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My Perth coconut palm


sandgroper

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Yeah white tips are horrible things. Very hard shell on them. They almost audibly crack when you squash them with a shoe.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Well winter is over here in Perth now, the coming week has temps from 24c to 26c which will be nice and better still I'm very happy with the way my coconut looks, a bit rough around the edges but well and truly alive and growing. It actually pushed out a new frond over winter and has not stopped growing, it slowed down a bit but considering it was largely exposed to the elements I'm very happy with the way it handled the cooler weather. I think I may have won this battle, I'm now very confident that I'll have this coconut for many years to come, it'll outlive me!

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

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The frond that opened over winter and another little coconut that I potted up just before winter, this one survived quite well also.

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

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11 hours ago, sandgroper said:

The frond that opened over winter and another little coconut that I potted up just before winter, this one survived quite well also.

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

With all that sand and shipping rope, your coconuts must think they're in the tropics on the set of pirates in the Caribbean. Well done.

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Somehow I missed this posting, and only knew about it from a link I followed from another posting. In any event, I applaud your thus far successful effort to grow a coconut palm at 32 degrees S latitude. No doubt a crude greenhouse (to magnify solar radiation from the sun) to help hold in heat and shield the palm against the cold wind went a long way in protecting your palm. The water jugs to act a a heat sink and radiate stored heat at night is a plus, as well as ceramic heater. 

I think the biggest factor in continuing to grow your coconut palm is to provide heat to the trunk and meristem and soil (for the roots) during the colder/cooler winter months. Don't concern yourself about the fronds. If they get frost nipped, so be it. Also, the cooler months are going to cause our palm to go into potassium deficiency and mineral deficiencies overall, as the palm is just going to slow down taking up and distributing these minerals -- 'cause it ain't the tropics!

I have a green Malayan dwarf coconut palm that I have been growing in the ground for 15 years. I estimate it was about 3 years old (no trunk yet) when I bought and planted it. At first I used cinch up and bundle the fronds, then wrap the palm with layers of insulation blanket so as to protect it from frost, and to a much lesser extent cold temperatures. But I did sirally wrap a heating cable around the palm over the first layer of insulation blankets, the wrapped another layer of that so as to help hold in the heat.

Once the palm got too big to bundle and wrap the palms, I used a 30K BTU forced air propane heater to blow on it. But that didn't work all that well. It helped, but the spread of the palm was to great for the heated air pattern. The center fronds did okay, but the outer fronds still got frost burned. 

That's when I gave up on trying to protect the entire palm. It was then I decided just to wrap a thermostatically controlled heating cabel around the palm's trunk, and up past the meristem. In 2010 I had six nights below -1C, and three nights below -4.5C and the coldest night of -6C! My palm survived, even though the fronds were fried to a crisp.

Keeping the trunk and meristem from freezing, there was enough starch in the trunk and roots to start regenerating new fronds. Once the first frond opened, photosynthesis starts to make new food for the palm's regrowth. I found with my coconut palm that it produces new fronds fairly fast over the course of spring, summer, and fall.

This past winter I had one bad night that caused major frost damaged to my coconut palm, along with the usually potassium deficiency that causes the fronds to turn a yellow-orange, then die to brown in color. So, my problem is different than yours, as I'm generally only concerned about one (rarely two) cold nights where my coconut palm needs to be protected.

With respect to your palm, I would employ any technique/method, etc., you can to provide your palm with the most heat it can get during the winter months.But now you have many, many moths of good weather conducive of growing a coconut palm. I wish yours well.

Below is a photo I took of my Malayan dwarf coconut this evening. Back in February it was pretty much fried by frost. So far it's grown all new fronds except one that you can see on the left side of the palm crown.

Coconut palm 9-21-18.jpg

Coconuts 9-21-18.jpg

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Mad about palms

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Walt, your coconut looks great considering the stress of your winters. I noticed that its trunk is very thin for a green malayan.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Nice coconut Dave!

 

Do you think you will be able to stop it from getting as yellow during winter? I wonder if it got too much water during winter and not just K deficiency, although with sand it shouldn't be a problem. 

Is it a green Malayan dwarf or perhaps a yellow Malayan? Hard to say.

