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_Keith

About Cold Damage and Northern Gulf Coast

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PalmatierMeg
On 3/12/2018, 4:12:30, PeterPalm said:

But its still growing...i thought if it was moving its still alive, no?

Sorry, I think it's a goner. Sometimes they are terminal but don't know it yet. I've had cold damaged palms take 8-9 months to keel over dead. They make a gallant attempt to grow/survive but ultimately are too damaged to make it, collapse and die. And any late winter cold fronts just add to their misery.

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Laaz

I'll bet it recovers. It should start pushing new fronds as the weather warms.

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Xenon

Wow, I wasn't expecting Galveston queens to look that bad. Any pics of the Ficus at Moody? They have several large specimens...really curious to see how the large F. macrophylla fared. It survived 2010 with very minor damage. 

There are/were some nice foxtail palms in the surrounding neighorhoods. Gotta get down there soon. 

Looks like South Padre was the winner after this winter. Coconuts not looking too shabby. 

Edited by Xenon

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TexasColdHardyPalms
11 hours ago, Xenon said:

Wow, I wasn't expecting Galveston queens to look that bad. Any pics of the Ficus at Moody? They have several large specimens...really curious to see how the large F. macrophylla fared. It survived 2010 with very minor damage. 

There are/were some nice foxtail palms in the surrounding neighorhoods. Gotta get down there soon. 

Looks like South Padre was the winner after this winter. Coconuts not looking too shabby. 

 Every foxtail i saw was dead, for sure.  0 foxtails will have made it. 

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Matthew92

This morning

WIN_20180315_053327.thumb.JPG.9bd9ff5c85

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ShadowNight030

That’s sad to hear foxtails in Galveston died. There were some protected ones around moddy gardens. Maybe they survived. I remember from last year I saw large plumeria and mangoes in ground. I hope they’re ok, although they were out in the open and probably died. Went to New Orleans for a few hours to do a few chores, didn’t really look around due to my time limit. But I did not miss all the queens. The Mexican fans and dates look fine with little damage. I saw a few Pygmy dates that looked horrible and the queens weren’t looking too much better. In Gonzales I saw a trucking bird of paradise that looked to have collapsed on itself. When at my cousins house I didn’t think to take photos, but she had Areca palms around her pool under her live oak. They all seem to have died. I know New Orleans has many rubber ficus trees, but I’m sure they all made it. Mines coming back from 16 degrees and many many frosts. 

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PeterPalm

One week later and it’s turning green and showing fronds...looks like the experts were wrong, haha ; )

61C450EE-B31D-4BC9-8A31-EA5C9145EAAB.jpeg

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_Keith
1 hour ago, PeterPalm said:

One week later and it’s turning green and showing fronds...looks like the experts were wrong, haha ; )

61C450EE-B31D-4BC9-8A31-EA5C9145EAAB.jpeg

It if can get a few leaves open and start producing food before it runs out of stored energy, it will make it.

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Sandy Loam

That's a sign of hope, PeterPalm.

Peterpalm's photo reminds of a related question that I had:

I chopped off some brown/damaged palm fronds after the big January freeze this year.  Even some spears were looking damaged, so I chopped those off too (even though they might have been green inside).  Was that a mistake?  Is it a bad practice to chop off the spear? (Not right down at the bud, but just above the growth point where the freeze-damage begins). In other words, does a palm need its spear to absorb sunlight, even if the spear is too damaged to perform that function?

I am still waiting for new growth to emerge on some of my more tender, tropical palms....with great anticipation. Some have started growing again and some haven't.  This January was bad. 

 

Edited by Sandy Loam

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weldertom
On 3/12/2018, 9:40:01, ShadowNight030 said:

It’s starting to get ridiculous the rate of palms getting cut down here. I understand the queen and majesty palms in my neighborhood getting replaced from 16 degrees, but people are cutting down Mexican fans and medjool dates. The other day in Lake Charles (I believe the low was high teens) I saw Mexican fan stumps that looked freshly cut, when the other Mexican fans are partially green still, but the queens next to them were 100% brown. A few more nice sized canary palms have been removed as well. I almost flipped out when I saw a mule getting cut down that have severe burn, but was likely to return from the green spear it had. 

