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pj_orlando_z9b

Coconut damage and treatment

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pj_orlando_z9b

Hi, new poster here.  Look forward to good discussions.  Have a coconut in Orlando.  Planted it in 2015 and made it through unprotected 2 winters just fine.  Got hit by the January 2018 freeze. (6 hours below freezing, 4 hours @ 28F).  

Protection: C7 lights around trunk wrapped in burlap and bed sheets.  Inside thermometer by trunk never got below 40F.
Symptoms: New spears starting pushing out just a few weeks after the freeze
. In March, it started showing signs of complications or stress. New fronds are wilting and some necrosis appearing. Last 2 fronds wilting in almost a "U" shape.
Treatment: After seeing some necrosis or signed of fungus, I did a treatment of fungicide and hydrogen peroxide.
Fertilizer: Like most others in Central Florida, I get spring stress from lack of Mn and K.  I did my normal treatment fertilizer, K, and Mn on 4/1 (I have a regular treatment 4x per year)

1-2 weeks after freeze (2/1):
41356182822_2b6de9c5ff_z.jpg

Today (4/24)
27812282798_b874e671ba_z.jpg

Today (4/24) Emerging spears looking ok
40971646344_a14c8ccd7d_z.jpg

Palm meristem seems fine.  I tug once a week and no signs of spear pulling out.  Whether it is cold damage or fertilizer, is this normal after a stress event?

Edited by pj_orlando_z9b
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pj_orlando_z9b

BTW, this is the same palm in July 2017
26813249897_383706b9dd_z.jpg

and Feb 2016
41642182592_f231c276f0_z.jpg

Based on size and growth, any idea of which coconut variety this might be?

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Palmsbro
21 minutes ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

BTW, this is the same palm in July 2017
26813249897_383706b9dd_z.jpg

and Feb 2016
41642182592_f231c276f0_z.jpg

Based on size and growth, any idea of which coconut variety this might be?

I know nothing about identifying different coconut varieties, but this one seems to grow quite fast and recover from -2.2 C temperatures well.

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kinzyjr

@pj_orlando_z9b The best thing you can do at this point is continue to provide them with the water and nutrients to grow optimally.  They typically grow out of the damage pretty quick if you can keep the spear/bud from getting some kind of infection or rot.  It seems like you headed that possibility off from what I see so far.  From the shape of the crown and the green color of the rachis, I would guess a Green Malayan Dwarf.  @Zeeth can probably tell you with much more certainty than I can.

I use a protection method similar to your method, but I had a lot less damage at roughly the same temperatures.  I would guess that happened because mine are at least somewhat shielded from wind, and yours is more out in the open and exposed to the wind we had.

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GottmitAlex

That palm is recovering nicely!  Based on the leaves on the newer pics, it looks like a tall variety to me.

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pj_orlando_z9b
22 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@pj_orlando_z9b The best thing you can do at this point is continue to provide them with the water and nutrients to grow optimally.  They typically grow out of the damage pretty quick if you can keep the spear/bud from getting some kind of infection or rot.  It seems like you headed that possibility off from what I see so far.  From the shape of the crown and the green color of the rachis, I would guess a Green Malayan Dwarf.  @Zeeth can probably tell you with much more certainty than I can.

I use a protection method similar to your method, but I had a lot less damage at roughly the same temperatures.  I would guess that happened because mine are at least somewhat shielded from wind, and yours is more out in the open and exposed to the wind we had.

Thanks @kinzyjr. Hoping the rot is eliminated.  I'm still treating about once per week with 3% hydrogen peroxide.  I would hate to lose it to a complication like fungus.

It is exposed.  Any microclimate I get is due to proximity to the south facing wall and the large lake close (less than a quarter mile from an 1800 acre lake and on the SE side).  Glad yours is doing well!  Time will tell with mine.

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pj_orlando_z9b
3 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

That palm is recovering nicely!  Based on the leaves on the newer pics, it looks like a tall variety to me.

Thanks.  It's trying but not out of the woods yet.  I too assumed a tall too.  It is massive with a full crown and it grows very fast. 

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Zeeth

Looks like it's in the Maypan complex. Not exactly an F1 Maypan, but not quite a tall or dwarf. 

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Moose
On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2018‎ ‎5‎:‎41‎:‎27‎, GottmitAlex said:

That palm is recovering nicely!  Based on the leaves on the newer pics, it looks like a tall variety to me.

:bemused:

Two years to grow out of that ...

All new leaves, no brown

Edited by Moose

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pj_orlando_z9b
6 hours ago, Moose said:

:bemused:

Two years to grow out of that ...

