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sabalncfl

Possible wild S. Palmetto in New Hanover County, NC?

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sabalncfl

Off Ft. Fisher Boulevard (US 421) facing south near the ferry entrance.  Putting the googlemaps address since I am on mobile:

2121-2187 S Ft Fisher Blvd

Kure Beach, NC

I will check this spot and compare it to satellite signatures of Bald Head Island palms once I am at a computer.

13B90F1D-7070-43AA-B76A-BE3988749629.jpeg

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PalmTreeDude

It really does look like it. I found them too. 

20180330_185345.jpg

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kinzyjr

Anyone up there going to check it out?  The climate there seems to be hospitable for them.  Not sure what happened with that 0F mark in July (?):

 

201803310005_FortFisher_NC.png

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sabalncfl
8 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Anyone up there going to check it out?  The climate there seems to be hospitable for them.  Not sure what happened with that 0F mark in July (?):

 

201803310005_FortFisher_NC.png

I would if I still lived there. The southeast is experiencing perfect hiking weather this weekend.

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Anthony_B
1 hour ago, sabalncfl said:

I went to googlemaps on a computer, and there appears to be a third palm.

 

sabalftfisher.tiff

sabalftfisherzoom.tiff

Wow, that third one is definitely a palmetto.  I'm fairly close to here - I live in Leland.  It wouldn't be any difficulty at all getting through the woods to the first two possible palmettos because they're close to the road, but getting way back to that third, which is definitely a palmetto in my opinion, would be virtually impossible on foot.

 

This would have been a cool exploration back in January when everything was so cold, but now everything is blooming, bugs are out, pollen is everywhere...it won't be fun trying to trek through those woods.  It is really thick back there.

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Anthony_B

And for the record, I started a thread awhile back exploring this topic.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/54326-the-bald-head-island-most-northern-palm-myth/&page=1

It any of these are in fact palmettos, and that third one definitely is in my opinion, they would be the current most northbound record at:

33°57'32.5"N 77°56'12.9"W
(33.959033, -77.936912)

Edited by Anthony_B
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frienduvafrond

I will be visiting my parents tomorrow at Kure beach. I'll have a look, but all I have is a phone camera. They are most likely not from the stand of Palmetto on Bald Head. I am sure they have come up from seed derived from the influx of palmettos here since the mid to late 90's.(Florida?). They grow like weeds here now and there are Palmettos I have watched grow from seed since the late 90's,  It is not unusual to find 20' to 25' Palmettos here that  came up from seed, so they are "wild", but not indigenous. I have lived in the Wilmington area since 1981,  I also have worked as a landscaper that whole time. There used to be a restaraunt in town that had some original BHI palmettos, for years (1981-1995ish) they were pretty much the only Palmettos here. When they tore down the building several years ago someone moved them i assume. 

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PalmTreeDude

The third one has to be a palmetto, from what I see when comparing it to other known ones. This is a great find and a great thread. 

20180331_140045.jpg

20180331_140452.jpg

Edited by PalmTreeDude
Pictures Added
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sabalncfl
1 hour ago, PalmTreeDude said:

The third one has to be a palmetto, from what I see when comparing it to other known ones. This is a great find and a great thread. 

The first two could be mature S. minor and it seems like this area would be a good place for them to grow under tree canopy.  On satellite from what I've seen however S. minor isn't that plump.  They're similar to presentation of saw palmetto that you'd see in FL.

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TexasColdHardyPalms

There a lot of snakes over there?

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frienduvafrond

Had'nt seen the snakes or alligators moving around yet. These might be on Federal Govt land though not sure. There is a military buffer zone there at Kure beach.  We may need a drone.

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Anthony_B
8 hours ago, frienduvafrond said:

I will be visiting my parents tomorrow at Kure beach. I'll have a look, but all I have is a phone camera. They are most likely not from the stand of Palmetto on Bald Head. I am sure they have come up from seed derived from the influx of palmettos here since the mid to late 90's.(Florida?). They grow like weeds here now and there are Palmettos I have watched grow from seed since the late 90's,  It is not unusual to find 20' to 25' Palmettos here that  came up from seed, so they are "wild", but not indigenous. I have lived in the Wilmington area since 1981,  I also have worked as a landscaper that whole time. There used to be a restaraunt in town that had some original BHI palmettos, for years (1981-1995ish) they were pretty much the only Palmettos here. When they tore down the building several years ago someone moved them i assume. 

