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Alan_Tampa

2018 Florida Freeze

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Palmaceae

 Couple more,

Fiji dwarf, almost no damage, and very little on my yellow malayan and red spicata.  All in all not too bad for being in the coolest area of the Cape. And out of my 11 Dypsis species only lutescens showed any damage.

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Xerarch

Fair amount of damage for only 31, especially for D. lutescens which Betrock’s has listed as being hardy to 26, not even close. 

Since I don’t imagine you getting below 31 very often I’m encouraged by your outcome in his event. If all you have to do is put up with some mild burning every handful of years I’d say you’re sitting pretty. 

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Palmaceae
19 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Fair amount of damage for only 31, especially for D. lutescens which Betrock’s has listed as being hardy to 26, not even close. 

Since I don’t imagine you getting below 31 very often I’m encouraged by your outcome in his event. If all you have to do is put up with some mild burning every handful of years I’d say you’re sitting pretty. 

Thanks! I was not in the Cape in 2010 but it did get into the upper 20's, that would have caused a lot more. 

The palm that surprised me was my 15' tall Areca catechu, I can't get a good picture of it but just minor damage. Matter of fact another lutescens I have near the house and about 15' feet from the catechu has a lot more damage.

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RedRabbit
39 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Fair amount of damage for only 31, especially for D. lutescens which Betrock’s has listed as being hardy to 26, not even close. 

Since I don’t imagine you getting below 31 very often I’m encouraged by your outcome in his event. If all you have to do is put up with some mild burning every handful of years I’d say you’re sitting pretty. 

D lutescens are less cold tolerant than coconuts. The ones around here look awful from 28f. The only thing redeeming about them is they'll regrow from the roots. :/

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sonoranfans
On 1/27/2018, 3:56:42, RedRabbit said:

D lutescens are less cold tolerant than coconuts. The ones around here look awful from 28f. The only thing redeeming about them is they'll regrow from the roots. :/

Dont know whats going on there with yours but its an outlier.  My lutecens fared much better than any other crownshaft palm of similar size in the 2010 28Fx2 hard frost event.  They were up against a fence, but no overhead.  All cocos died in the local area.  my lutecens had moderate leaf tip bronze but came back fast.  I lost 3 royals, 2 foxtails, 2 foxy ladies and all 3 of my D pembana pulled spears, one died the other two live on today.  SO yeah I think lutecens is about 26F cold hardy, and that means it survives, not doesnt burn leaves.  Cocos?  Cocos have been planted almost everywhere in my area and a few mature ones survive on the coast in warm 10a areas.  There are tons of surviving lutecens on pinellas peninsula, its common up there. 

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Chatta

Went to Kopsick today looks not too bad. They were only 2F warmer than me I believe.

If anyone gets ahold of those coconuts before I do, hook a brother up please! ;) Or if you know the proper channels for me to go through to get them thatd be even better hehe.

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Zeeth

Thanks for the pics! First freezing temps since 1989 and most of the damage looks cosmetic. 

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Missi

Wow! That's pretty impressive! Thanks for sharing the pics!!

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Silas_Sancona

Agree w/ Keith, don't see anything that looks serious damage- wise in any of the pictures, though the overall degree of burn seen in the pictures is a good tell to just how cold the park got. 

Inspecting each of the pictures more closely, I see some obvious burn on a smaller Ceratozamia hildae ( to the left of the small Flame thrower which btw, has always looked a bit beat up in this spot.. Though it seems to look better than I remember)  Smaller Prichardia.. can't remember what sp. atm, ( below the huge Attalea, 1st pic.) looks pretty good. Imo, damage on the Variegated Foxylady is kind of hard to guage.. this specimen has always looked a bit rough at times, even during the summer. Same with the other taller Chambeyronia sp. near by, though it does look like it clearly sustained damage.