All new leaves, no brown

Yup, long way to go. Need to see good rebound by August if it wants to have a future. 

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Mr. Coconut Palm
On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018‎ ‎7‎:‎54‎:‎14‎, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Hi, new poster here.  Look forward to good discussions.  Have a coconut in Orlando.  Planted it in 2015 and made it through unprotected 2 winters just fine.  Got hit by the January 2018 freeze. (6 hours below freezing, 4 hours @ 28F).  

Protection: C7 lights around trunk wrapped in burlap and bed sheets.  Inside thermometer by trunk never got below 40F.
Symptoms: New spears starting pushing out just a few weeks after the freeze
. In March, it started showing signs of complications or stress. New fronds are wilting and some necrosis appearing. Last 2 fronds wilting in almost a "U" shape.
Treatment: After seeing some necrosis or signed of fungus, I did a treatment of fungicide and hydrogen peroxide.
Fertilizer: Like most others in Central Florida, I get spring stress from lack of Mn and K.  I did my normal treatment fertilizer, K, and Mn on 4/1 (I have a regular treatment 4x per year)

1-2 weeks after freeze (2/1):
41356182822_2b6de9c5ff_z.jpg

Today (4/24)
27812282798_b874e671ba_z.jpg

Today (4/24) Emerging spears looking ok
40971646344_a14c8ccd7d_z.jpg

Palm meristem seems fine.  I tug once a week and no signs of spear pulling out.  Whether it is cold damage or fertilizer, is this normal after a stress event?

Looks a little better than my comparable sized Green Malayan Dwarf Coconut Palm here in Corpus Christi, Texas.  Mine got hit by 6 freezes this past winter, 3 of them in the upper 20'sF with a total all winter of about 35 or 36 hours below freezing!  Yours should look fine by August!

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018‎ ‎8‎:‎02‎:‎49‎, pj_orlando_z9b said:

BTW, this is the same palm in July 2017
26813249897_383706b9dd_z.jpg

and Feb 2016
41642182592_f231c276f0_z.jpg

Based on size and growth, any idea of which coconut variety this might be?

Looks like a healthy Green Malayan Dwarf.  Where did you get it at?

John

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pj_orlando_z9b
9 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Looks a little better than my comparable sized Green Malayan Dwarf Coconut Palm here in Corpus Christi, Texas.  Mine got hit by 6 freezes this past winter, 3 of them in the upper 20'sF with a total all winter of about 35 or 36 hours below freezing!  Yours should look fine by August!

John

Did you protect it at all?

My coldest night was 28.0F.  I was below freezing for 6 hours and below 30F for 4 hours.

Jan (and the entire winter) saw 7 nights below 40F (28, 34, 35, 36, 37, 37, 39)

I had C7 lights around the trunk I left on through Jan and wrapped them in burlap to hold in the heat.

I bought it in 2015 from Green Jungle Nursery in Orlando. $19.

Edited by pj_orlando_z9b
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pj_orlando_z9b

Nice curve to the trunk. Do Malayans curve. I thought they were straight. 

20180521_201247.jpg

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sandgroper
4 hours ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Nice curve to the trunk. Do Malayans curve. I thought they were straight. 

20180521_201247.jpg

I've seen plenty of them here with a lean.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
10 hours ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Did you protect it at all?

My coldest night was 28.0F.  I was below freezing for 6 hours and below 30F for 4 hours.

Jan (and the entire winter) saw 7 nights below 40F (28, 34, 35, 36, 37, 37, 39)

I had C7 lights around the trunk I left on through Jan and wrapped them in burlap to hold in the heat.

I bought it in 2015 from Green Jungle Nursery in Orlando. $19.

PJ,

I did protect my big Green Malayan (about 14ft. tall in overall height with about 2 ft. of trunk at the base in early Dec.) with small incandescent Christmas lights throughout the winter, and I wrapped a blanket around the lights on the trunk on the nights when it was supposed to get down to freezing or below.  Plus, I fertilized it in December with MicroLife 8-4-6 Ultimate All Organic Biological Fertilizer (granular slow release) that is ALL ORGANIC and has over 70 minerals and micronutrients, and applied Medina Hasta Gro 12-4-8 as a foliar spray (to help ward off Potassium deficiency) several times throughout the winter, as well as applied Bonide Copper Fungicide for Organic Landscaping mixed at a rate of 1 ounce per gallon of water a couple of times over the winter (drenching the crown with it).  It is slowly recovering with 3 old leaves that are about 40% to 80% green in the center of the crown, and a new leaf that was opening a couple of months ago, but was broken in the middle by high winds, so I cut it off at the break, and it has since emerged about another foot in length, but no new spear leaf yet!

