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My jamaican/Atlantic tall seedling is about to kick the bucket..


GottmitAlex

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Checking out the five coconuts in the narrow garden strip, the one which gets the least amount of sunlight is dying. Reminiscent of my late green Malaya dwarf which perished last year of root rot is this jamaican tall seedling presenting the same symptoms: pronounced penciling, mushy, waxy feel on the leaves and the spear is very wobbly.

Any help/pointers is appreciated. 

The other four coconuts seem very healthy.

Here are the pictures:

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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@GottmitAlex What have the temperatures and humidity been like in that section?  Has there been any disturbance to the root area?

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Alex,

It actually doesn't look all that bad to me.  With that said, I have lost 3 Jamaican Talls that were previously healthy.  I found out the hard way, that they DON'T like their roots disturbed when they are young, therefore, it is not a good idea to plant them when they are under about 7ft. or 8ft. tall, or bigger.  I would like to try another one, but this time, I will grow it in a pot till it is about 8ft. tall.  And I only want one from the northernmost part of their range in Florida, such as Clearwater on the Gulf Coast or New Smyrna Beach on the Atlantic Coast for more cold hardiness over the ones from further south.  Where did you get yours from and how long has it been in the ground?  What are the coldest temps you have had there this winter?  You might try applying some Bonide Copper Fungicide for Organic Gardening at the rate of 1 ounce per gallon of water, placed in a hand held spray bottle and used to douse the crown and bud area really good, then applied again a week or so later.  Good luck.

John

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4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@GottmitAlex What have the temperatures and humidity been like in that section?  Has there been any disturbance to the root area?

Tarps have been down since the first week of this month. It rained this weekend. Temps in the 50's. Roots have not been disturbed. The palm has been in that same spot since Feb 2017.

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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2 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Alex,

It actually doesn't look all that bad to me.  With that said, I have lost 3 Jamaican Talls that were previously healthy.  I found out the hard way, that they DON'T like their roots disturbed when they are young, therefore, it is not a good idea to plant them when they are under about 7ft. or 8ft. tall, or bigger.  I would like to try another one, but this time, I will grow it in a pot till it is about 8ft. tall.  And I only want one from the northernmost part of their range in Florida, such as Clearwater on the Gulf Coast or New Smyrna Beach on the Atlantic Coast for more cold hardiness over the ones from further south.  Where did you get yours from and how long has it been in the ground?  What are the coldest temps you have had there this winter?  You might try applying some Bonide Copper Fungicide for Organic Gardening at the rate of 1 ounce per gallon of water, placed in a hand held spray bottle and used to douse the crown and bud area really good, then applied again a week or so later.  Good luck.

John

Thanks John. I will try copper fungicide. Ordering it now. The palm has been in that spot since Feb 2017. So root disturbance is out if the question. It does not get any sunlight. Only indirect illumination.  I honestly thought this was one of my toughest and resilient cocos. Just because of its demeanor: sturdy, pronounced green (Hulk green), mostly pinnate leaves, huge husk, large tap root. What can I say?  

Two months ago residual liquid cement was pushed into its plot. About two gallons worth...  a careless helper...

Still. I don't attribute this to that dreadful event.  The plot us comprised of pure coarse sand. 1 meter deep of it.  This is something else. And yes, it is/was my only Jamaican..... I have a pair of pacific greens, one golden Mexican tall and one Malayan golden dwarf. 

 

Coldest temps: 5.4c. 

 

Edited by GottmitAlex

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Hello Alex,

When you say temperatures in the 50s, is that the high or average and how many days more or less? Has it been raining too much? 

Hope it makes it.

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29 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Hello Alex,

When you say temperatures in the 50s, is that the high or average and how many days more or less? Has it been raining too much? 

Hope it makes it.

Those were our lows.

It rained a bit heavily on Saturday.

As I mentioned, I took down the tarps early this month and well, I should have protected at least this little guy since it is situated closest to the carport and receives very little sunlight. Slap onto that my neighbors new second story construction to its immediate south, well, all I can say is I dropped the ball on this one. Casualty of war I guess. I get the liquid copper tomorrow. Meanwhile, I bathed it in daconil... yes, the Jamaican tall is looking worse by the hour...  ironic, but the storebought, dehusked Mexican golden tall coco (still bifid) which is 5 ft from the jamaican/Atlantic tall is doing splendidly. 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Those lows are actually high for cali standards, it can't be the cold. You should not be afraid of rain if you have good drainage, if you protect your palms from the rain they might become too "greenhoused". Besides looking at Tijuana climate it seems rain is always scarce there! Weird that this is happening to the Jamaican, would you say your winter was cooler than normal?

Edited by Cluster
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21 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Those lows are actually high for cali standards, it can't be the cold. You should not be afraid of rain if you have good drainage, if you protect your palms from the rain they might become too "greenhoused". Besides looking at Tijuana climate it seems rain is always scarce there! Weird that this is happening to the Jamaican, would you say your winter was cooler than normal?

