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Any palms for 7a?


Jotoqi

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Your choice is limited. Top choices that have a chance to do well for you are Rhapidophyllum hystrix (needle palm) and Sabal minor. Both are native to SE US and are usually stemless so are able to survive winters that kill trunked palms. They are considered the first and second most cold hardy palms in the world by most palm experts. The trade-off for their cold hardiness is that they require long hot, humid summers. East Coast summers are perfect for them. Sabal minor will take all the sun exposure you can give it. Needle palms prefer some shade in the hottest part of the afternoon, at least in FL. Sabal minor is also nifty in that it comes in many variations from different states, including ultra dwarfs from FL & TX. I have currently have Blountstown, Wakulla, Chipola & High Springs ultra dwarfs from FL & Welfare ultra dwarf from TX. They are hard to find but I located them at Plant Delights Nursery in NC. In 2004 they offered seedlings of Sabal minor Castor Dwarf but not since but I'd love to find that one. I believe the cold hardiest form comes from McCurtain County, OK and PDN carries that. However, I believe some members of the forum may be able to send seeds.

In the spring check local nurseries and garden centers. You may be able to find needles or Sabal minors for sale. Another possibility for a trunking palm could be something in the genus Trachycarpus. I can't help you there as I can't grow them - my summers are too hot and long for them. But I know palm growers further north have better luck with them. Maybe they can chime in.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I can tell you that trachycarpus might work out when older, but if you have a true 7a winter event like we did it will test them for sure! Out of 7 HD(probably nursery or Florida grown) trachycarpus I planted 5 have spear pulled and look relatively fried after the events in jan. The other two look mildly stressed and spears all intact and firm. They have seen days (not hours) well bellow 20F in their first winter and even seen some bellow 15F for less than desirable time frames. I also did plant these in my most brutal microclimate on the property save for out in the middle of the yard, so that has definitely played a role. Had I planted on the east side where it rarely if ever freezes Id likely be singing a different toon. The funny thing is the least healthy looking of the sets I planted are the ones doing the best. Spring will tell the true story though.

 

Honestly I have been told they are considerably more hardy once they are around 15g or 3ft or so of trunk and mine ranged from 5-6in to 10in of clear trunk so mine are too young for real zone 7 viability. If you go for a trachycarpus try and get the largest you can and help it root out for the entire growing season with good watering. Also place it in a eastern or southern placement away from northern or western winds. Youll likely want to protect it a little for bad weather the first year or so to acclimate. But in my newbie opinion I think trachycarpus, once a certain size and acclimated, can be full zone 7 hardy.  But take what I say with a grain of salt as Im still very much learning. 

 

But being a 6b Id say more than likely it will need protection most winters as this winter has shown. Had they seen 6b temps Im sure they'd be 100% fried. 

 

I cant say anything on rhapidophyllum or sabal minor, but I am in the process of trying to acquire some fine specimens of each for spring plantation. Those being so hardy I might even plant earlier than usual. I can however speak on some margnals like livistona chinensis (DO NOT RECOMMEND but will report perennial growth if it happens) and chamaerops humilis which I would not recommend for z6 at all and even z7 unless protected or in a super good microclimate. 

Edited by mdsonofthesouth

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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In your area, stick with Sabal Minor or Rhapidophyllum hystrix unless you plan on providing some level of protection.  Even with these two, you want them in sheltered spots (south side of your house or in an enclosed area).  You also want to ensure you are getting a variety of sabal minor from the northern part of their range such as 'McCurtain' from Oklahoma, or the variety that grows in Arkansas.  The varieties in Northern Alabama and inland Northern Georgia are pretty hardy as well, but a little harder to find.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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There is a variety of Sabal minor called Emerald Island Giant from NC, also carried by PDN.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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7A is very limited.  Various sabal minors, needles and a few Trachycarpus species, but the latter will need size on them before they an go at it without protection.  Nannorhorps looks to be a Zone 7B palm, not 7A as they start to burn at 5F.

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I want to try one of those Nova when they are ready here in zone 7 to compare with fortunei. Im really hopeful the faster growth will help it here. 

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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On 2/6/2018, 4:01:30, Jotoqi said:

I am in zone 7a and i’m wondering if there’s any hardy palms?

I can echo what the others here are telling you. Here in Oklahoma sabal minor and needle palms perform quite well even into areas that are 6b. That said, good siting is always a good idea if you can provide it. And be prepared for occasional damage. We slip below zero about 2 or 3 times a decade on average, so damage is pretty much a sure thing in those events. (Damage varies widely depending on a number of factors)

But there are large sabal minors in both Oklahoma City and Tulsa that have survived sub-zero temps. In one instance in 2011 OKC hit -5F and Tulsa hit -11F. The following spring I visited the zoos in both cities and noticed that many of the minors in Tulsa had burned completely (everything above the snow anyway) and still came back. Those temps can't be routine of course, but the point is they are very hardy palms. Well sited sabal minors and needle palms often show no damage at all after normal winter minimum temps that are in the single digits.