 

Keep up the good work!

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20 hours ago, Walt said:

Somehow I missed this posting, and only knew about it from a link I followed from another posting. In any event, I applaud your thus far successful effort to grow a coconut palm at 32 degrees S latitude. No doubt a crude greenhouse (to magnify solar radiation from the sun) to help hold in heat and shield the palm against the cold wind went a long way in protecting your palm. The water jugs to act a a heat sink and radiate stored heat at night is a plus, as well as ceramic heater. 

I think the biggest factor in continuing to grow your coconut palm is to provide heat to the trunk and meristem and soil (for the roots) during the colder/cooler winter months. Don't concern yourself about the fronds. If they get frost nipped, so be it. Also, the cooler months are going to cause our palm to go into potassium deficiency and mineral deficiencies overall, as the palm is just going to slow down taking up and distributing these minerals -- 'cause it ain't the tropics!

I have a green Malayan dwarf coconut palm that I have been growing in the ground for 15 years. I estimate it was about 3 years old (no trunk yet) when I bought and planted it. At first I used cinch up and bundle the fronds, then wrap the palm with layers of insulation blanket so as to protect it from frost, and to a much lesser extent cold temperatures. But I did sirally wrap a heating cable around the palm over the first layer of insulation blankets, the wrapped another layer of that so as to help hold in the heat.

Once the palm got too big to bundle and wrap the palms, I used a 30K BTU forced air propane heater to blow on it. But that didn't work all that well. It helped, but the spread of the palm was to great for the heated air pattern. The center fronds did okay, but the outer fronds still got frost burned. 

That's when I gave up on trying to protect the entire palm. It was then I decided just to wrap a thermostatically controlled heating cabel around the palm's trunk, and up past the meristem. In 2010 I had six nights below -1C, and three nights below -4.5C and the coldest night of -6C! My palm survived, even though the fronds were fried to a crisp.

Keeping the trunk and meristem from freezing, there was enough starch in the trunk and roots to start regenerating new fronds. Once the first frond opened, photosynthesis starts to make new food for the palm's regrowth. I found with my coconut palm that it produces new fronds fairly fast over the course of spring, summer, and fall.

This past winter I had one bad night that caused major frost damaged to my coconut palm, along with the usually potassium deficiency that causes the fronds to turn a yellow-orange, then die to brown in color. So, my problem is different than yours, as I'm generally only concerned about one (rarely two) cold nights where my coconut palm needs to be protected.

With respect to your palm, I would employ any technique/method, etc., you can to provide your palm with the most heat it can get during the winter months.But now you have many, many moths of good weather conducive of growing a coconut palm. I wish yours well.

Below is a photo I took of my Malayan dwarf coconut this evening. Back in February it was pretty much fried by frost. So far it's grown all new fronds except one that you can see on the left side of the palm crown.

Coconut palm 9-21-18.jpg

Coconuts 9-21-18.jpg

G'day Walt and thanks for the kind words. Wow, minus 6c, I had no idea that a coconut could survive temps so low, we have never recorded temps anywhere near that low here in Perth so at least that won't be a problem for me. I have protected the trunk of my palm which is much smaller than yours and kept it as warm as possible, that wasn't a problem during the day but the nights can get cool, we had one morning where the temp dipped to 3c this winter but it was much warmer than that around the base of my coconut and the day warmed up from there quite quickly. I use sulphate of potash on my palm regularly in the warmer months which I think helps its ability to withstand the cooler months. Thanks for your advice and experience, it's much appreciated and any little tip can only help towards keeping my palm healthy.

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5 hours ago, Cluster said:

Nice coconut Dave!

 

Do you think you will be able to stop it from getting as yellow during winter? I wonder if it got too much water during winter and not just K deficiency, although with sand it shouldn't be a problem. 

Is it a green Malayan dwarf or perhaps a yellow Malayan? Hard to say.

 

Keep up the good work!

G'day mate, thanks for the comments. It actually hasn't yellowed too badly, I thought it was looking a bit too yellow but when I stand back and have a good look I think it has held up quite well. The very tips of some of the leaflets have browned off, I think due to cool winds but overall there is not one single frond that needs to be removed, they're all still green and the palm is pushing out another large spear. 