I'm in Lake Charles on project assignment and I have seen the same.... I haven't seen a queen yet that didn't give up the ghost. I see people taking out CIDP that has green and i'm just shaking my head.

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ShadowNight030

I’m disappointed. I saw today my great grandmothers orange tree did not survive it seems. I remember when I was small running around in her backyard in the fall picking her oranges for her. Her tree wasn’t really that old. I remember her planting it in 2004 as a 3 gallon. Also, many Mexican fans it seems have died. I’m in 9a so these are supposed “bulletproof”. The first photo of the lined palms, all of them died from crown rot it seems (this photo is about 2 months old now, but all the crowns have collapsed now and show no life). Second photo, the middle palm is showing a little green, but the 2 on the sides had spear pull and are just there lifeless. 

9F8EE5F2-5330-4070-9FC9-CB8B9A491303.png

7DF6E1DC-F30E-44A0-8C01-A7D57FDE3E26.png

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mthteh1916
On 3/20/2018, 8:47:07, ShadowNight030 said:

I’m disappointed. I saw today my great grandmothers orange tree did not survive it seems. I remember when I was small running around in her backyard in the fall picking her oranges for her. Her tree wasn’t really that old. I remember her planting it in 2004 as a 3 gallon. Also, many Mexican fans it seems have died. I’m in 9a so these are supposed “bulletproof”. The first photo of the lined palms, all of them died from crown rot it seems (this photo is about 2 months old now, but all the crowns have collapsed now and show no life). Second photo, the middle palm is showing a little green, but the 2 on the sides had spear pull and are just there lifeless. 

9F8EE5F2-5330-4070-9FC9-CB8B9A491303.png

7DF6E1DC-F30E-44A0-8C01-A7D57FDE3E26.png

An orange tree there dies, and yet can take 16/17F elsewhere. It must be how close to the house an orange tree is and whether it has a wall or protection against north winds.  Again, I just don't get it. And I thought Robusta were bulletproof in 9a. New Orleans shouldn't have robusta die that is just amazing. Who knew 19F could do that.

Edited by mthteh1916

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pin38
On 3/20/2018, 7:47:07, ShadowNight030 said:

I’m disappointed. I saw today my great grandmothers orange tree did not survive it seems. I remember when I was small running around in her backyard in the fall picking her oranges for her. Her tree wasn’t really that old. I remember her planting it in 2004 as a 3 gallon. Also, many Mexican fans it seems have died. I’m in 9a so these are supposed “bulletproof”. The first photo of the lined palms, all of them died from crown rot it seems (this photo is about 2 months old now, but all the crowns have collapsed now and show no life). Second photo, the middle palm is showing a little green, but the 2 on the sides had spear pull and are just there lifeless. 

9F8EE5F2-5330-4070-9FC9-CB8B9A491303.png

7DF6E1DC-F30E-44A0-8C01-A7D57FDE3E26.png

Very strange to see, considering how many mature healthy queens I saw when I was in New Orleans last summer.

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ShadowNight030

These are pics in central Louisiana where I live. I found out recently we actually hit 13 degrees not 16 considering the damage we have. In Nola the Mexican fans only have some burn, I apologize for not specifying the location. Many mature citrus are leaving out so I’m not sure why the orange isn’t coming back. Only the graft is coming back from the trunk. I’m gonna have to see if I have permission to go take photos of the tree. 

Edited by ShadowNight030

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Sandy Loam

Do you mean the Alexandria region when you say, "central Louisiana?"

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ShadowNight030
Just now, Sandy Loam said:

Do you mean the Alexandria region when you say, "central Louisiana?"

Yes, I live about half an hour from Alexandria. The Mexican fans there don’t look too pretty as well. Sylvester dates look to be dead, too. 

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mthteh1916
On 3/22/2018, 2:12:34, ShadowNight030 said:

These are pics in central Louisiana where I live. I found out recently we actually hit 13 degrees not 16 considering the damage we have. In Nola the Mexican fans only have some burn, I apologize for not specifying the location. Many mature citrus are leaving out so I’m not sure why the orange isn’t coming back. Only the graft is coming back from the trunk. I’m gonna have to see if I have permission to go take photos of the tree. 

I guess that means the orange tree will become the rootstock. ugh.