John

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GottmitAlex
3 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

PJ,

I did protect my big Green Malayan (about 14ft. tall in overall height with about 2 ft. of trunk at the base in early Dec.) with small incandescent Christmas lights throughout the winter, and I wrapped a blanket around the lights on the trunk on the nights when it was supposed to get down to freezing or below.  Plus, I fertilized it in December with MicroLife 8-4-6 Ultimate All Organic Biological Fertilizer (granular slow release) that is ALL ORGANIC and has over 70 minerals and micronutrients, and applied Medina Hasta Gro 12-4-8 as a foliar spray (to help ward off Potassium deficiency) several times throughout the winter, as well as applied Bonide Copper Fungicide for Organic Landscaping mixed at a rate of 1 ounce per gallon of water a couple of times over the winter (drenching the crown with it).  It is slowly recovering with 3 old leaves that are about 40% to 80% green in the center of the crown, and a new leaf that was opening a couple of months ago, but was broken in the middle by high winds, so I cut it off at the break, and it has since emerged about another foot in length, but no new spear leaf yet!

John

HI John. Do you have a recent picture of your Malayan? 

Sorry to hear what happened. Hope it recovers swiftly.

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Moose
On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018‎ ‎1‎:‎30‎:‎13‎, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Yup, long way to go. Need to see good rebound by August if it wants to have a future. 

Pushing it with higher Nitrogen % fertilizer may help push newer spears and subsequent fronds faster. Doing so may make the new growth less 'cold hardy"  if you keep fertilizing past Sept. but I think worth the chance to get it back to it's original shape. It is not as likely this next cold season will be as severe. If it is, your Coconut palm in the state its in now, may not be able to handle another cold season like last one.

Just my opinion. :interesting:

Edited by Moose
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Mr. Coconut Palm
On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018‎ ‎9‎:‎44‎:‎18‎, GottmitAlex said:

HI John. Do you have a recent picture of your Malayan? 

Sorry to hear what happened. Hope it recovers swiftly.

Hey Alex,

I am going to attempt to post some photos from the other day.

Image may contain: plant, tree, sky and outdoor

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Mr. Coconut Palm
On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018‎ ‎9‎:‎44‎:‎18‎, GottmitAlex said:

HI John. Do you have a recent picture of your Malayan? 

Sorry to hear what happened. Hope it recovers swiftly.

Image may contain: plant, tree, sky, house, outdoor and nature

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Mr. Coconut Palm
On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018‎ ‎9‎:‎44‎:‎18‎, GottmitAlex said:

HI John. Do you have a recent picture of your Malayan? 

Sorry to hear what happened. Hope it recovers swiftly.

Image may contain: plant, tree, outdoor and nature

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GottmitAlex

It's past the hopeful stage. It's recuperating nicely, John!

And without a doubt, it just received another degree of cold hardiness.

 

Pour le Mérite!

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Mr. Coconut Palm
1 minute ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Image may contain: plant, tree, outdoor and nature

This last photo is a close up of the latest new leaf to emerge.  It started emerging in March, but very high winds broke it in the middle, so I cut it off at the break, and it has slowly grown about 15 inches since then, but no new spear leaf yet!

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
3 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

It's past the hopeful stage. It's recuperating nicely, John!

And without a doubt, it just received another degree of cold hardiness.

 

Pour le Mérite!

Thanks, Alex.  I hope you are right!  What is the French phrase?  I am of French descent, but don't know the language.

John

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sandgroper

It looks to be doing well to me, if mine cones out of our winter looking as well as this one I'llbe happy. Good luck with it mate, you've done well so far.

Edited by sandgroper
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Mr. Coconut Palm
3 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

It looks to be doing well to me, if mine cones out of our winter looking as well as this one I'llbe happy. Good luck with it mate, you've done well so far.

Thanks, Dave, and good luck with yours.  Post some photos for us of yours before, during, and after your winter.

Thanks,

John

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GottmitAlex
9 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Thanks, Alex.  I hope you are right!  What is the French phrase?  I am of French descent, but don't know the language.

John

I hear you John.

Technically Deutsch

From Wiki..

"The Pour le Mérite ([puʁ lə me.ʁit], French, literally "For Merit") is an order of merit(German: Verdienstorden) established in 1740 by King Frederick II of Prussia. The Pour le Mérite was awarded as both a military and civil honour and ranked, along with the Order of the Black Eagle, the Order of the Red Eagleand the House Order of Hohenzollern, among the highest orders of merit in the Kingdom of Prussia. "

Eta:

The house of Hohenzollern is Bavarian. 