The palm is a golden Malayan coconut, they're quite yellow looking anyway which is probably why it appears yellow in photos. We have quite a lot of these growing further north in our state, I've seen some of these with individual fronds six metres long and three metres wide, they can get really big. One thing I've often wondered is that you can have a huge, healthy coconut with enormous fronds, thick trunk and packed with nuts right alongside a stunted, short coconut that looks terrible, I've seen this several times and wondered why when growing conditions are identical. We have a town called Coral Bay further north in our state and coconuts are grown there along the road and for some reason one will look terrible and palms either side look magnificent. 

Good luck with your coconut, hope it goes well.

Edited by sandgroper
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45 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

G'day Walt and thanks for the kind words. Wow, minus 6c, I had no idea that a coconut could survive temps so low, we have never recorded temps anywhere near that low here in Perth so at least that won't be a problem for me. I have protected the trunk of my palm which is much smaller than yours and kept it as warm as possible, that wasn't a problem during the day but the nights can get cool, we had one morning where the temp dipped to 3c this winter but it was much warmer than that around the base of my coconut and the day warmed up from there quite quickly. I use sulphate of potash on my palm regularly in the warmer months which I think helps its ability to withstand the cooler months. Thanks for your advice and experience, it's much appreciated and any little tip can only help towards keeping my palm healthy.

No, no, no! My coconut didn't survive -6c, because the trunk and meristem never saw that low a temperature. As I said, I spirally wrapped the trunk up and past the meristem with a thermostatically controlled heating cable (rated at 7 watts/foot). I then wrapped many layers of insulative mover's quilts or or old padded mattress covers. The wraps hold the heat in from the heating cables. Had the trunk and meristem been exposed to -6c, my coconut palm would have been killed, no doubt. I actually put a remote control thermometer sensor (signaling my base station inside my house) under the insulation wraps, but trying to keep it far away from the heating cable so that the temperature readings wouldn't be unduly influenced. Even on my coldest night (20.8 F/-6.16C), the lowest temperature my sensor recorded was 55F/12.65C).

Below is a photo showing all the freeze damage to many other palms and plants near my coconut palm. This was from December of 2010, when when we had an invasion of arctic air that lingered for 11 straight days. I had 11 straight nights where the low was below 4.4.  Six nights below -1.1. Three nights below -3.85, and my coldest night of -6.16!

It was the worst cold spell I've ever experienced in my 21 years living here in Lake Placid, Florida. But the town itself didn't see near as low temperatures as it's at a higher elevation, and all the cold nights were windless (radiational cooling nights).

You can see my coconut palm to the extreme right in the below photo. I even used a forced air kerosene 30K BTU (until I ran out of kerosene) to help save the fronds. Note the other palms wrapped with multiple wraps of white flannel sheets , with heating cables wrapped around the trunks (from left to right: A. alexandrae, Sygrus schizophylla, Dypsis leptocheilos). I think these palms survived only due to my trunk and meristem protection. The fronds got fried.

But my wintertime problem is mainly one or two extra cold nights. Otherwise I have adequate wintertime heat. While you don't get near as cold, you lack higher average heat. That is why you need to give your palm ever advantage you can to keep it as warm as possible. If it gets good solar radiation (lots of winter sun), then take advantage of any materials that can soak up that heat so that it can re release it at night). I look forward to seeing how your coconut palm fares as time goes by. You should be good to go now for the next 9 months or so.

Wrapped palms.jpg

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Mad about palms

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19 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Walt, your coconut looks great considering the stress of your winters. I noticed that its trunk is very thin for a green malayan.

I also think the trunk is on the thin (small diameter) side. The nursery that sold me the palm didn't know the variety of the coconut. Somebody (others) here at Palmtalk just guessed it was a green Malayan dwarf. IMO, the nuts are smaller in size than in past years, but they were never as large as some coconut nuts I've seen. But like I said earlier, my palm has not put out one flower spike all year long. I have no idea why. I find that very odd. Hence, I many not have a crop of nuts for next year. I need to remove one or two nuts now and see if they have good water and meat in them.