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mthteh1916
On 3/14/2018, 6:29:06, Laaz said:

I'll bet it recovers. It should start pushing new fronds as the weather warms.

Just got an email from my friend on Lady's Island, SC.  With a low on that island of 23F at their airport (coldest temp) he lost all his meyer lemon trees, a lime tree and his original tangerine. Could it be his rootstock. I thought citrus was bullet proof as long as your low stayed above 20F. So confused by all this.

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ShadowNight030
1 minute ago, mthteh1916 said:

Just got an email from my friend on Lady's Island, SC.  With a low on that island of 23F at their airport (coldest temp) he lost all his meyer lemon trees, a lime tree and his original tangerine. Could it be his rootstock. I thought citrus was bullet proof as long as your low stayed above 20F. So confused by all this.

lemons and limes I was told are the least cold tolerant citrus. Oranges and grapefruit do ok at around 20 with little damage for short periods. I know I’ve lost a Meyer lemon at 19 degrees, although it was a newly planted sapling from a 3 gallon. I don’t have experience with tangerines, but I was told they were more like an orange in hardiness. Are they? 

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Laaz
5 hours ago, mthteh1916 said:

Just got an email from my friend on Lady's Island, SC.  With a low on that island of 23F at their airport (coldest temp) he lost all his meyer lemon trees, a lime tree and his original tangerine. Could it be his rootstock. I thought citrus was bullet proof as long as your low stayed above 20F. So confused by all this.

Could be many things. Around here we don't fertilize after the first of August so the trees harden off * go dormant in the winter. Limes are very sensitive to cold & won't take much below freezing before they show damage & die. If the trees weren't dormant, that is probably what killed them. Rootstock can be a factor as well.

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Matthew92
6 hours ago, mthteh1916 said:

Just got an email from my friend on Lady's Island, SC.  With a low on that island of 23F at their airport (coldest temp) he lost all his meyer lemon trees, a lime tree and his original tangerine. Could it be his rootstock. I thought citrus was bullet proof as long as your low stayed above 20F. So confused by all this.

Frozen precip. or duration of the low temps could have been a factor as well. Maybe other areas in that island got colder? With upper teens on the mainland, I have a hard time believing all the coastal areas had that much of a break.

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ShadowNight030

I think this may still be a little early but here is the survival so far on palms here from 13 degrees F in my area: 

mexican fans- large majority of these died it seems, but some seemed to have made it fine with very nice new growth

dates (medjool, Sylvester, canary)- almost every single one survived. Sylvester palms seem to have had the lowest survival rate, but the majority of them are pushing out new fronds

queens and majesty- every single one seems to have died 

mule- all lost all their fronds, but every single one survived with new fronds pushing out 

Chinese fan- lost all their fronds but all of them seem to have survived

Mediterranean fan- moderate burn in open areas, but under trees none burned 

sabal- no burn whatsoever on any

butia- burn ranged from none to extensive 

Sagos- easily the most planted “palm” in central Louisiana. So far I’ve seen few flush, but I’m sure they all survived. I have 4 4ft ones in my yard that are semi green and yellow

Tropical hibiscus- I know these don’t make sense on here with the palms, but they survived! I had no idea tropical hibiscus would survive these temperatures. They are for sure bulletproof in 9a/8b from personal experiences. Now maybe 8a with protection? 

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Sandy Loam

ShadowNight030, what genus of hibiscus are you referring to?  I have some hibiscus rosa-sinensis and hibiscus moscheutos.  Both were planted a few years ago and, since then, have experienced winter damage ranging from minor to notable, but always recovered and rebudded just fine on the same wood/tree structure.  Last winter they experienced no damage at all.  However, this winter was different.  It was our worst in eight years, for sure.  I don't see any signs of life on my hibiscus right now.  We got as low as 27 degrees F during that first January freeze, and down to 24.3 or 23.3 (two different parts of my yard) on the second big January freeze.   If 24 F has killed my hibiscus entirely here in northeastern Florida (Gainesville, FL), I am surprised that they are recovering well in Alexandria, Louisiana which experienced 13 degrees F, although I don't protect anything.

Are you talking about the native species of hibiscus instead?  (Not as pretty but more cold-hardy --- E.g. rose mallow and the other one, the name of which escapes me now)

Thanks.