Not this winter. This season was not inclement at all. Probably the warmest winter in years. I see your point about the "greenhouse" dependancy. Mskes perfect sense. 3x3x3ft of pure coarse sand. The moisture meter right now is at 2 (out of 10). If this guy survives till tomorrow I'm pouring that copper around the husk and due to the medium, the liquid should hit the roots with the utmost haste.

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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As you can see the penciling is getting worse, the leaflets are thinning out and the texture of the green is quite  spongy.

The white stuff on it is daconil. Analogously it's probably not even a band aid. That's what I had handy and the home Depot down here does not stock liquid copper fungicide.  Amazon'd it next day... hope it makes it.

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Edited by GottmitAlex

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Here's a pic of the garden.

Getting cloudy, Temps are at 73f.

 

20180321_172735.jpg

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018‎ ‎5‎:‎17‎:‎31‎, PalmTreeDude said:

I am surprised anything is wrong with these, with the lows being in the 50s. 

I agree.  It is puzzling what has happened to it.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018‎ ‎5‎:‎34‎:‎27‎, GottmitAlex said:

Not this winter. This season was not inclement at all. Probably the warmest winter in years. I see your point about the "greenhouse" dependancy. Mskes perfect sense. 3x3x3ft of pure coarse sand. The moisture meter right now is at 2 (out of 10). If this guy survives till tomorrow I'm pouring that copper around the husk and due to the medium, the liquid should hit the roots with the utmost haste.

 

Alex,

Don't apply it at full strength.  Remember apply it a rate of 1 ounce or 1.5 ounces per gallon of water at the most, then apply if with a hand held sprayer all over the crown (drench the crown).  I have seen severely injured coconut palms and date palms come back from bud rot like this!  It looks like yours has developed bud rot for some reason.

John

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Thanks John. Will do.

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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13 hours ago, rprimbs said:

My Cocos looked like that after some cold weather damage.  Then it died.

It was probably bud rot, which they can get under such conditions, which is why I apply Bonide Copper Fungicide for Organic Gardening at a rate of 1 ounce per gallon of water, then sprayed on the crown (drenching it) a couple of times each winter.  You don't want to do it too much though, or else your palms could develop a copper toxicity.

John

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7 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Thanks John. Will do.

You're welcome, Alex.  Good  luck.  I hope it makes it, but if not, try a Green Variety of Hawaiian Tall (as opposed to the typical Golden Variety of Hawaiian Tall that most people are familiar with).  I think it was a Green Hawaiian Tall that made it 27+ years along the Coast in Southern California that most of us Palmtalkers are familiar with, so it should do well in your climate there.  Also, Keith on here from Palmetto, Florida has a juvenile one that made it through 27F without much problem and has made it through some chilly winters there.  I think it has not only more cold tolerance for freezing weather, but also chilly (non freezing) tolerance too.

John

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1 minute ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

You're welcome, Alex.  Good  luck.  I hope it makes it, but if not, try a Green Variety of Hawaiian Tall (as opposed to the typical Golden Variety of Hawaiian Tall that most people are familiar with).  I think it was a Green Hawaiian Tall that made it 27+ years along the Coast in Southern California that most of us Palmtalkers are familiar with, so it should do well in your climate there.  Also, Keith on here from Palmetto, Florida has a juvenile one that made it through 27F without much problem and has made it through some chilly winters there.  I think it has not only more cold tolerance for freezing weather, but also chilly (non freezing) tolerance too.

John

I already placed an order for a Haari Papua semi-dwarf "red Tahiti" coco jus in case. I would love to get my hands on a true Fiji dwarf. But alas, those are very difficult to come by.   I think at this point I will desist on any future tall varieties. Thinking long-term here.

Alex

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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1 minute ago, GottmitAlex said:

I already placed an order for a Haari Papua semi-dwarf "red Tahiti" coco jus in case. I would love to get my hands on a true Fiji dwarf. But alas, those are very difficult to come by.   I think at this point I will desist on any future tall varieties. Thinking long-term here.

Alex

Wow!  It's the talls that have reputation for being somewhat more cold hardy, but my big Green Malayan Dwarf has hung on for two very cold freezing winters (by coastal Corpus Christi standards that is), so it would be worth trying one of them too.  And the Malayans are self pollinating and start producing only about 4 to 5 years after sprouting!

John

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Wow!  It's the talls that have reputation for being somewhat more cold hardy, but my big Green Malayan Dwarf has hung on for two very cold freezing winters (by coastal Corpus Christi standards that is), so it would be worth trying one of them too.  And the Malayans are self pollinating and start producing only about 4 to 5 years after sprouting!

John

I hear ya. Same thing is happening in my neck of the woods. My golden Malayan dwarf is booming. Is has the best build, girth and size of any of my other cocos. It was the easiest to protect. So Carpe Diem, I say.

thankso again  John

Alex

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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55 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I agree.  It is puzzling what has happened to it.

 

This may sound like a mechanics cliché. But this is one for the books.