Mad about palms

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OK Dave, thanks for the explanation.

A golden Malayan will have some tint to the fronds, still try to see if less dampness does anything. 

By chance you don't have a good picture one one of those pristine Golden Malayan with big fronds? 

I have also wondered why many cocos look a lot worse compared to others, even in perfectly tropical climates you can see this disparity. Some are just meant to look worse I guess, no matter how you take care of them!

 

Walt when do you update your garden with videos again? You should show us your coconut offspring, to see how they have evolved. I suspect your big Malayan is just recovering from the shock and will resume again after this pause. 

 

Regards,

Pedro

 

 

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12 hours ago, Cluster said:

OK Dave, thanks for the explanation.

A golden Malayan will have some tint to the fronds, still try to see if less dampness does anything. 

By chance you don't have a good picture one one of those pristine Golden Malayan with big fronds? 

I have also wondered why many cocos look a lot worse compared to others, even in perfectly tropical climates you can see this disparity. Some are just meant to look worse I guess, no matter how you take care of them!

 

Walt when do you update your garden with videos again? You should show us your coconut offspring, to see how they have evolved. I suspect your big Malayan is just recovering from the shock and will resume again after this pause. 

 

Regards,

Pedro

 

 

G'day Pedro, I can't find any photos of the coconuts in Coral Bay, I was there every  week for nine years and I can't find one photo! I had a look online, I can find pics of  coconuts in Coral Bay but not the ones I was talking about, they were growing alongside a building and were absolutely massive, really huge fronds. Sorry mate, next time I'm there I'll make sure I take some photos.

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13 hours ago, Cluster said:

OK Dave, thanks for the explanation.

A golden Malayan will have some tint to the fronds, still try to see if less dampness does anything. 

By chance you don't have a good picture one one of those pristine Golden Malayan with big fronds? 

I have also wondered why many cocos look a lot worse compared to others, even in perfectly tropical climates you can see this disparity. Some are just meant to look worse I guess, no matter how you take care of them!

 

Walt when do you update your garden with videos again? You should show us your coconut offspring, to see how they have evolved. I suspect your big Malayan is just recovering from the shock and will resume again after this pause. 

 

Regards,

Pedro

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Cluster said:

 

Walt when do you update your garden with videos again? You should show us your coconut offspring, to see how they have evolved. I suspect your big Malayan is just recovering from the shock and will resume again after this pause. 

 

Regards,

Pedro

 

Pedro: I'm planning any day now to do my 2018 property update. My property is now a day and night difference since it was ravaged last September by Hurricane Irma. It took me many, many months to clean it up and for nature to heal it.

 My bismarckia palms still haven't regrown full crowns, and I still have many dead and hanging fronds that I can't access. Naturally, I lost many palms (two big Syagrus botryophora); my biggest Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, plus small ones, totally blown down. Large queen palms snapped in two or had huge crowns snapped off.

I need to walk my property with my video camera and narrate and/or just put subtitles on the video when I edit it. I also have a friend with a camera drone who is going to provide aerial video of my property, and maybe fly low, through pathways in my wooded area. I'm hoping to make a new YouTube video soon, and I will post it here at Palmtalk.

 

Below is a photo of two coconuts I sprouted off my mother tree. This photo was taken Oct. 18, 2017. The second photo is one that I planted earlier this year. and it's planted in more of a protected location so that I won't have to protect it. It will probably grow slower and be more stretched in this location, but that's what it will have to be. The last photo is a screen save I took off Google Earth showing the extents of my property. I'm in a subdivision of mostly 1/4 acre lots, but I have two lots comprising 5.60 acres. I try to screen all my neighbors out. Also, I'm backed up to state preserve property that will never be developed, one reason I bought here 20+ years ago. My other offspring coconut is still in a pot, and I'm giving it to a palm friend that recently bought a home in St. Petersburg, Florida.

13 hours ago, Cluster said:

 

 

Coconut 10-18-17.JPG

Coconut offspring 9-21-18.jpg

1621 elm Terrace.png

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Mad about palms

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  • 2 months later...
On Tue Sep 25 2018 06:32:04 GMT+0800, Cluster said:

 

 

image.jpgThis is my coconut today, I'm really pleased with it.