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ShadowNight030

No the tropical ones you buy at any big box store. They always recover here. Many people use them as die back perennials. Give them till April/May they always come back. They only die if you keep them in pots. They also can grow about 6 feet from the ground. In Bunkie La there’s a house that has 2 reds, a pink, and yellow one. They always grow to the top of the overhang of the roof every year. Last year we had temps to 22 degrees for 2 nights and I dug mine up, and the large woody roots under the ground we’re still green. 

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Moose
On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2018‎ ‎9‎:‎59‎:‎54‎, PeterPalm said:

One week later and it’s turning green and showing fronds...looks like the experts were wrong, haha ; )

61C450EE-B31D-4BC9-8A31-EA5C9145EAAB.jpeg

If it don't end up mush and ooze, it will struggle until the next big front next season. Constricted trunk and ugly. Better to replace

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mthteh1916
On 3/24/2018, 1:29:33, ShadowNight030 said:

lemons and limes I was told are the least cold tolerant citrus. Oranges and grapefruit do ok at around 20 with little damage for short periods. I know I’ve lost a Meyer lemon at 19 degrees, although it was a newly planted sapling from a 3 gallon. I don’t have experience with tangerines, but I was told they were more like an orange in hardiness. Are they? 

Gordon on Ladys island clarified he had five night below 18f which seems incredible for that island given he is on the water and only a few miles from their airport which only had one night down to 23F. Marine corps air station further inland 21F. And Hilton head 23F and Bluffton 22F. Even Charleston didn’t have five nights below 18F. I’m really perplexed now. 

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Matthew92

Recently took a trip west to Mobile. Noticed the cold damage got worse from Pensacola and west. Unlike in my area, Phoenix sylvestris were 100% defoliated, most cycas revoluta completely defoliated, and even mule palms had at least 85% defoliation.

I spotted these mule palms at the border between Alabama and Florida. Surprised to see them so damaged. Looks like some will have to grow a completely new crown.

IMG_1528.thumb.JPG.eabe8a8a253b2ac78cbf1

IMG_1529.thumb.JPG.1a8f4c33379747a878ddd

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ShadowNight030

I’m glad I didn’t plant my little mule by my pool before December. It would’ve been toast. A few Sylvester palms here died, but that was expected. It’s hilarious. Many of them have no fronds, but are putting out fruit and flower stems. If the spear of a butia palm is burned, but the other fronds aren’t, will it die? Many of them in my area are that way. 

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Anthony_B

I can't believe how quickly some people give up.  3 months isn't nearly long enough to determine if something is alive or dead.  It isn't even "warm" yet in these places.  Ridiculous.

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ShadowNight030

Queen palms in south Louisiana are showing life

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_Keith

Apologies for no picture, but big cold hardy queen, after partial decaptitaion is pushing. Center is up about 9”. Maybe one of rare, if not only Queen survivor in La.  

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ShadowNight030

I have seen queens in lake charles and New Orleans pushing new growth. I’m not sure about north of these areas like Baton Rouge or Lafayette where queens are common. I’ve seen pics of large mango trees in a Nola courtyard that even look unscathed. Also here in central Louisiana many medjool and Sylvester dates are sending out flowers. 

Edited by ShadowNight030

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Matthew92
On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎39‎:‎31‎, Opal92 said:

This next palm looked like it would have hardly any browning a week and a half ago (the hard freeze was over 3 weeks ago), and now I wouldn't be surprised that it ends up losing all it's fronds. When this subdivision was built in about 2003-04, they installed a large Phoenix palm here (canariensis). It never thrived in this spot (thanks to over trimming, encasing in pavement, and soil compaction), but still was a noteworthy centerpiece. It was damaged but recovered in 2010 where it probably saw temps a little below 20 deg. 2014 put the final nail in the coffin. They replaced it with this Phoenix dactylifera which seems to be of less hardy stock than some others I've seen in the area.

WIN_20180208_143620.thumb.JPG.b361a5e35b

Update photo on the above palm I posted in early February. Not looking too good.

WIN_20180428_153653.thumb.JPG.479f03a265

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Matthew92

Regarding the discussion and photos on Yucca species/varieties cold hardness earlier in this thread: I recently found some trucking yucca away from the beach areas that saw colder temps (upper teens), and it seems to have survived somewhat okay without losing its stems.

