New Copernicia baileyana

[Josue Diaz]

Cuban palms have become my latest obsession. Of the copernicias, I've been itching to get my hands on a baileyana for some time, and thanks to a certain palmtalker in North Texas ( @TexasColdHardyPalms) I now have one! I know of one other palmtalker growing this species in Fresno and I think it's a good palm to try to grow here with our dry heat. It arrived yesterday, expertly packed, and went in the ground today. For now, it's blocked by a large agave desmettiana, but the agave is flowering and will be removed when it's done. Photos to feast your eyes on! 

[Josue Diaz]

[Josue Diaz]

[Josue Diaz]

[Josue Diaz]

Try to spot it here, at the bottom of the photo

[JubaeaMan138]

These love lots and lots of water . Big drinks for them .   eb stone makes a sul.po.mag get some of  that helps with the yellowing tips . I learned that from Len Geiger and it works . Mine is roughly 6 foot tall. And it pushed slowly through winter . With this weeks heat I should for sure see atleast one new leaf in the next week . And the Cuban obsession hasn't just hit you between madagascar and Cuba it's crazy. I have just about every Copernicia minus one and it has turned out to be real tough to find macroglossa. The nice thing about copes is I have put them in full sun and give them lots To drink and they don't skip a beat ! Good luck with this one !

[Josue Diaz]

Good to know. Thanks for the recommendation on the Sul K-Mag, I went and placed an order for some on Amazon.  I gave it a good drink to settle in just before the 90-degree weather we're supposed to have starting this weekend. 

I only have C prunifera and now baileyana, but I'm also trying to germinate cowelii and textilis. Fallaensis is another one I really want to try. 

40 minutes ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

These love lots and lots of water . Big drinks for them .   eb stone makes a sul.po.mag get some of  that helps with the yellowing tips . I learned that from Len Geiger and it works . Mine is roughly 6 foot tall. And it pushed slowly through winter . With this weeks heat I should for sure see atleast one new leaf in the next week . And the Cuban obsession hasn't just hit you between madagascar and Cuba it's crazy. I have just about every Copernicia minus one and it has turned out to be real tough to find macroglossa. The nice thing about copes is I have put them in full sun and give them lots To drink and they don't skip a beat ! Good luck with this one !

 

[Josue Diaz]

@JubaeaMan138 I agree, between Madagascar and Cuba I have plenty to obsess over. Unfortunately, I'm pretty limited in my climate with Madagascan palms (with the exception of D decipiens, and perhaps a few others. Maybe ravenea glauca and bismarkia also.) But the Cuban species might be more promising, albeit slow. 

[5150cycad]

1 hour ago, Josue Diaz said:

@JubaeaMan138 I agree, between Madagascar and Cuba I have plenty to obsess over. Unfortunately, I'm pretty limited in my climate with Madagascan palms (with the exception of D decipiens, and perhaps a few others. Maybe ravenea glauca and bismarkia also.) But the Cuban species might be more promising, albeit slow. 

That is a nice specimen, especially for California standards. I am in the same boat down here in Escondido as far as what I can grow. You should try dypsis onilahensis and ambositrae. I was shocked to see that both of these actually grow really well for me, even with my extreme temperatures. I recently planted Ravenea Xerophila and pseuedophoenix sargentii. I hear they handle the heat and cold very well too. Copernicia bailey is the next one on my list, especially after seeing the one you just planted.  

[GottmitAlex]

Nice one Josue. It is a spectacular palm. I don't have room for that one here. If I did, I would procure one ipso facto.

Breathtaking palm indeed.  That one and the other Copernicia... giganticus/gigantos? Or magnus? Words to the effect.

Keep us updated on its growth please.. that and your alfie.

 

[Josue Diaz]

49 minutes ago, 5150cycad said:

That is a nice specimen, especially for California standards. I am in the same boat down here in Escondido as far as what I can grow. You should try dypsis onilahensis and ambositrae. I was shocked to see that both of these actually grow really well for me, even with my extreme temperatures. I recently planted Ravenea Xerophila and pseuedophoenix sargentii. I hear they handle the heat and cold very well too. Copernicia bailey is the next one on my list, especially after seeing the one you just planted.  

Cool, yeah I'd imagine inland San Diego county would deal with frost also. I have puny seedlings of both the ravenea and the pseudophoenix. I hope to live long enough to see them become something lol. I had a beautiful onilahensis that gave me no issues in winter, but gave up on life last summer in one of our 110-degree heat waves. If I can find a sizable plant again I'll give it another shot. 

 

 

[Josue Diaz]

49 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Nice one Josue. It is a spectacular palm. I don't have room for that one here. If I did, I would procure one ipso facto.

Breathtaking palm indeed.  That one and the other Copernicia... giganticus/gigantos? Or magnus? Words to the effect.

Keep us updated on its growth please.. that and your alfie.

 

Thanks Alex. I think you're referringto gigas. Fallaensis is the other large one.

