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Alan_Tampa

2018 Florida Freeze

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Tropicdoc
37 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I'm sure they do. PTers in Cali likely feel the same. And it doesn't help that there are so many of us down here. But I think palm lovers in FL, TX, LA, GA, SC & other zone-pushing states didn't realize until recently how climatically challenging SE US winters can be. It's PalmTalk so we discuss palms: the good, the bad and the ugly. This winter has been particularly ugly for many of us. Watching your hard work turn to compost overnight can make anyone hysterical. Been there, done that. Talking about it with kindred souls is cheaper than therapy and safer than self-medication. And we all may learn something in the process.

Ditto

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Missi
16 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Since many of the palm growing regions in the US like Florida are more prone to arctic blasts producing freezing temps than otherwise comparable areas in other parts of the world, I have wondered if our fellow palmtalkers in other countries get tired of the forums completely erupting in US freeze damage hysteria every time a major system pounds us. 

Oh well! Don't like it? If that's the case, keep on scrollin'! :lol:

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Missi
14 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I'm sure they do. PTers in Cali likely feel the same. And it doesn't help that there are so many of us down here. But I think palm lovers in FL, TX, LA, GA, SC & other zone-pushing states didn't realize until recently how climatically challenging SE US winters can be. It's PalmTalk so we discuss palms: the good, the bad and the ugly. This winter has been particularly ugly for many of us. Watching your hard work turn to compost overnight can make anyone hysterical. Been there, done that. Talking about it with kindred souls is cheaper than therapy and safer than self-medication. And we all may learn something in the process.

Yes! :greenthumb:

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Xerarch
2 hours ago, Missi said:

Oh well! Don't like it? If that's the case, keep on scrollin'! :lol:

On the contrary in my case, I eat it up like crazy, I’m starving for more and more data on freeze damage. Unfortunately I live in a cold place now but have aspirations to live somewhere warmer, in such case I need to know what I can expect to be successful wherever I wind up.  And since I haven’t actually seen any complaints from others about the endless freeze threads from the US, I do suppose that they just scold on past them as you suggest. 

We have an easy going community here, room for all. 

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PalmatierMeg

I agree with that. Most of our palm woes are confined to the weather and/or freeze damage subforums and no one is forced to read them. But it can be a learning experience to do so for all of us. Because, believe it or not, unless you live in a perfect, unaltered tropical paradise that has never experienced cold, drought, disease, flood, earthquakes, landslides, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes or tsunamis you may yet walk a mile in our shoes.

BTW, when calamities afflict palm lovers in other parts of the world, I read the topics they post and I feel great empathy and sympathy for their losses and all their work and expense. I don't get irked because they complain. To everyone else, it's a bunch of dead plants - so what? Everyone here knows better.

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Matthew92
19 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I'm sure they do. PTers in Cali likely feel the same.

And then there's all the coconut (or other tropical palms) in California posts... :mrlooney:

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Missi
3 hours ago, Xerarch said:

On the contrary in my case, I eat it up like crazy, I’m starving for more and more data on freeze damage. Unfortunately I live in a cold place now but have aspirations to live somewhere warmer, in such case I need to know what I can expect to be successful wherever I wind up.  And since I haven’t actually seen any complaints from others about the endless freeze threads from the US, I do suppose that they just scold on past them as you suggest. 

We have an easy going community here, room for all. 

No no no, I didn't mean it towards you. Just towards anyone who'd gripe about our posts! 

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Missi
1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I agree with that. Most of our palm woes are confined to the weather and/or freeze damage subforums and no one is forced to read them. But it can be a learning experience to do so for all of us. Because, believe it or not, unless you live in a perfect, unaltered tropical paradise that has never experienced cold, drought, disease, flood, earthquakes, landslides, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes or tsunamis you may yet walk a mile in our shoes.

BTW, when calamities afflict palm lovers in other parts of the world, I read the topics they post and I feel great empathy and sympathy for their losses and all their work and expense. I don't get irked because they complain. To everyone else, it's a bunch of dead plants - so what? Everyone here knows better.