200px-PLMeichenlaub.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
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sandgroper
19 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Thanks, Dave, and good luck with yours.  Post some photos for us of yours before, during, and after your winter.

Thanks,

John

Will do mate, we're currently experiencing the first storm of the season so when it gets light outside I'll go and see what damage if any has happened.  

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pj_orlando_z9b
33 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Image may contain: plant, tree, outdoor and nature

One of my spears that emerged early April also snapped on it's own (facing camera). But it continues to push and grew quite sturdy. You can see the latest spear peeking through on the right side of the palm. 

20180525_192146.jpg

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Mr. Coconut Palm
21 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

I hear you John.

Technically Deutsch

From Wiki..

"The Pour le Mérite ([puʁ lə me.ʁit], French, literally "For Merit") is an order of merit(German: Verdienstorden) established in 1740 by King Frederick II of Prussia. The Pour le Mérite was awarded as both a military and civil honour and ranked, along with the Order of the Black Eagle, the Order of the Red Eagleand the House Order of Hohenzollern, among the highest orders of merit in the Kingdom of Prussia. "

Eta:

The house of Hohenzollern is Bavarian. 

200px-PLMeichenlaub.jpg

Okay, thanks, Alex.  I also have a little German ancestry on my Father's side of the family, but again, don't know the language.  Interesting though, since I am of Royal blood (French monarchy) on my Father's side of the family, and noble blood on my Mother's side of the family.

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
4 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Will do mate, we're currently experiencing the first storm of the season so when it gets light outside I'll go and see what damage if any has happened.  

Okay, thanks.

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pj_orlando_z9b

Latest spear emerging. This is the healthiest one I've seen so far this year so fingers crossed. Any dead tissue from cold/fungus seems to have pushed through. BTW, does anyone know what that film is on coconut spears. I've always had it. You can scrape it away with a fingernail or a toothbrush. 

20180525_192216.jpg

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Mr. Coconut Palm
6 minutes ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

One of my spears that emerged early April also snapped on it's own (facing camera). But it continues to push and grew quite sturdy. You can see the latest spear peeking through on the right side of the palm. 

20180525_192146.jpg

PJ,

Is the leaf that snapped the one facing us in the photo?

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
3 minutes ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Latest spear emerging. This is the healthiest one I've seen so far this year so fingers crossed. Any dead tissue from cold/fungus seems to have pushed through. BTW, does anyone know what that film is on coconut spears. I've always had it. You can scrape it away with a fingernail or a toothbrush. 

20180525_192216.jpg

PJ,

I wouldn't scrape away that film.  It is a natural part of the leaf and probably needs to be there to protect if from pest and disease problems, just like I wouldn't scrape away the black substance at the base of the leaves on Foxtail palms!

John

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pj_orlando_z9b
21 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

PJ,

Is the leaf that snapped the one facing us in the photo?

John

Yes. You can tell where the stress point was. Something with the cell structure maybe that made it weak. 

Screenshot_20180525-195641_Gallery.jpg

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sandgroper

It's still very stormy here but the polycarbonate sheeting is mostly in place, it's moved around a bit but has still kept everything relatively warm. The coconut is completely open to the elements up top so I'm reasonably happy with the temperature inside all things considered.

image.jpg

image.jpg

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sandgroper

The crazy things we do to fight nature!

image.jpg

image.jpg

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Mr. Coconut Palm
3 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

The crazy things we do to fight nature!

image.jpg

image.jpg

Dave,

It looks like your thermometer is showing 63F?  That's a good temp for a chilly winter day!  Just don't water it too much in the winter!  I water my in ground ones about once every 10 days to 2 weeks in the winter, whereas, I water them once a week or even twice a week sometimes in the hot dry summer.

John

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sandgroper

I water every day in our summer but water only occasionally during our winter, I probably won't water at all this winter as I think the palm will get enough rain water to keep it going. The ground around the base of the Palm is covered due to the plastic containers acting as a heat soak but I think it'll still get enough residual water but I will monitor it closely. I must say it is fun playing around like this pushing the boundaries.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
7 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

I water every day in our summer but water only occasionally during our winter, I probably won't water at all this winter as I think the palm will get enough rain water to keep it going. The ground around the base of the Palm is covered due to the plastic containers acting as a heat soak but I think it'll still get enough residual water but I will monitor it closely. I must say it is fun playing around like this pushing the boundaries.

Wow!  Every day in your summers?  You must have REALLY DRY summers!  I water mine that are in pots every other day in the summer, but my in ground ones only once or twice a week in the summer.  My water bill would be well over $300 per month, if I watered my in ground ones ever day in the summer!

John

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