I hope that helps.

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Rhapidophylum hystrix is your best bet.  I grew it on Long Island for many years.  It even flowered and fruited.  I did keep it at the south wall of my house, and along the west greenhouse wall. But it was very reliable, even surviving the occasional five degree night.  I did place a fiberglass cover on it during winter, but I don't think it really would need that as long as the temperature stays above single digits.

Now I live in zone 9B and it's definitely better than LI!

Bruce

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My Rhapidophyllum spear-pulled last winter here at only -10C whereas my Waggy was unscathed. Absolute hardiness is not everything. The specific circumstances play a huge role too. Trachycarpus offer by far the best speed/hardiness ratio for cooler, wet climates like mine. Also, they are much more affordable.

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Yeah rhapidophyllum needs a hot humid summer.

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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  • 1 month later...

I live near Wichita, Kansas, and while the rural areas around here are solid 6b, the city itself is 7a. In the city, there are of course Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum specimens planted around, but there is a very ambitious groundskeeper at a church downtown growing much more. He has Sabal Louisiana, brazoria, Birmingham, even palmetto. He also grows a hybrid Trachycarpus that does very well. I will dig up pictures to share here...there are definitely some tough palms out there!

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El_Dorado.gif

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There are many suggestions on this thread... I will say I have been very successful keeping the windmill palms alive up here in the North East. We are based on Long Island, NY and I am getting to unwrap over 150 windmills palms that we wrap this past December. I will update you on how the trees did but if it was anything like the past two season I unwrapped trees I am sure they will all have survived this winter. I have not had a tree I wrapped die. I came up with any easy to set up and take down wrapping system, You can see it on our website. www.islandwidepalmtrees.com  Look under the palm cover page.  This past year we offered teh option to use  custom plastic cover or a custom made canvas cover. The canvas cover cost a lot more money but the good thing about it is that it has a zipper that you open up to inspect your tree thru-out the winter. Also the canvas is expanded as your tree grows.. You can add a two foot extension to it.  This next fall we are going to add another fabric that will be cheaper than the canvas. 

I am going to attach a picture of 5 windmill palm trees that have survived the past four winter (this winter will make 5 winters) here on Long Island.

Like it was also mentioned  I would plant a tree that is at least 4 foot tall or taller.

If I can help you out or if you have any questions give me a call  the number is on the website.

  

20170811_112755.jpg

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  • 2 years later...
On 2/6/2018 at 5:01 PM, Jotoqi said:

I am in zone 7a and i’m wondering if there’s any hardy palms?

Sabal Birmingham, or regular sabal palmetto with winter protection, don't forget chamerops.

Nothing to say here. 

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trachycarpus fortunie, sabal minor(mccurtain), trachycarpus wagrianis, needle palm, sabal birmingham. (bonus not a palm musa basjoo)

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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On 3/20/2018 at 6:06 PM, islandwidepalmtrees.com said:

20170811_112755.jpg

in my neighborhood we are not allowed to put trees on the sidewalk plot like that.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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On 2/7/2018 at 9:29 PM, kinzyjr said:

In your area, stick with Sabal Minor or Rhapidophyllum hystrix unless you plan on providing some level of protection.  Even with these two, you want them in sheltered spots (south side of your house or in an enclosed area).  You also want to ensure you are getting a variety of sabal minor from the northern part of their range such as 'McCurtain' from Oklahoma, or the variety that grows in Arkansas.  The varieties in Northern Alabama and inland Northern Georgia are pretty hardy as well, but a little harder to find.

what about Trachys and Sabal Birmingham.

Nothing to say here. 

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2 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

what about Trachys and Sabal Birmingham.

Trachycarpus do not seem to do well long term in zone 7a endless you are somewhere farther south. They are more of a zone 7b/8a palm overall, endless like I said you are farther south where freezing periods are more brief. I’m in a borderline zone 7a/7b area and even here they are not really common, but I do see them from time to time. Here is one that is pretty close to me that does good, but I’m farther south than Delaware. I wouldn’t consider myself to be in a southern zone 7 though, I personally think of “southern zones” being in North Carolina and south. As for Sabal Birmingham I don’t know too much about it. 

2B60C4A3-B778-485E-9667-63F849CBE680.jpeg

CD3AFA57-C0B4-4317-80EA-17A943076A46.jpeg

Edited by PalmTreeDude
Added text / Edited Text
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PalmTreeDude

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8 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

what about Trachys and Sabal Birmingham.