Beccariophoenix burned a bit with frost but hasn't stopped growing. I expect to have an entire new set of leaves by mid summer. Fingers crossed.

 

[Josue Diaz]

Here he is getting a drink of water. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

The house those bailey's were in dropped to 22-23 but I threw a frost cloth over most of them. The roots at the bottom of the pot didn't like the cold and I noticed a few of them died.

I will bring larger 15G plants with me to the San Diego area in Mid May. Not all of them are sold yet.

[JubaeaMan138]

Here is mine still a little tore up from its drive home 

[JubaeaMan138]

If anyone knows we're to get a small macroglossa or cowellii let me know It would be greatly appreciated 

[aztropic]

Copernicia macroglossa will be a good fit for your desert garden.Tolerates upper 20's to 120F without any problems!

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[aztropic]

Copernicia cowellii is super easy to start from seed! My seeds I gathered in Cuba were only in a baggie 3 days and had sprouted before I left Cuba.It is rather slow growing though after the first year.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Moose]

12 hours ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

If anyone knows we're to get a small macroglossa or cowellii let me know It would be greatly appreciated 

I think Jeff Searle may have sold every three gallon he had at the last Extravaganza. A lot of them went out the gate. He may have held a few back, you may want to PM him.

I got some seed coming along. Between his fruiting specimen and mine, the pipeline needs to get replenished.

[aztropic]

Copernicia baileyana is also bullit proof in the desert.Just plant it and stand back!☺.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[aztropic]

Here's one that's not so popular as it looks alot like a mexican fan palm. It is Copernicia berteroana. I have a couple planted I grew from seed I collected in the Dominican Republic 2006.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I can see why berteroana isn't in high demand.  As far as i know I've never seen one before. 

[aztropic]

Another you  may not have considered is Copernicia glabrecens. It is a blue copernicia that looks alot like hospita but is smaller and is the only clumping copernicia. I keep pruning off the suckers to try and keep it a single but it has it's own plan...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[sonoranfans]

water, water, water for these palms if you want good growth,, especially when freshly planted with a shallow root system.  Baileys develop huge, deep root systems and will, in 4-5 years, be drought tolerant.  And they are nutrient pigs, feed them as the cali growers say.  In florida they get potassium deficiency and also want extra Ca/Mg.  Dolomite around the root area will keep the pH slightly alkaline they way they like it (in the event your soils are not alkaline).   Coldhardiness of baileyana is rated at 26F, but in a short, radiational event, you are likely to see, they may take a few degrees lower.  I would cover it in a cold event for the first few years to prevent a setback as almost all energy will be used to grow roots for the next couple years.

[Tracy]

On 5/4/2018, 10:14:56, Josue Diaz said:

I'm also trying to germinate cowelii and textilis

Copernicia textilis is a nice hybrid.  As things have warmed this is starting to grow again, but photos are from just after the late February early March end of winter cold snap we had.

[Tracy]

On 5/4/2018, 9:29:28, JubaeaMan138 said:

These love lots and lots of water . Big drinks for them .   eb stone makes a sul.po.mag get some of  that helps with the yellowing tips . I learned that from Len Geiger and it works . Mine is roughly 6 foot tall.

I've beenn working on my cousin to give this one more "big gulps" of water, but fortunately its established so survived a couple of dry spells.  George Sparkman got me using Calcium nitrate a couple of times a year to solve some of the yellowing issues with these in our So Cal soils.

[sonoranfans]

there is a balance needed between K, CA and Mg.  If Ca is too high you get a Mg deficiency which appears as general yellowing, same if K is too high,you get Mg deficiency.  The texillis looks like classic K deficiency, yellowing from leaflet tips first, often with some "banding" of the yellowing.  I used to get this on my bailey, but I fixed that a few years back.  Yellowing of the whole leaf(without banding) with green holding out near veins is classic Mg deficiency.  Sul.Po.Mag is used by many of the more experienced growers in SoCal and Florida to correct these issues.  Adding calcium nitrate could help if you had very high Mg in the soil.  But if you don't, it will cause Mg deficiency.  In my garden I found just adding calcium caused yellowing, garden lime with magnesium holds the preferred ratio.  The release rates of Ca,Mg,K should be controlled so they are always available.

[Silas_Sancona]

Agree w/ Scott,  While slow as a slug,  My little C. cowellii hasn't flinched in it's pot here in the Desert. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Silas_Sancona
wording

[humangenomaproject]

I find that they like deeper pots. It wasn't a planned experiment or anything but over the last two years of buying this genus from Floribunda I noticed that the ones in deeper pots grew faster and looked better (they are all in the same soil and in the same area).

[PR00636]

On 5/4/2018 at 7:12 AM, Josue Diaz said:

Cuban palms have become my latest obsession. Of the copernicias, I've been itching to get my hands on a baileyana for some time, and thanks to a certain palmtalker in North Texas ( @TexasColdHardyPalms) I now have one! I know of one other palmtalker growing this species in Fresno and I think it's a good palm to try to grow here with our dry heat. It arrived yesterday, expertly packed, and went in the ground today. For now, it's blocked by a large agave desmettiana, but the agave is flowering and will be removed when it's done. Photos to feast your eyes on! 