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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49 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

I hear ya. Same thing is happening in my neck of the woods. My golden Malayan dwarf is booming. Is has the best build, girth and size of any of my other cocos. It was the easiest to protect. So Carpe Diem, I say.

thankso again  John

Alex

You're welcome, Alex.

 

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44 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

This may sound like a mechanics cliché. But this is one for the books.

 

Yep, I suppose so!

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2 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I already placed an order for a Haari Papua semi-dwarf "red Tahiti" coco jus in case. I would love to get my hands on a true Fiji dwarf. But alas, those are very difficult to come by.   I think at this point I will desist on any future tall varieties. Thinking long-term here.

Alex

Sounds good.  I got a Fiji Dwarf shipped to me from a guy in Pine Island, Florida that I met on Facebook.  He said the ones in his area actually fared better than a lot of the other more typical varieties during the 2010 freezes!  Also, Keith in Palmetto, Florida, said his didn't fare any worse than his other varieties during the freeze this winter.  Up till I heard these things, I though they were way too cold sensitive to try here, but when mine is about 8ft. tall, I will plant it in the ground on the south side of my house right by my big Green Malayan Dwarf.

John

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18 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

It was probably bud rot, which they can get under such conditions, which is why I apply Bonide Copper Fungicide for Organic Gardening at a rate of 1 ounce per gallon of water, then sprayed on the crown (drenching it) a couple of times each winter.  You don't want to do it too much though, or else your palms could develop a copper toxicity.

John

I employed the Bonide copper fungicide 

I went a little over an ounce in gallon. Poured a tad through the crown the remainder in the soild immediately around the husk. 

The fungicide's color is a bubble gum/toxic blue.

 

Here's hoping.

 

Edited by GottmitAlex
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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Just as it is with many threads on the forum, will this palm come back from the dead?

20180323_162809.jpg

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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I wonder if the Malan dwarfs, pacific /Mexican talls, against popular opinion, are more resilient towards subtropical/temperate climates than are the atlantic/Jamaican tall var. coconuts... 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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6 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I employed the Bonide copper fungicide 

I went a little over an ounce in gallon. Poured a tad through the crown the remainder in the soild immediately around the husk. 

The fungicide's color is a bubble gum/toxic blue.

 

Here's hoping.

 

Yeah Alex, I hope it makes it, but it may be too late.  It's best to apply the copper fungicide at the very first sign of symptoms like yours has.  But let's hope anyway.  I just wonder what affected it that didn't affect your others?  This is a puzzle to us all!  Could anyone at your house or your neighbor have sprayed anything around it that might have done this to it, like any kind of herbicide or other poison?

John

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2 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I wonder if the Malan dwarfs, pacific /Mexican talls, against popular opinion, are more resilient towards subtropical/temperate climates than are the atlantic/Jamaican tall var. coconuts... 

Good question.  So far, the ONLY Coconut Palms I have gotten to survive a single winter, much less, two winters here at my place, are Green Malayan Dwarfs, and my big one has survived 8 freezes, with some nights in the uppers 20'sF for hours on end over the last two REALLY COLD (as opposed to normal) winters here!

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Makes no sense with such warm winter. Might have had some serious fungi that decided to visit that one for some reason. Maybe this is an outlier.

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1 hour ago, Cluster said:

Makes no sense with such warm winter. Might have had some serious fungi that decided to visit that one for some reason. Maybe this is an outlier.

Thus is my assessment as well.

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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2 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Yeah Alex, I hope it makes it, but it may be too late.  It's best to apply the copper fungicide at the very first sign of symptoms like yours has.  But let's hope anyway.  I just wonder what affected it that didn't affect your others?  This is a puzzle to us all!  Could anyone at your house or your neighbor have sprayed anything around it that might have done this to it, like any kind of herbicide or other poison?

John

The others are in top form! Even the 11 month-old Mexican golden tall (completely bifid) is just growing, thriving, without skipping a beat.

  • Upvote 1

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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2 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Yeah Alex, I hope it makes it, but it may be too late.  It's best to apply the copper fungicide at the very first sign of symptoms like yours has.  But let's hope anyway.  I just wonder what affected it that didn't affect your others?  This is a puzzle to us all!  Could anyone at your house or your neighbor have sprayed anything around it that might have done this to it, like any kind of herbicide or other poison?

John

The neighbors..... Ok. Speculation.... I am stumped ...

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎48‎:‎54‎, GottmitAlex said:

The others are in top form! Even the 11 month-old Mexican golden tall (completely bifid) is just growing, thriving, without skipping a beat.

Yeah, that's what's weird, Alex!  The others are fine!

John

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  • 3 months later...
On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2018‎ ‎7‎:‎29‎:‎44‎, GottmitAlex said:

Just as it is with many threads on the forum, will this palm come back from the dead?

20180323_162809.jpg

  • :bemused:

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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2 hours ago, Moose said:
  • :bemused:

It's dead, Jim.

PassionateWarpedGuernseycow-size_restricted.gif

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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2 hours ago, Moose said:
  • :bemused:

This Red Tahiti Dwarf has since replaced it. 

20180701_122611.jpg

20180701_122515.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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