Edited by sandgroper
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 25 September 2018 at 6:32:04 AM, Cluster said:

I went went down to the beach this morning and collected up some beach sand to do a bit of landscaping around the coconut, my wife won't like it but I do!

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@sandgroper Love your games room view!

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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  • 3 months later...

Well into Autumn here now and the coconut is growing nicely, I planted a small one alongside it in October, I think, and it has thickened up around the base considerably. 

1554623894699-1267109817.jpg

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On 1/6/2019 at 10:56 AM, sandgroper said:

The view from our dining room window.

image.jpg

Great idea with the sand - this looks very nice! May be I can arrange something similar in a corner of my garden. 

Best regards -

Lars

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've now got a proper tree! This palm is growing really well now, I'm very pleased with it.

image.jpg

image.jpg

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Wooooow! It has a ring or two! Nice!!!!!!

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Awesome awesome awesome!! I have a green growing in a pot. It’s young. My weather in summer is more extreme heat, but I think my winters are colder. This winter was brutal and unusually cold (5 night cold snap of -2c to 2c) I want to plant my in the ground with heating cables, but I’m not sure if that’ll work. 

Excellent work! Gives me inspiration!

 

Max

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3 minutes ago, AZPalms said:

Awesome awesome awesome!! I have a green growing in a pot. It’s young. My weather in summer is more extreme heat, but I think my winters are colder. This winter was brutal and unusually cold (5 night cold snap of -2c to 2c) I want to plant my in the ground with heating cables, but I’m not sure if that’ll work. 

Excellent work! Gives me inspiration!

 

Max

Stick it in the ground and have a go! At -2 your winters are definitely colder but it's still worth a shot, I've noticed that they get hardier as they get bigger, my climate is not quite right for a coconut either but with some careful nurturing when their small and over the cooler months you might have a win! It's fun trying to push the limits.

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3 hours ago, sandgroper said:

image.jpg

image.jpg

That's a beautiful cocos nucifera. Color and all. Fantastic job mate.

Edited by GottmitAlex

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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40 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

That's a beautiful cocos nucifera. Color and all. Fantastic job mate.

Thanks Alex, much appreciated mate!

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1 hour ago, Rickybobby said:

Everything looks great mate! Is your coco in pure sand? Or only sand on the top for looks?

It's just growing in sand mate, here the Swan coastal plain is essentially sand as its pretty much an ancient river basin. The white sand on top is just a few buckets of local beach sand I threw around for looks,  it's all very free draining with no added compost etc..

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I’ve never done it yet. But should I plant my next coconut seedling in just sand in the pot? Last time I used peat and perlite. But wasn’t good enough and was too soggy 

or stick to my coco coir perlite and clay pebble special?

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4 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

I’ve never done it yet. But should I plant my next coconut seedling in just sand in the pot? Last time I used peat and perlite. But wasn’t good enough and was too soggy 

or stick to my coco coir perlite and clay pebble special?

I've never grown one in a pot really, I've bought a couple in pots but have planted them in the ground. I'm going to try your method of germinating a coconut from the shop and if that works I'll pot it up for a couple of years before I plant it in the ground and I'll just use sand from the backyard as a potting mix. I actually began soaking two coconuts yesterday in a bucket with the aquarium heater so I'll let you know how it goes. 

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2 4 6 8

might be time to emigrate 

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Looking good mate. It reminds me of my old coconut before I left. It had about 6 clear rings if my memory serves me correct.

My old place was technically in the high 31S latitude and yours is slightly further north again. I think that once you are in the 31's with a bit of microclimate modification and being near the beach like you are, your chances of success begin to open up. You are riding that wave of success with your coconut.

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Looking good mate. It reminds me of my old coconut before I left. It had about 6 clear rings if my memory serves me correct.

My old place was technically in the high 31S latitude and yours is slightly further north again. I think that once you are in the 31's with a bit of microclimate modification and being near the beach like you are, your chances of success begin to open up. You are riding that wave of success with your coconut.

Thanks Tyrone, I've certainly tried hard with this one.

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Now it's trunking the next land mark is getting it to flower. 

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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