How is this species doing a few years later since you planted it?

[Josue Diaz]

19 hours ago, PR00636 said:

How is this species doing a few years later since you planted it?

It's still going! very slowly though. It went into shock and stalled from having been bare-rooted, shipped, then stuck in full sun, and so it took a while to recover. It hasn't sustained any damage from cold, though, which is promising. Its new fronds are about half the size of the old ones, but it's almost replaced it's "crown" so to speak - still one or two of these old fronds left, with significant damage from stress and sun. 

[aztropic]

Great species for the desert! Here is one I grew from seed I collected in Cuba,2014. Can be fairly steady growers,but pot culture slows them down for sure. Gotta get this guy in the ground soon as roots are already growing outside the 15 gallon container. 

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[sonoranfans]

14 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

It's still going! very slowly though. It went into shock and stalled from having been bare-rooted, shipped, then stuck in full sun, and so it took a while to recover. It hasn't sustained any damage from cold, though, which is promising. Its new fronds are about half the size of the old ones, but it's almost replaced it's "crown" so to speak - still one or two of these old fronds left, with significant damage from stress and sun. 

you are very lucky, many nurseries won't ship cuban copernicias larger than 1 gallon here in florida even in state.  When I first saw your pic, with roots exposed and no pot, I thought, "wow and that palms is OK"?  I have a hybrid hospita that never recovered from root damage, ten years later its stunted, hasnt grown much at all.  Shipping large cuban copernicias is very dicey.

[Frond-friend42]

On 5/5/2018 at 12:21 PM, Tracy said:

I've beenn working on my cousin to give this one more "big gulps" of water, but fortunately its established so survived a couple of dry spells.  George Sparkman got me using Calcium nitrate a couple of times a year to solve some of the yellowing issues with these in our So Cal soils.

Is this baileyana? Looks spicy! Love these.

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Is this baileyana? Looks spicy! Love these.

Yes, at the time it was an under-watered Copernicia baileyana.  They got someone out to redrill the well on the property which resolved the issue.  Last time I visited it looked much healthier.  Unfortunately, due to COVID, I haven't been over recently, mostly just visiting over the phone and in texts, which doesn't give me the opportunity to walk around the garden there. 

[TomJ]

On 5/5/2018 at 9:01 AM, aztropic said:

Copernicia baileyana is also bullit proof in the desert.Just plant it and stand back!☺.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

I do NOT want to hijack this thread.

One simple answer will be fine.

I understand the differences in our climates.

I know someone that put white rocks down that said it "reflected the heat".

Obviously black rocks radiate the heat.

Why the white rocks?

[aztropic]

Those are mostly white seashells... Just a different look from the rock mulch/groundcover that everyone else uses in the desert.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[sonoranfans]

13 hours ago, TomJ said:

I do NOT want to hijack this thread.

One simple answer will be fine.

I understand the differences in our climates.

I know someone that put white rocks down that said it "reflected the heat".

Obviously black rocks radiate the heat.

Why the white rocks?

White reflects visible light, and UV plus visible light is pretty much all that sunlight has.  When rock absorbs the light it converts it to heat(IR), so black heats up faster.  In arizona asphalt(black) gets notably hotter than concrete for this reason.   IN the hottest most exposed places white rock may help, but in part shade or places like vista(much more mild than AZ) it probably does little more than brown rock to limit heat.  When you see guys like scott(aztropic) posting palms in bunches, the shade of the root areas is much better, its not like being out in the open exposed so the color won't matter as much.  Scott knows how to grow very well in AZ, hint: palms are bunched together helping to limit the suns heating on each palm.  Rod andersons place in north pheonix is  just jammed with palms with a few walkways in the "forest".  Dense plantings really cool down the yard heating in really hot places like AZ.

[sonoranfans]

back lnto the thread topic Copernicia baileyana.  Here is mine, planted spring 2011 as a 5(?) gallon about a foot tall.    It was slow at first but once it gets to 5' or so it took off at a decent growing speed. Today its ~15' overall and growing faster than ever.  Two pics: before in 2011 6 months after planting and in 2020 about 2 1/2 years after IRMA.  My bailey was hammered in IRMA and had a 2 year period of fungal infection of the spear (with slow growth) after all the rubbing/abrasion in IRMA.  It is coming back nicely now and will probably have no visible damage by next summer.  Any yellowing you see is parts of the spear/leaf that had fungal infection areas.  It was a battle with peroxide and daconil, hard to apply down the grow point, but I am glad the battle appears over, as the newest ~ 6 leaves show no sign of fungus.

[aztropic]

Different shell shapes and colors provide greater visual interest than rock. It's actually a commonly used material throughout Florida and many Caribbean islands.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona