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GottmitAlex

Western hemisphere: were are we regarding B.Alfredii seeds?

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GottmitAlex

Have our 12-15 year old B.alfredii produced any seeds yet?

 

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DoomsDave

I don’t think any are quite that old yet.

My Thee Amigos are 9 years old, not even close to trunking from what I can see.

Maybe they’re faster in Florida or Hawaii?

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PalmatierMeg

Slow for me too. The two surviving palms are nowhere near trunking. B. madagascariensis is also very slow for me.

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TexasColdHardyPalms

One was flowering at Kopsik in Tampa last year.  I posted a picture somewhere on here.

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RedRabbit
1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

One was flowering at Kopsik in Tampa last year.  I posted a picture somewhere on here.

That was a madagascariensis. Kopsik doesn't have any alfredii that I'm aware of.

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GottmitAlex

Ok, I get it. So, uhm, how far we from achieving seeds?

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Hammer
1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Ok, I get it. So, uhm, how far we from achieving seeds?

 

Hard to tell but likely a ways off.  Largest Alfie I have seen in person is Jeff Searle's.   It is not even trunking yet. Or wasn't when I saw it 2 years ago.

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richnorm
2 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Ok, I get it. So, uhm, how far we from achieving seeds?

Of course it's a guess but at least a decade?  And I think you will need boy and girl.

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GottmitAlex

To my limited knowledge they are self-pollinating. And I believe it's been.more than a decade since the first ones have sprouted stateside....

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richnorm
23 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

To my limited knowledge they are self-pollinating. And I believe it's been.more than a decade since the first ones have sprouted stateside....

I checked, they do bear male and female flowers, I must have been thinking Ravenea!  To make seed they would need both sexes to be ready at the same time but they look to produce a lot of inflorescences so the chances are increased.  Yes, about 10 years here too but not even close to trunking.  Maybe the Florida plants that came in before general availability are getting close?

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Moose
13 hours ago, Hammer said:

 

Hard to tell but likely a ways off.  Largest Alfie I have seen in person is Jeff Searle's.   It is not even trunking yet. Or wasn't when I saw it 2 years ago.

Notice the silence? I'm not saying anything :mellow:

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TexasColdHardyPalms

@RedRabbit, my bad then.

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Zeeth
19 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

That was a madagascariensis. Kopsik doesn't have any alfredii that I'm aware of.

They recently got one that's near the tennis court but it's pretty small. I donated one last year along with an Attalea colenda and a Nawasi x Red Spicata coconut hybrid that should be going into the ground this spring. 

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GottmitAlex

So, factually, what is the current age of the oldest known Alfredii in the States?

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Zeeth
7 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

So, factually, what is the current age of the oldest known Alfredii in the States?

14 years old. 

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GottmitAlex
3 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

14 years old. 

Thank you. So these take 20+ years to seed?

How about height? How tall is the 14 year old?  Any trunk? 

By what I'm reading, I get the feeling it grows like a P.Chilensis..

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Zeeth
22 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Thank you. So these take 20+ years to seed?

How about height? How tall is the 14 year old?  Any trunk? 

By what I'm reading, I get the feeling it grows like a P.Chilensis..

I haven't seen it in years so I'm not sure how tall it is. It seemed pretty close to trunking when I was there in 2015, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's getting pretty close to seeding now. 

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DoomsDave

So, I gather that the consensus is, this ain't no racehorse. B. alfie, that is.

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GottmitAlex
45 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

So, I gather that the consensus is, this ain't no racehorse. B. alfie, that is.

From the pulse of the forum, that is what I am understanding as well.

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DoomsDave
Just now, GottmitAlex said:

From the pulse of the forum, that is what I am understanding as well.

This delayed gratification [stuff] gets to be a pain in the ass sometimes.

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GottmitAlex
4 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

This delayed gratification [stuff] gets to be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Hahahaha! So true!

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RedRabbit
9 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

@RedRabbit, my bad then.

All good, I always thought the Beccariophoenix at Kopsick were alfredii too. Eventually someone pointed out to me they were really madagascariensis, but I don't know if you can tell the difference just by looking at them.