@PalmTreeDude explained it pretty well.

Sabal 'Birmingham' is a good question.  The averages in the area look decent enough for Rhapidophyllum hystrix and Sabal minor, but keep in mind that zone 7a means an average annual low between 0F and 5F.  Trachycarpus would need protection often in this area. 

This is the Weather.com graph for Middletown, DE (near Mt. Pleasant)

image.png.fc75d8a2f6d04ac776a6762411899aea.png

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

@PalmTreeDude explained it pretty well.

Sabal 'Birmingham' is a good question.  The averages in the area look decent enough for Rhapidophyllum hystrix and Sabal minor, but keep in mind that zone 7a means an average annual low between 0F and 5F.  Trachycarpus would need protection often in this area. 

This is the Weather.com graph for Middletown, DE (near Mt. Pleasant)

image.png.fc75d8a2f6d04ac776a6762411899aea.png

7a can be tricky.  I'm looking at my temp chart and in my 7a the temps per year over last 18 years have been as follows.  

7a (5 years)

7b (4 years)

8a (5 years)

8b (4 years)

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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9 hours ago, Allen said:

7a can be tricky.  I'm looking at my temp chart and in my 7a the temps per year over last 18 years have been as follows.  

7a (5 years)

7b (4 years)

8a (5 years)

8b (4 years)

I mean you also have to take in account microclimates, climate change, and how far they are from the sea.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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On 2/6/2018 at 5:01 PM, Jotoqi said:

I am in zone 7a and i’m wondering if there’s any hardy palms?

We’re limited in this zone 7 but I’ve found Trachycarpus Fortunei to be a success but you will want to situate it with a good south face. It will take some afternoon shade but mine was located under a pine tree that gave it too much shade but great winter protection...we removed the pine tree because it was such a mess...the Trachy suffered a bit but recovered really well...now it’s mostly full sun and very happy. I’ve heard about the Bulgaria variant and I’d recommend that. Not sure if that’s not the variant I ended up with as it has been awesome in every condition since 2014...when I ordered it online I didn’t really know what I was doing, but I lucked out with mine. So for your trunking palm, get the Bulgaria...plant it in early Spring after frost danger has passed...do not tease the roots in any way...just make a nice whole, chop up the soil you dug out...maybe add a bit of loamy amendment but make your backfill mostly the soil it will live in...clay base is a good foundation...make sure though that drainage is good...mine is halfway up a 6’ incline so that helps a lot. Anyway, water well but don’t water to the point of drowning...give it a good dose then dig down with your fingers and see how it feels as the days go by...water when it starts to feel dry several inches down. I like to use a watering can, it really saturates the soil. I also like to add Molasses...maybe 1/2 cup per gallon every other watering in spring and fall...soil bacteria seem to love it.

00FFF361-EE67-4191-A259-439E397AABD1.thumb.jpeg.4c3c4d1877aac953725be36650960802.jpeg

Sabal Minors are another great choice. Mine are started from seed in Delaware from plants that have gone totally unprotected since 2015?? Not sure how long they’ve been in-ground but they flower every year so we’ll see how their offspring do. Given my south face, hopefully, “microclimate“ situation will get them growing but they grow so slowly as seedlings, I don’t expect much of a presentation anytime soon. However, the parent plants are growing like crazy...Delaware growing environment is all sand...my location for the seedlings Is all clay...will be interesting.
 

47074772-CE6B-4F29-8E88-4F8BE1A0EEA1.thumb.jpeg.4781c5cdf488dcd9f54075d5e53eac0f.jpeg

Get some Needle palms as well...they are the best and they grow in all kinds of light and soil...one of mine is clay/shade/evenly moist. It’s totally protected By holly trees and beautiful but slow growing and small.  The other is clay/sometimes wet/full sun and it’s exploding. Gotta watch the needles if there are any small children visiting...


ACF4BF19-46D4-41E6-B529-160FFBC65088.thumb.jpeg.60c7ccb10d16e877bdfdeef3ed940016.jpeg
 

EBFDBE8C-C51A-422A-BD07-89EE63015227.thumb.jpeg.5dc87f6d4ebc061995da7d364d9c4ad3.jpeg

 

Have some others...McCurtain Sabal (but I’ll die of old age before it amounts to anything) and a Brazoria which is a trunking Sabal but not so sure it can tolerate our zone 7 without a lot of protection...we’ll see...enjoy the palms. They’re very beautiful and rewarding to grow.

EAF74BB1-67C7-48E2-AE1E-71B5E71D91A8.jpeg

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