Veitchia look like they took some of the more significant damage, though not all that bad. Perhaps just perspective, the Jamaican twins by the parking lot seem to have sustained less damage than the Coconut out on the beach.. again, what I see in the pictures could just be lighting.  Any damage to the Kentiposis, or the Dictyosperma by the courtyard?

The one thing that stands out in the wide shot ( looking north/ north east towards the Tennis Courts, from the main area of the Garden) While burn on the Corypha (obvious but not serious) and Syagrus Sancona ( light burn, from what I see in the picture) stands out,  the supposed Archontophoenix  Alexandrae / Cunninghamiana cross looks flawless.. at least in the shot. Also looks like it's been seeding again..  thinking that is Saribus rotundifolius to left of the fruiting  Coconut?  Hard to tell but not seeing much damage on it.

All things considered, Carpys ( Carpoxylon macrospermum ) look great, and have grown a bit too:greenthumb: anyhow,

Appreciate the picts/ post-freeze updates. You should do a follow up sometime in summer. 

On a side note,  anyone know what's going on with the grass?  St. Pete Parks/ Rec. deciding to remove it from in between the beds?

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Chatta

There's a sign saying "Pardon our construction" I imagine its going back soon. Overall it looks much better than my garden haha! 2F makes a huge difference apparently. 

I have some photos from September, but will definitely be around this summer to take pictures again. I work right down the street from Kopsick.

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Zeeth

One surprise this winter for me was Carpoxylon. I have a few seedlings in pots in Tampa went through 28˚. One of them was completely defoliated and looks dead, one has some damage, and one is nearly undamaged. They're all growing right next to each other, so maybe there's some variability in this species. 

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Alan_Tampa

My yard looks like a Tim Burton movie. 

 

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RedRabbit

 

On 1/29/2018, 7:27:49, Chatta said:

Went to Kopsick today looks not too bad. They were only 2F warmer than me I believe.

If anyone gets ahold of those coconuts before I do, hook a brother up please! ;) Or if you know the proper channels for me to go through to get them thatd be even better hehe.

Not bad! Thanks a lot for posting all the pics! :D

8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Any damage to the Kentiposis, or the Dictyosperma by the courtyard?

There are some good sized Dictyosperma in downtown Tampa that were about 60% burned. I was disappointed to see them burned that badly, but I'd guess the ones at Kopsick fared a little better.

2 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

My yard looks like a Tim Burton movie. 

 

Pics?

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Chatta

Mine looks bad but not that bad
a. terrocarpo, bolivian coconut, ribbon palm, medjool, sylvester, christmas palm, yellow cane palm, Fox Tail, another yellow cane, red triangle palm, my coconuts 

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Silas_Sancona
37 minutes ago, Chatta said:

Mine looks bad but not that bad
a. terrocarpo, bolivian coconut, ribbon palm, medjool, sylvester, christmas palm, yellow cane palm, Fox Tail, another yellow cane, red triangle palm, my coconuts 

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Burnt, but looks like everything should recover well once spring warmth kicks in.. certainly could have been worse.To my eyes, the degree of damage in your pictures looks like what I remember around St. Pete,  Clearwater, and Town n' County area of Tampa after the 2010 freeze.  Assuming the potted Coconuts were protected during the freezes?  Nice property,  see lots of potential. 

Regarding Kopsick, I'm hoping to get my laptop back up and running in the next couple weeks and plan on adding my own pics from there in the thread you'd started over in the travel log section. That will also include pictures I'd taken back in 2010/ 11, as long as i can retrieve them off my Facebook page.

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Silas_Sancona
1 hour ago, RedRabbit said:

 

Not bad! Thanks a lot for posting all the pics! :D

There are some good sized Dictyosperma in downtown Tampa that were about 60% burned. I was disappointed to see them burned that badly, but I'd guess the ones at Kopsick fared a little better.

Pics?

Huh, didn't realize there were any Dictyospermum downtown ( in Tampa). Also hope they recover well.  Really are stunning when looking their best.  Miss my seedlings.. Thank you, desert blast furnace:rant:

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RedRabbit
20 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Huh, didn't realize there were any Dictyospermum downtown ( in Tampa). Also hope they recover well.  Really are stunning when looking their best.  Miss my seedlings.. Thank you, desert blast furnace:rant:

Dictyosperma are very rare on this side of the bay which is why I mentioned them. I think they were put in for a restaurant back in 2011 along with 4 coconuts. The coconuts are probably 80% burnt, but I think/hope everything will recover.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9520432,-82.4601983,3a,75y,154.23h,89.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srbvEmGA2RAgQLnACbIfY-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

1 hour ago, Chatta said:

Mine looks bad but not that bad
a. terrocarpo, bolivian coconut, ribbon palm, medjool, sylvester, christmas palm, yellow cane palm, Fox Tail, another yellow cane, red triangle palm, my coconuts 

Nice garden, thanks for posting the pics. :greenthumb:

 

 

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AnTonY

Ever notice how the Florida Panhandle gets lots of soaking rains with these frontal systems, while places just a short drive east on the First Coast barely get a drop?

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Eric in Orlando
On 1/26/2018, 10:05:07, Opal92 said:

Just saw a vlog of someone at Leu Gardens in Orlando. Quite a bit of burned foliage- more than I thought actually. Bananas, heliconias, ginger, even some large Philodendron or monstera.

Yes, quite a bit of burnt foliage. It was windy that night so tree canopy wasn't a factor in some areas of the Garden. Damage is odd. In one protected location a Satakentia and Carpoxylon have severe burn. So far damage appears minimal on the 2 Lemuriophoenix. The 3 Cyrtostachys hybrids also look good.

Its odd at my house in Altamonte Springs too. A small Gaussia princeps in a semi open location has no burn yet, same with a Hyophorbe vershaffeltii that I just planted in December. But Aiphanes horrida and Clinostigma savoryana are showing damage. They are both under tree canopy in a protected location. Euterpe edulis and Dypsis pembana look great. Leucothrinax morrissii in the open shows now burn yet but plants around it are heavily damaged (Tibouchina, Brunfelsia).

So far none of the Beccariophoenix alfredii at Leu Gardens show damage. I have 2 planted at my house. The one in the front is in an open, cold location. It is about 3-4ft tall and has had frost on it other nights this year.

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Matthew92
3 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Yes, quite a bit of burnt foliage. It was windy that night so tree canopy wasn't a factor in some areas of the Garden. Damage is odd. In one protected location a Satakentia and Carpoxylon have severe burn. So far damage appears minimal on the 2 Lemuriophoenix. The 3 Cyrtostachys hybrids also look good.

Its odd at my house in Altamonte Springs too. A small Gaussia princeps in a semi open location has no burn yet, same with a Hyophorbe vershaffeltii that I just planted in December. But Aiphanes horrida and Clinostigma savoryana are showing damage. They are both under tree canopy in a protected location. Euterpe edulis and Dypsis pembana look great. Leucothrinax morrissii in the open shows now burn yet but plants around it are heavily damaged (Tibouchina, Brunfelsia).

So far none of the Beccariophoenix alfredii at Leu Gardens show damage. I have 2 planted at my house. The one in the front is in an open, cold location. It is about 3-4ft tall and has had frost on it other nights this year.

Interesting indeed. I'll be visiting the area in March and will be interested to take note of any other cold damage. Here is the aforementioned vlog (by the somewhat famous Orlando area Youtuber "Timtracker"). Nice tour of the gardens, and those Lego sculptures are really neat!

 

 

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Zeeth
5 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

The 3 Cyrtostachys hybrids also look good.

This is good news! I've only hardiness heard reports from South Florida on the hybrid so some info from Central Florida is nice!

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kinzyjr
12 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Yes, quite a bit of burnt foliage. It was windy that night so tree canopy wasn't a factor in some areas of the Garden. Damage is odd. In one protected location a Satakentia and Carpoxylon have severe burn. So far damage appears minimal on the 2 Lemuriophoenix. The 3 Cyrtostachys hybrids also look good.

Its odd at my house in Altamonte Springs too. A small Gaussia princeps in a semi open location has no burn yet, same with a Hyophorbe vershaffeltii that I just planted in December. But Aiphanes horrida and Clinostigma savoryana are showing damage. They are both under tree canopy in a protected location. Euterpe edulis and Dypsis pembana look great. Leucothrinax morrissii in the open shows now burn yet but plants around it are heavily damaged (Tibouchina, Brunfelsia).

So far none of the Beccariophoenix alfredii at Leu Gardens show damage. I have 2 planted at my house. The one in the front is in an open, cold location. It is about 3-4ft tall and has had frost on it other nights this year.

How did the Jamaican Tall hold up? 

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Chatta
23 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Burnt, but looks like everything should recover well once spring warmth kicks in.. certainly could have been worse.To my eyes, the degree of damage in your pictures looks like what I remember around St. Pete,  Clearwater, and Town n' County area of Tampa after the 2010 freeze.  Assuming the potted Coconuts were protected during the freezes?  Nice property,  see lots of potential. 

Regarding Kopsick, I'm hoping to get my laptop back up and running in the next couple weeks and plan on adding my own pics from there in the thread you'd started over in the travel log section. That will also include pictures I'd taken back in 2010/ 11, as long as i can retrieve them off my Facebook page.

Thanks!!
I took the potted ones indoors, I left Crytostachys, a couple dypsis species, Arecea vestaria (sp?) ,my alexander palm seedlings, royal palm seedlings all in my greenhouse which I believe hit 40F inside. One of my crytostachys looks rough. 
I wish I had taken other potted things up there, I mighta lost my poinciana, and a couple of my tropical salvias that are rare and hard to get. :/

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Silas_Sancona
2 hours ago, Chatta said:

Thanks!!
I took the potted ones indoors, I left Crytostachys, a couple dypsis species, Arecea vestaria (sp?) ,my alexander palm seedlings, royal palm seedlings all in my greenhouse which I believe hit 40F inside. One of my crytostachys looks rough. 
I wish I had taken other potted things up there, I mighta lost my poinciana, and a couple of my tropical salvias that are rare and hard to get. :/

Royal or Dwarf Poinciana? Dwarf are tough.. many people here in the area slaughter them to the ground each winter, only to have them 6ft+ and fully In  bloom by May.  Royal P's. can be a different story ofcourse.. survival/ post freeze recovery not only depends on how big the tree was before being damaged( how much mature wood the tree has), but Ive also noticed alot of variability between individual specimens across the entire Tampa Bay/ Bradenton-Sarasota region. Some trees of similar size seemed to bounce back well while others just threw in the towel after 2010. I'd say to just monitor it and see what happens. If yours were aged seedlings/ smaller sized trees, they can regrow from the roots as well, or, so I have been told.

As for Salvia, many can come back from the roots, as long as they weren't frozen as well. Hopefully yours are some of those. Palms or not..  agree it's a total bummer when a freak freeze takes out the harder to find in one's collection. 

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Eric in Orlando
11 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

How did the Jamaican Tall hold up? 

All the coconuts did well. The JT has maybe about 30-40% burn on the outer edges of the leaves.

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Chatta
10 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Royal or Dwarf Poinciana? Dwarf are tough.. many people here in the area slaughter them to the ground each winter, only to have them 6ft+ and fully In  bloom by May.  Royal P's. can be a different story ofcourse.. survival/ post freeze recovery not only depends on how big the tree was before being damaged( how much mature wood the tree has), but Ive also noticed alot of variability between individual specimens across the entire Tampa Bay/ Bradenton-Sarasota region. Some trees of similar size seemed to bounce back well while others just threw in the towel after 2010. I'd say to just monitor it and see what happens. If yours were aged seedlings/ smaller sized trees, they can regrow from the roots as well, or, so I have been told.

As for Salvia, many can come back from the roots, as long as they weren't frozen as well. Hopefully yours are some of those. Palms or not..  agree it's a total bummer when a freak freeze takes out the harder to find in one's collection. 

I believe it was a Royal I bought from Jenees Tropicals in St. Pete... Heading to Miami on Friday, might be replacing quite a few plants... hahaha. I'm staying at the Kampong ;).

A lot of this plant I had was only propagated by clone and someone happened to make some seeds, I got 2 germinated and I fear they might be lost, however my larger specimens that were clones may survive.

Saw Several coconuts near Howard Frankland in Tampa totally burned up, some Royals near it were partially burned, Ill try to get photos next weekend maybe? Its at the end of Reo Street.

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RedRabbit
2 hours ago, Chatta said:

I believe it was a Royal I bought from Jenees Tropicals in St. Pete... Heading to Miami on Friday, might be replacing quite a few plants... hahaha. I'm staying at the Kampong ;).

A lot of this plant I had was only propagated by clone and someone happened to make some seeds, I got 2 germinated and I fear they might be lost, however my larger specimens that were clones may survive.

Saw Several coconuts near Howard Frankland in Tampa totally burned up, some Royals near it were partially burned, Ill try to get photos next weekend maybe? Its at the end of Reo Street.

Pics would be nice. Enjoy your trip to Miami.

Edited by RedRabbit
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Alan_Tampa

I'll get pictures of my plant death camp when I'm home during daylight. Get your popcorn ready. 

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Eric in Orlando
19 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

How did the Jamaican Tall hold up? 

Here is the Cocos nucifera 'Jamaican Tall';

 

 

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Zeeth
29 minutes ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Here is the Cocos nucifera 'Jamaican Tall'

What was the source for that one? It looks a lot like the Central Florida Jamaican talls I've grown (from Kopsick and from old trees on Anna Maria Island). The ones from further south seem to have greener petioles at that age.

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kinzyjr
1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

What was the source for that one? It looks a lot like the Central Florida Jamaican talls I've grown (from Kopsick and from old trees on Anna Maria Island). The ones from further south seem to have greener petioles at that age.

I bought 3 of them from Calusa Palms Nursery, LLC.  I kept two for me and donated one to Leu Gardens.  The nursery is located in Naples, and I get the palms from the owner at the USF Spring/Fall plant sales as well as the Green Thumb plant sale.

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Silas_Sancona
13 hours ago, Chatta said:

I believe it was a Royal I bought from Jenees Tropicals in St. Pete... Heading to Miami on Friday, might be replacing quite a few plants... hahaha. I'm staying at the Kampong ;).

A lot of this plant I had was only propagated by clone and someone happened to make some seeds, I got 2 germinated and I fear they might be lost, however my larger specimens that were clones may survive.

Saw Several coconuts near Howard Frankland in Tampa totally burned up, some Royals near it were partially burned, Ill try to get photos next weekend maybe? Its at the end of Reo Street.

:greenthumb: Enjoy the trip to the Kampong.. bring back only the extra rare stuff:D 

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Missi
13 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

I bought 3 of them from Calusa Palms Nursery, LLC.  I kept two for me and donated one to Leu Gardens.  The nursery is located in Naples, and I get the palms from the owner at the USF Spring/Fall plant sales as well as the Green Thumb plant sale.

The owner of Calusa Palms Nursery is my good buddy Marc. He's a good, good guy! His source for the JT coconuts is right near my office less than a mile from the Gulf ;) Actually, when they're in fruit, I have to make sure I go around them rather than under them when I head in to work from where I parked my vehicle on my way into the office! Don't want to be a death by falling coconut statistic! :lol: Here they are in their glory :wub: Pic taken from the 3rd floor of my office.

jtcocos.jpg

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Palmaceae
3 hours ago, Missi said:

The owner of Calusa Palms Nursery is my good buddy Marc. He's a good, good guy! His source for the JT coconuts is right near my office less than a mile from the Gulf ;) Actually, when they're in fruit, I have to make sure I go around them rather than under them when I head in to work from where I parked my vehicle on my way into the office! Don't want to be a death by falling coconut statistic! :lol: Here they are in their glory :wub: Pic taken from the 3rd floor of my office.

jtcocos.jpg

I agree, Marc is a great guy, bought several of my palms from him including some uncommon coconuts.

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Tradewinds1971

I've got two 5-ft coconuts (one JT, one MD) out by the street, alongside two 7-ft Beccariophoenix Alfredii which face north.  The official temp (on my weather app - not sure where it is taken) was 29F for at least a couple hours.  Cocos have about 30% defoliation, but the BAs laughed at the cold.  Zero damage, beautiful green.  Seeing a HUGE future for these where cocos sometimes struggle!  Hope to see these grown more extensively on a commercial basis.  Hard to tell apart from the "real deal", even though all 4 are growing together.  20-ft Veitchia Arecina by the AC unit has 85% defoliation, but 10-ft ones under a tree canopy are untouched.  (As was a 15-ft JT coco, also under the tree canopy.)  I was surprised that the Montgomery palms had less damage (15% defoliation) than the rows of arecas (40 to 50%).  Would have figured the other way around, as in 2011 I lost a couple of the Montgomery trunks from the clump, but none of the arecas.

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Matthew92

Darn it........ Looks like all mid to high 60's in the 10 day forecast. I was hoping we would not have that this early. Now it's just a race to see if things like citrus/deciduous trees leaf out before the next freeze. I guarantee we are going to have another considerable freeze this winter, even if it's March. I hate it when everything tries to leaf out too early only to be killed by cold.

Also: a friendly reminder: in quoting a comment that has a lot of pictures, try to remember to delete the pictures in the quote. (:

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Sandy Loam
On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎54‎:‎48‎, Silas_Sancona said:

 

Personally, I'm content with the ten-day forecast.  The lows are generally not very low and the highs range from the high 60s up to 80.  It's finally Europe's and Asia's turn to get some of the cold.  Moscow just got dumped with 43 centrimetres of snow.  Last week, Japan saw some of the coldest temperatures purportedly seen in 48 years.  France is now reporting that it is bracing for a cold blast with snow and ice/verglas watches issued, although I saw its temperatures and they don't look too cold to me.

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Missi

FL freeze 2018 thread has been inactive for nearly 24 hours now. :D That's a GOOD thing! :greenthumb:

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Xerarch

Since many of the palm growing regions in the US like Florida are more prone to arctic blasts producing freezing temps than otherwise comparable areas in other parts of the world, I have wondered if our fellow palmtalkers in other countries get tired of the forums completely erupting in US freeze damage hysteria every time a major system pounds us. 

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PalmatierMeg
1 hour ago, Xerarch said:

Since many of the palm growing regions in the US like Florida are more prone to arctic blasts producing freezing temps than otherwise comparable areas in other parts of the world, I have wondered if our fellow palmtalkers in other countries get tired of the forums completely erupting in US freeze damage hysteria every time a major system pounds us. 

I'm sure they do. PTers in Cali likely feel the same. And it doesn't help that there are so many of us down here. But I think palm lovers in FL, TX, LA, GA, SC & other zone-pushing states didn't realize until recently how climatically challenging SE US winters can be. It's PalmTalk so we discuss palms: the good, the bad and the ugly. This winter has been particularly ugly for many of us. Watching your hard work turn to compost overnight can make anyone hysterical. Been there, done that. Talking about it with kindred souls is cheaper than therapy and safer than self-medication. And we all may learn something in the process.

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