I might argue that - that "third" potential palmetto is very, very close to Bald Head Island.  It is only a few miles north just over the county line.  I could easily see seed making it that tiny distance north, and certainly a lot further.  We are talking just barely over the Brunswick County line into New Hanover County.  If this is confirmed, I could see this being an official NC native, adding New Hanover County to the "official" list.

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Anthony_B

I am really interested in finding out, but now that the seasons changed and the ground is warm and the bugs are out, this looks like a really, really unpleasant 1,000+ foot hike.  I'm not convinced you can even walk this.  You may make it a couple hundred feet in and sink.

Untitled.png

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frienduvafrond
8 hours ago, Anthony_B said:

I might argue that - that "third" potential palmetto is very, very close to Bald Head Island.  It is only a few miles north just over the county line.  I could easily see seed making it that tiny distance north, and certainly a lot further.  We are talking just barely over the Brunswick County line into New Hanover County.  If this is confirmed, I could see this being an official NC native, adding New Hanover County to the "official" list.

I did'nt say it was impossibe, just unlikely.  I do not know how to differentiate at BHI sabal from any other do you? It is certainly worth a look, and a pic.  I am willing to bet it is a Palmetto your seeing, just how will we know where it came from? If this was 1994 I would say it IS most likely BHI, but at this point how will we know?  Still I love a good adventure!

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frienduvafrond
8 hours ago, Anthony_B said:

I am really interested in finding out, but now that the seasons changed and the ground is warm and the bugs are out, this looks like a really, really unpleasant 1,000+ foot hike.  I'm not convinced you can even walk this.  You may make it a couple hundred feet in and sink.

Untitled.png

My brother-in-law has a kayak I can borrow. That third one looks accessible from the water eh? Let me find my boots. Do you want to meet today, we can try together? I will be at the parents house today. They live on "F" street in Kure, we can get together there, if not, I'll do my best with a phone camera.

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Yikes, that looks like water moccasin heaven (in Texas)....

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PalmatierMeg
48 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Yikes, that looks like water moccasin heaven (in Texas)....

They got them in NC too.

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sabalncfl

Moccasins, pygmy and diamondback rattlers as well

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frienduvafrond

The Brunswick county swamps have Green Mambas as well. In 37 years of shellfishing and landscaping I have seen a total of one rattlesnake. Copperheads mostly, although copperheads and water moccasins are basically the same snake. This is what "hip-wader" boots are for. ;-)  . Let us remember the King snake also, there are many down at Carolina Beach.

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PalmTreeDude

I wish I was there right now! This is exciting!  

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Bill H2DB

Drone ?

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awkonradi

Great thread.

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PalmTreeDude

I found more, look at 33.960856,-77.931675

Screenshot_20180401-120932_Maps.jpg

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sabalncfl

The more found in this region the more convinced I am they are natives, if they are indeed S. palmetto.

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PalmTreeDude
9 minutes ago, sabalncfl said:

The more found in this region the more convinced I am they are natives, if they are indeed S. palmetto.

I am honestly going to be shocked if they are not Sabal palmetto. They look just like the ones you see on Bald Head Island and in other known native areas. 

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sabalncfl
4 hours ago, frienduvafrond said:

I did'nt say it was impossibe, just unlikely.  I do not know how to differentiate at BHI sabal from any other do you? It is certainly worth a look, and a pic.  I am willing to bet it is a Palmetto your seeing, just how will we know where it came from? If this was 1994 I would say it IS most likely BHI, but at this point how will we know?  Still I love a good adventure!

BHI palms tend to be thick-trunked but depending on how mature the palm is I don’t know how to cross-compare stands from other states.  Maybe if the drupes or seeds could be compared if there are any there.  Send them to Gary’s nursury in New Bern...

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Brad Mondel

We need a palmetto search party out there. 

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Anthony_B
9 hours ago, frienduvafrond said:

My brother-in-law has a kayak I can borrow. That third one looks accessible from the water eh? Let me find my boots. Do you want to meet today, we can try together? I will be at the parents house today. They live on "F" street in Kure, we can get together there, if not, I'll do my best with a phone camera.

I don't think I have the guts to find out what's lurking in that swamp.  Google satellite imagery makes it look simple but in reality I think it is grassy, muddy muck - the kind of stuff you can't get through on foot or in a boat.

 

I am wondering if it would honestly be easier to cut through the woods.  This looks like a potential entrance point.

Entrance.thumb.jpg.8c90a06019c9af2c9b2a5

According to Google's scale, we would potentially park at the pier, walk 1200 feet along the side of the road and then it's only a 425 ft walk pushing through the trees til we could see across that little swamp pond.

 

hike.thumb.jpg.3e89e974912520735d1445b3e

 

 

You live in Leland, too, huh?  I'm in Mallory Creek, we're probably neighbors.  We could potentially make history and add a new county to the list.  What do we get for being the discoverers of the most northern stand of trunking palms on the east coast?

 

 

Edited by Anthony_B
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Zeeth
19 minutes ago, Anthony_B said:

What do we get for being the discoverers of the most northern stand of trunking palms on the east coast?

You could probably get a publication out of it if you know who to talk to and do good documentation. 

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Anthony_B
5 hours ago, sabalncfl said:

BHI palms tend to be thick-trunked but depending on how mature the palm is I don’t know how to cross-compare stands from other states.  Maybe if the drupes or seeds could be compared if there are any there.  Send them to Gary’s nursury in New Bern...

 

I took these pictures at BHI last year.  These are some of the native sabal palmetto.  You can tell they've been there for a very long time because their trunks are completely clear.

1.thumb.jpg.618002ef8aab3e8948d7836a3784

 

2.thumb.jpg.271eae4729a424a4bc8c30a7f70c

 

3.thumb.jpg.85ad5dbc2e42458c9af81b405109

 

4.thumb.jpg.23d7b72b56cf4885395e93c01e73

 

5.thumb.jpg.2bfff9b6e0bf80fd0edb7500144a

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Anthony_B
10 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

You could probably get a publication out of it if you know who to talk to and do good documentation. 

I was kidding.  I have a pretty good mirrorless camera and I'm pretty OK at editing HDR imagery (as evident from the BHI photos above - the 5th photo on the bottom is a phone camera shot, the other 4 are photos I took with my actual camera and processed).  This is barely a 30 minute drive from my house, and documenting the exact GPS coordinates is a piece of cake.  I feel like I should just take one for the team, suck it up, throw on some long pants and workboots and take a walk.  I am taking the PE exam in 2 weekends so my days are shot til April 13th, but after that I don't really have any excuse as to why I can't hop in the car and give it a shot.

 

Off topic, but this is probably my favorite shot I took of Old Baldy.  Such a cool island.7.thumb.jpg.13db710d6dabc29111b2ebde7cb2

 

 

Edited by Anthony_B

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frienduvafrond

20180401_170319-1.jpg

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frienduvafrond

20180401_165857.jpg

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frienduvafrond

20180401_165613.jpg

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sabalncfl

Was this the location of the third palm?

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sabalncfl

I know UNCW studies the ecosystem at the BHI conservatory, maybe someone there would be a good person to talk to.

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frienduvafrond

Best I could do y'all. These would be possibly the first two Palms, that third is gonna be a hard one to get to. I paced myself at approximately 200' in.  My son took the pics with his fancy phone. They are surely there, it is thick and nasty in there though. I'm kind of new at this, forgot to look for seeds. They have huge petioles trying to stretch out of the woods , that was awesome. Climbed a tree but could not see that third one, forgot the binoculars.  A good day.

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sabalncfl
18 minutes ago, frienduvafrond said:

Best I could do y'all. These would be possibly the first two Palms, that third is gonna be a hard one to get to. I paced myself at approximately 200' in.  My son took the pics with his fancy phone. They are surely there, it is thick and nasty in there though. I'm kind of new at this, forgot to look for seeds. They have huge petioles trying to stretch out of the woods , that was awesome. Climbed a tree but could not see that third one, forgot the binoculars.  A good day.

Maybe another day someone can go after the third, and maybe the possible others identified.  Thanks for checking it out.  I noticed this spot and made an account here, took a while for the confirmation to get to me.  If I were still in the Wilmington area I’d have tried to get there to verify.

Edited by sabalncfl

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