite?  I am thinking of Waddell, Litchfield Park, Surprise, Buckeye and a few others suburbs.

I was surprised to see online that the average low temperature in January (in Phoenix) was in the thirties Fahrenheit. Meanwhile, the average daytime high temperature is almost seventy Fahrenheit, and that's the coldest month of the year.  In northeastern Florida where my home is, our January average lows are a fair bit warmer than Phoenix, whereas our daytime highs are similar.  Despite this, I saw huge hedges of bougainvillea all around greater Phoenix on a recent trip there.  We can't grow bougainvillea in Gainesville, FL due to winter cold snaps most years, meanwhile bougainvillea does just fine in greater Phoenix (I saw plenty of big ones Palm Springs too).  I guess the weather just doesn't really drop below freezing in Phoenix in winter, even though the average low is quite low? 

In Florida, when you get down as far south as Orlando, you'll see huge bougainvillea everywhere as giant trees and "vines" .  Yet, anywhere north of Orlando, you simply can't grow bougainvillea ----- or crownshaft palms either.

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Sandy Loam

... or what about these areas southeast of Phoenix:  Coolidge, San Tan Valley, Florence, Maricopa and Casa Grande.  How are the winter temperatures there?  I see some good real estate deals in those spots too.  The good deals are either in the outer northwestern suburbs or the outer southeastern bedroom communities (within the greater Phoenix area, I mean).  Homes seem to be more expensive as you move towards the centre of Phoenix, Tempe and Scottsdale, although that is just from my online searching. 

Thanks - I will wait for your local Arizona expertise to hear back.  I am not in Arizona and have only visited.

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AZPalms
34 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

... or what about these areas southeast of Phoenix:  Coolidge, San Tan Valley, Florence, Maricopa and Casa Grande.  How are the winter temperatures there?  I see some good real estate deals in those spots too.  The good deals are either in the outer northwestern suburbs or the outer southeastern bedroom communities (within the greater Phoenix area, I mean).  Homes seem to be more expensive as you move towards the centre of Phoenix, Tempe and Scottsdale, although that is just from my online searching. 

Thanks - I will wait for your local Arizona expertise to hear back.  I am not in Arizona and have only visited.

 

Those areas are on the cooler side with lows, especially Coolidge, Florence etc. 

I’m in the west valley in Waddell. In my opinion I’d move to an area of the valley (or state) that suits your lifestyle and employment needs and plant accordingly. While Yuma is zone 10, there really isn’t much to offer down there. Casa Grande is growing, but again you’re going to be commuting everywhere to work or enjoy entertainment. 

As far as the valley goes, there are pockets that are warmer by a few degrees with winter lows. With the continued expansion of the valley our zones will change I’m sure. 

Bottomline, 99% of the valley proper is going to have a similar climate, with the exception of pockets like discribed in other posts. I’d come and visit during summer and winter (but seriously come during summer for some time), find an area you enjoy and look for housing there. 

If you look at the local AZ thread, that will give you an idea of what can be grown here. 

Max

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