That's right! :wub:

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CB Lisa

I can’t imagine that anyone who truly loves palms (or any other plant of tropical origin) would find any problem in us Floridians (and others) sharing our angst through a thankfully rare freezing event(s)! There is much comfort in sharing and commiserating with others, and I for one would like to thank everyone who has participated in this thread! It’s been very interesting from a meteorological standpoint (y’all are the best weathermen around! Outstanding data and observations!) and the photos of damage and/or lack of damage to specific plants gives us all important data we can use while deciding what to plant and where! 

Good job, guys! And here’s to Spring....bring it on!!!!  (I know, I know...we’re not safe yet but no hurt in thinking positively!)  :D

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happ

North Americans share the Arctic. Am mindful of mid latitude 2007 Western freeze; it will happen again. The 2011 "mountain wave" http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/freak-gusts-during-western-wind-storm destroyed my roof and ficus tree exposing shade-loving gems including a beautiful howea. Really depressed I lost all canopies and an entire habitat. Nobody is immure from wind.  

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Alan_Tampa

Toasted mango and red kapok in background. Kapok is fine most likely.

20180203_103039.jpg

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Alan_Tampa

Fried jackfruit

20180203_102851.jpg

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Alan_Tampa

Syagrus shizophylla (dont grade spelling)

20180203_102217.jpg

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Xerarch
21 minutes ago, Alan_Tampa said:

Toasted mango and red kapok in background. Kapok is fine most likely.

20180203_103039.jpg

Think that mango will bounce back with some smaller branch dieback or you think it was serious? Ultimate low?

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Alan_Tampa

Probably any branch smaller than, say three fingers is toast. 

A garcinia aristata unprotected appears to have no damage, while garcinia xathochymus are all nearly completely defoliated. I dont think anything will die. 

Alfredii is undamaged . Ketiopsis and chambyronia are pretty fried, one was completely covered. Caryota obtusa, Indian form I grew from seed looks fine. Arenga microcarpa has fried leaves, but probably no real damage. 

Mixed bag, still not as bad as 2010. I am guessing around 27 to 28 for the low. At 5am it was 29, not sure after that. 

This is about 2 years of damage to erase. 

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Alan_Tampa
2 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

Toasted mango and red kapok in background. Kapok is fine most likely.

20180203_103039.jpg

Just a note on perspective.  That red kapok is about 60 to 70ft tall.

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Silas_Sancona

Agree with Xerarch,

the Mango should bounce back.. Wouldn't be surprised if your jackfruit does as well, albeit a bit skinnier. Its pretty amazing just how big Red kapoks can get once they start spreading out.

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Missi

Your Bombax ceiba should come back! They're fighters! Here's mine after Irma snapped its trunk (with all branches) in half and after several frosts! The trunk used to be 3 times this height and had a relatively massive canopy. (I'm working on killing back the grass/mulching around all the plants - killing that Bauhinia tree too! A picture of the purple Hong Kong orchid tree should come up when the word 'invasive" is searched :rant:)

IMG_0733.JPG

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Alan_Tampa
1 hour ago, Missi said:

Your Bombax ceiba should come back! They're fighters! Here's mine after Irma snapped its trunk (with all branches) in half and after several frosts! The trunk used to be 3 times this height and had a relatively massive canopy. (I'm working on killing back the grass/mulching around all the plants - killing that Bauhinia tree too! A picture of the purple Hong Kong orchid tree should come up when the word 'invasive" is searched :rant:)

IMG_0733.JPG

Frances knocked off 20ft of my tree in 2004, or 2005 whatever year that was. 2010 it dropped quite a few limbs some up to 4 inches in diameter. I'm not concerned with the tree, was hoping for a heavy bloom this year. The developng flowers look to have grown after the cold. That thing takes winter very well, but complete all at once leaf drop is rare for it. Usually gets sparse in winter then new growth about the same time as it drops last years. It's almost never completely bare at flower time,  like i see with some trees, and when is it seems to be when we got cold enough to damage the tree enough to not flower or abort its flowers. It also is just sad to see it naked. 

As for the mango, no leaf drop yet usually indicates it is just a little more than foliage damage. I' m hoping it is somewhere between what you guys are thinking and what I'm fearing. I love to be wrong in cases like this, but 16 years or so with this tree in this location indicates a little more than juat the foliage and smaller branches are damaged. 

The jakfruit has greenery below the roof line, i expect somewhere around 30 to 60% loss of mass. 

Edited by Alan_Tampa
Words

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Alan_Tampa

Missi, be sure to pick a central leader soon. Mine has a big fork I wish it didn't have because I didn't . 

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Walt
On 2/6/2018, 6:59:34, Alan_Tampa said:

Fried jackfruit

20180203_102851.jpg

Both of my jackfruit trees were frost damaged. My tallest, more exposed tree was 95% leaf fried. My smaller tree was less damaged because it was sheltered on the north side by my bigger jackfruit tree, plus some canopy from a tall queen palm. Also, the second jackfruit tree is a different species/variety of jackfruit. I don't know the species/variety of either one. I should be raking up lots of leaves soon.

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Missi
On 2/7/2018, 10:52:29, Alan_Tampa said:

Frances knocked off 20ft of my tree in 2004, or 2005 whatever year that was. 2010 it dropped quite a few limbs some up to 4 inches in diameter. I'm not concerned with the tree, was hoping for a heavy bloom this year. The developng flowers look to have grown after the cold. That thing takes winter very well, but complete all at once leaf drop is rare for it. Usually gets sparse in winter then new growth about the same time as it drops last years. It's almost never completely bare at flower time,  like i see with some trees, and when is it seems to be when we got cold enough to damage the tree enough to not flower or abort its flowers. It also is just sad to see it naked. 

As for the mango, no leaf drop yet usually indicates it is just a little more than foliage damage. I' m hoping it is somewhere between what you guys are thinking and what I'm fearing. I love to be wrong in cases like this, but 16 years or so with this tree in this location indicates a little more than juat the foliage and smaller branches are damaged. 

The jakfruit has greenery below the roof line, i expect somewhere around 30 to 60% loss of mass. 

I kinda just wanted to share the pic of my funky Bombax! :lol:

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Missi
On 2/7/2018, 10:55:20, Alan_Tampa said:

Missi, be sure to pick a central leader soon. Mine has a big fork I wish it didn't have because I didn't . 

Thanks! I was advised to wait until spring to pick a central leader. :o My rainbow euc looks like like this as well, plus little branches ALL down to trunk. In situations like this when new branches sprout all around the top, which would I choose to be the central leader?

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Alan_Tampa
4 minutes ago, Missi said:

Thanks! I was advised to wait until spring to pick a central leader. :o My rainbow euc looks like like this as well, plus little branches ALL down to trunk. In situations like this when new branches sprout all around the top, which would I choose to be the central leader?

I would wait long enough to see which one is fatest,  fastest and best seated on the trunk. Not the most tippy topist one, and most central. That tree will be 20ft by October. 

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Missi
2 minutes ago, Alan_Tampa said:

I would wait long enough to see which one is fatest,  fastest and best seated on the trunk. Not the most tippy topist one, and most central. That tree will be 20ft by October. 

Stupid question..How do I know which one is best seated? :blink: *EDIT* I would have assumed it'd be the most top and central. Oops!

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Alan_Tampa
16 hours ago, Walt said:

Both of my jackfruit trees were frost damaged. My tallest, more exposed tree was 95% leaf fried. My smaller tree was less damaged because it was sheltered on the north side by my bigger jackfruit tree, plus some canopy from a tall queen palm. Also, the second jackfruit tree is a different species/variety of jackfruit. I don't know the species/variety of either one. I should be raking up lots of leaves soon.

Walt,

My big one is ns-1, i have a smaller black gold (rumored more cold hardy) which is under a longan.  It looks fine for some reason. 

 

There is some variabiity in the jackfruit, my two are very common types. Ns-1 was one of the first named cultivars in Florida. 

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Alan_Tampa
4 minutes ago, Missi said:

Stupid question..How do I know which one is best seated? :blink: *EDIT* I would have assumed it'd be the most top and central. Oops!

It might be that one, it's just something to think about. Sometimes that topmost one is kind of just growing out a rather small peice of the edge where the damage was, but not always. So just get a good look and feel when it gets bigger. 

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Missi
19 minutes ago, Alan_Tampa said:

It might be that one, it's just something to think about. Sometimes that topmost one is kind of just growing out a rather small peice of the edge where the damage was, but not always. So just get a good look and feel when it gets bigger. 

Good point! I didn't think about that! Thank you!

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Alan_Tampa

Also, if you don' pick a central leader, you end up with an octopus tree. I have many octopus trees. 

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Missi
2 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

Also, if you don' pick a central leader, you end up with an octopus tree. I have many octopus trees. 

I just Googled that and I am horrified! :floor:

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mdsonofthesouth

Holy cow @Alan_Tampa your folliage looks like ours does in November!!! Save for the loblollies and other evergreens lol. 

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Alan_Tampa

Signs of life, 80 degree days here.  

 

20180210_092553.jpg

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RedRabbit
3 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

Signs of life, 80 degree days here.  

That's a foxtail? 

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Alan_Tampa

Yes, a big fat one. Planted from a 3 gallon or less in 2001

It' been making fruit for about 2 years or so. Survived 2010 without any long term issues. 

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Palmaceae

This was a wierd freeze as the south side near the house had the most damage while everywhere else had little to no damage. Here is my green malayan, kind of hard to get a good picture of it. But you can see the damage, while my other coconuts have far less damage. The fronds over the house had the most damage while the others just had minor damage. The one frond on the extreme right side of the picture is my yellow malayan which only one frond was damaged. It is almost like a cold pocket of air sat over this small section of the yard.

 

IMG_20180210_173517148.jpg

Front yard facing north, green malayan. No damage.

20180127_172953.jpg

Edited by Palmaceae
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kinzyjr
2 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

This was a wierd freeze as the south side near the house had the most damage while everywhere else had little to no damage. Here is my green malayan, kind of hard to get a good picture of it. But you can see the damage, while my other coconuts have far less damage. The fronds over the house had the most damage while the others just had minor damage. The one frond on the extreme right side of the picture is my yellow malayan which only one frond was damaged. It is almost like a cold pocket of air sat over this small section of the yard.

Front yard facing north, green malayan. No damage.

I've noticed a few inconsistencies as well.  The backyard, which typically receives no damage, had damage this time.  Even on the same plant, some sections were damaged that had more overhead canopy cover than other sections with more cover.  Some plants that were completely exposed to the wind have less damage than those that were sheltered.  Now that the temperatures are in the 80s where we like them, the amount of damage on some of the plants is disproportional to the length and severity of the freeze.

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Chatta

I agree bizarre. A lot of my yard is exactly the same way, same plant not same damage, some areas unharmed, others completely trashed... What is that tree in the foreground? Looks like a m. speciosa

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Zeeth

The palms in the courtyard at Tampa General hospital did pretty well. I'm attaching pics of their Adonidias and golden Malayan coconut, but there's also a bottle palm, spindle palm, Dypsis lutescens, and a few royals that were all undamaged. Davis island in general looks pretty good, and the Panama tall coconut I planted at my brother's house on the island is only slightly damaged. 

20180205_163655.jpg

20180205_163701.jpg

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Palmaceae
13 hours ago, Chatta said:

I agree bizarre. A lot of my yard is exactly the same way, same plant not same damage, some areas unharmed, others completely trashed... What is that tree in the foreground? Looks like a m. speciosa

The tree in the foreground is a Adansonia digitata, Baobab.  So in a hundred years it will be quite big :D.

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Chatta

I had no idea there were cocos there thanks Zeeth for sharing that. 

And thanks Palmaceae I can't wait ;) haha. 

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