WIN_20180428_154953.thumb.JPG.6513dc20da

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ShadowNight030

That date will look fine come August. All medjools and canary island dates survived our winter. A few Sylvester’s didn’t make it, but that was expected in the mid to low teens. I checked on my old garden (the new owner is fine with me going through it whenever as it’s a family friends) and my Yucca looks like toast. Didn’t like the 13 degrees. It’s sad as it was really old. It once stood a tall 16 feet before a wind storm took half of its height off. But good notes are that the 3 rubber ficus, Arizona yellow bells, pothos, papyrus, and birds of paradise (white and orange) are alive and sending nice new growth out. Scheffelera and my year old hibiscus bushes were confirmed dead last week. It seems only hibiscus that were older than about 5ish years made it. Also I thought i would mention the rubber ficus was planted in November as a 3 gallon. 3 of the 5 trees that were in the pot are growing. 

Edited by ShadowNight030

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Matthew92
3 hours ago, ShadowNight030 said:

That date will look fine come August. All medjools and canary island dates survived our winter. A few Sylvester’s didn’t make it, but that was expected in the mid to low teens. I checked on my old garden (the new owner is fine with me going through it whenever as it’s a family friends) and my Yucca looks like toast. Didn’t like the 13 degrees. It’s sad as it was really old. It once stood a tall 16 feet before a wind storm took half of its height off. But good notes are that the 3 rubber ficus, Arizona yellow bells, pothos, papyrus, and birds of paradise (white and orange) are alive and sending nice new growth out. Scheffelera and my year old hibiscus bushes were confirmed dead last week. It seems only hibiscus that were older than about 5ish years made it. Also I thought i would mention the rubber ficus was planted in November as a 3 gallon. 3 of the 5 trees that were in the pot are growing. 

Yes, it will be unsightly for awhile- it sure is a less cold hardy strain than other P. dactylifera- other ones in the area that saw same temps only had about 1/3 burn.

I don't see how in the world pothos would survive mid/lower teens- most of it is non-woody. What part does it sprout back from? And the rubber ficus- how much of that survived? Also I'm very surprised to hear that the bird of paradise was not killed outright (more so the orange species).

Also, the comment about an unscathed mango tree in a courtyard in New Orleans- I think that would only be possible if the courtyard was enclosed or maybe the picture you saw was old- I mean mango trees in Orlando were completely brown after a low of around 28 degrees.

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necturus

There's two large, trunking queens at The Great Outdoors, a nursery in Austin TX, that are pushing new growth. The nursery has a lot of trees, and the surrounding area is pretty densely populated, but still. No overhead canopy. Not sure what the low was, but Houston hit 20 and neighboring Del Valle hit 13.

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ShadowNight030
23 hours ago, Opal92 said:

Yes, it will be unsightly for awhile- it sure is a less cold hardy strain than other P. dactylifera- other ones in the area that saw same temps only had about 1/3 burn.

I don't see how in the world pothos would survive mid/lower teens- most of it is non-woody. What part does it sprout back from? And the rubber ficus- how much of that survived? Also I'm very surprised to hear that the bird of paradise was not killed outright (more so the orange species).

Also, the comment about an unscathed mango tree in a courtyard in New Orleans- I think that would only be possible if the courtyard was enclosed or maybe the picture you saw was old- I mean mango trees in Orlando were completely brown after a low of around 28 degrees.

Only bits and pieces of the pothos survived. They were buried under a layer of live oak leaves under a pergola. The rubber ficus are coming back from the trunks. Not even the roots which is incredible. 3 white birds of paradise I see in town, including my old one, are all coming from the ground. One is planted in the middle of an open yard. The orange birds are all fine too. One didn’t make it, but it was in a pot left out. And I have no clue about the mango. I would’ve expected it to have at least died back a good bit. My town’s mainstreet is lined with pots of asparagus ferns. They’ve even come back strong as they weren’t protected or brought in. I haven’t been into plants for more than a couple of years, but I’m surprised with the vigor some have, like foxtail ferns and agapanthus that now look like winter didn’t even happen. 

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Tropicdoc

My pothos is coming back and so is my monstera from 17 F. 90% of queens in my area are coming back. ......just reports from the battlefield.

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