This does make me wonder though... If there's a slower growing madagascariensis that has flowered in Kopsick you'd think there should be a seeding alfredii somewhere over here right? :hmm:

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Zeeth
5 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

All good, I always thought the Beccariophoenix at Kopsick were alfredii too. Eventually someone pointed out to me they were really madagascariensis, but I don't know if you can tell the difference just by looking at them.

This does make me wonder though... If there's a slower growing madagascariensis that has flowered in Kopsick you'd think there should be a seeding alfredii somewhere over here right? :hmm:

The biggest difference is that B. mad has been around a lot longer than B. alfredii. B. mad was rediscovered back in the '80s, whereas B. alfredii was discovered in 2004, but not really commercially available until 2007. 

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RedRabbit
4 hours ago, Zeeth said:

The biggest difference is that B. mad has been around a lot longer than B. alfredii. B. mad was rediscovered back in the '80s, whereas B. alfredii was discovered in 2004, but not really commercially available until 2007. 

I had no idea B alfredii was so much newer in cultivation. Thanks for sharing that.

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Zeeth
42 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I had no idea B alfredii was so much newer in cultivation. Thanks for sharing that.

It's even newer as a species. B. madagascariensis was first discovered in 1911, but was thought to have gone extinct, with the last sighting in 1947 in Fort-Dauphin. It was rediscovered in 1986 in Andasibe. It's also been re-discovered in the Fort-Dauphin area, which is where the "Coastal" form comes from. The B. madagascariensis from the palms in Fort-Dauphin occur at sea-level on white sands and have infrafoliar inflorescences with short peduncles. The ones in the rainforest in Andasibe occur at high elevations (1,000 meters), and have interfoliar inflorescences with long peduncles. Otherwise they're identical. 

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Gonzer
12 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

This delayed gratification [stuff] gets to be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Think of all the other stuff that you'd accomplish growing in 20 years. That's 20 years of your life you ain't gettin' back Jack.

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Moose

My B Alfredi is painfully slow. Perhaps too much shade. Slowly plugging along.

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mike in kurtistown

Report from Hawaii. Seeds germinated July 2007. 5 1/2 years in the ground. Sorry no trunk or flowers. There are at least two Becc fenestralis locally that have been flowering and seeding, both much older than these Becc alfredii. 5-gal bucket for scale.

5abfdaed6295a_Beccariophoenixalfredii_ML

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GottmitAlex

11 years since germination.. Good info. Thank you. 

Well they should have named it B. alfredii-chilensis. 

I have both a Fenestralis and an alfredii in my yard, planted. The fenestralis is faster growing than the alfredii.  I guess, by the habitat poctures, the "magic ingredient" for the alfredii is to have its roots partially in a stream.  And who really knows their ages? For all we know they could be 100+ years old.

 

Edited by GottmitAlex
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Mostapha

This is my B.alfredii, grown potted inside, in upstate N.Y.  First seed  germination was January of 2017. I know along way to go yet. This picture is about 2 months old, and still growing well. Can't wait until my weather permits it to be outside for the season.1518640430630800817778.thumb.jpg.3cbb579

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Palmarum
On 3/30/2018, 1:29:02, Hammer said:

Hard to tell but likely a ways off.  Largest Alfie I have seen in person is Jeff Searle's.   It is not even trunking yet. Or wasn't when I saw it 2 years ago.

I was out at the nursery today and remembered this topic. I couldn't remember the last time I photographed the Beccariophoenix alfredii outside of an event, but here he is as of today. No flowers, no inflorescences yet, but he will probably flower when no one is watching. 

- Full view. He manages to gain a tiny bit of spread while slowly gaining height. This is probably the full spread he will have. The shadehouse in behind is 15 ft. (4.5m) tall and was surpassed as a benchmark a short while ago. Jeff Searle provides scale from one photo...

DSC_0832.thumb.JPG.c4e5338139669740f8b1dDSC_0835.thumb.JPG.91137b6823d357b494597

- ... to the next, as he gives the palm a big hug. It provides a good amount of shade for the landscape bed and a portion of the nearby road.

DSC_0837.thumb.JPG.d9044f82d42bca595223aDSC_0831.thumb.JPG.3049e521c6ef7ce518bb6

- The palm does have visible trunk mixed with persistent leaf bases. Some of them are trapped by a growing root boss made of adventitious roots. We had never thought of cleaning or trimming any of the material at the bottom. With Jeff wielding his shoe, he began kicking and pushing off the loose leaf bases...

DSC_0839.thumb.JPG.8d265021e7144f5f4b05cDSC_0840.thumb.JPG.1f9fea509e95691cbbfbeDSC_0841.thumb.JPG.1a23becdcc073a9110f5d

- New trunk seemed to form right before my eyes. There could have been more removed with tools, but this was the first try with a shoe.

DSC_0842.thumb.JPG.10fed1503fb6e084b1d24DSC_0843.thumb.JPG.8f39813f79a7050c36751DSC_0844.thumb.JPG.6209993867d0377bd8767DSC_0845.thumb.JPG.7d290afd7ac485d3461c0

- I forgot to ask Jeff when it was planted, as he has it written down somewhere. The species is a winner for sure. When it does flower, I am guessing it may do so with a few feet of trunk, but anything is possible. The book is constantly being written on this palm, which is the fun part.

DSC_0846.thumb.JPG.718820d7d476290b83ef9DSC_0847.thumb.JPG.490d337f74973c8b2d8c5DSC_0848.thumb.JPG.b824b19feb2dde0a8a137

Ryan

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Hammer
6 hours ago, Palmarum said:

I was out at the nursery today and remembered this topic. I couldn't remember the last time I photographed the Beccariophoenix alfredii outside of an event, but here he is as of today. No flowers, no inflorescences yet, but he will probably flower when no one is watching. 

- Full view. He manages to gain a tiny bit of spread while slowly gaining height. This is probably the full spread he will have. The shadehouse in behind is 15 ft. (4.5m) tall and was surpassed as a benchmark a short while ago. Jeff Searle provides scale from one photo...

DSC_0832.thumb.JPG.c4e5338139669740f8b1dDSC_0835.thumb.JPG.91137b6823d357b494597

- ... to the next, as he gives the palm a big hug. It provides a good amount of shade for the landscape bed and a portion of the nearby road.

DSC_0837.thumb.JPG.d9044f82d42bca595223aDSC_0831.thumb.JPG.3049e521c6ef7ce518bb6

- The palm does have visible trunk mixed with persistent leaf bases. Some of them are trapped by a growing root boss made of adventitious roots. We had never thought of cleaning or trimming any of the material at the bottom. With Jeff wielding his shoe, he began kicking and pushing off the loose leaf bases...

DSC_0839.thumb.JPG.8d265021e7144f5f4b05cDSC_0840.thumb.JPG.1f9fea509e95691cbbfbeDSC_0841.thumb.JPG.1a23becdcc073a9110f5d

- New trunk seemed to form right before my eyes. There could have been more removed with tools, but this was the first try with a shoe.

DSC_0842.thumb.JPG.10fed1503fb6e084b1d24DSC_0843.thumb.JPG.8f39813f79a7050c36751DSC_0844.thumb.JPG.6209993867d0377bd8767DSC_0845.thumb.JPG.7d290afd7ac485d3461c0

- I forgot to ask Jeff when it was planted, as he has it written down somewhere. The species is a winner for sure. When it does flower, I am guessing it may do so with a few feet of trunk, but anything is possible. The book is constantly being written on this palm, which is the fun part.

DSC_0846.thumb.JPG.718820d7d476290b83ef9DSC_0847.thumb.JPG.490d337f74973c8b2d8c5DSC_0848.thumb.JPG.b824b19feb2dde0a8a137

Ryan

Thanks Ryan.  This is an awesome post!!!!  I love that angle with the Cocos in the background.   Amazing how much they look alike in person.

Edited by Hammer
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